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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jul, 2006 04:33 pm
Advocate wrote:
Freedom, you are either quite ignorant or a bigot. The Arab-Israelis not only vote, but hold seats in the Knesset.

Israel's claim on the land goes back 5,000 years. When the UN created the state of Israel, there was no other country at that location. It was part of the British Mandate, and, before that, part of the Ottoman Empire.

Regarding Lebanon, Hezbollah hides among the people, even shooting rockets from urban areas as a sort of protection. Its offices are on the ground floors of apartment houses. Israel has been living with the rockets from them for 20 years and decided that it has to stop the organization once and for all. Hez doesn't recognize the state of Israel, but calls it occupied territory.


yeah riight ? - taking out of your a$$ Laughing

The results of a recent poll conducted in Israel are very disturbing to anyone who abhors racism and discrimination. The survey found that anti-Arab sentiment was widespread among Israeli Jewish citizens. The poll was conducted by Geocartographia for the Centre for the Struggle Against Racism.

The findings of the poll include the following:
1. More than two-thirds of Israeli Jews would refuse to live in the same building as an Arab.
2. Nearly half would not allow an Arab in their home.
3. 41% want entertainment facilities to be segregated.
4. 40% think Israel should "support the emigration of Arab citizens."
5. 63% consider Israeli Arab citizens a "security and demographic threat to the state."
6. 34% agreed with the statement that "Arab culture is inferior to Israeli culture."
7. 18% stated that they felt hatred when they heard someone speaking Arabic.

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/113786.php

--------------------

Israel Poll: 62% want ethnic cleansing of Arabs

Poll: 62% want Arab emigration

http://mparent7777.livejournal.com/8437523.html
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jul, 2006 05:02 pm
Do you have a source for that poll or any authentication other than interpretation by BLOGS that would appear to be anti-Israel?
0 Replies
 
NWIslander
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jul, 2006 08:25 pm
Israel
Freedom4free, your posts don't really deserve an answer, but I'll address this one point. You ask if I ever watch anything other than Fox news.

Just FYI, I have never watched Fox news in my life, except for one time I was stuck with it at an airport. I am a liberal Democrat and dislike Bush and all his ilk, especially the religious right lunatic fringe.

I've been around for quite a long time, and can remember very clearly the Arabs swearing to drive Israel into the Mediterranean many years ago. As Golde Meier put it, the Middle East will never have peace until the Arabs start loving their own children more than they hate Israel.

Don't be so quick to stereotype people, it just makes you look foolish.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jul, 2006 08:41 pm
Nice post, Islander.
0 Replies
 
NWIslander
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Jul, 2006 10:52 pm
Israel
Thanks, Lash. I love this bb; I'm sorry it took me so long to find it!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 02:38 am
Summary of today's British press (by the Wrap, one of Guardian Unlimited's paid-for services).

Quote:
CRITICISM OF ISRAEL GROWS

Robert Fisk, in Beirut, is impatient. "How soon must we use the words 'war crime'? How many children must be scattered in the rubble of Israeli air attacks before we reject the obscene phrase 'collateral damage' and start talking about prosecution for crimes against humanity?" Fisk's report laments the death of a single child, name unknown, "whose dead body lies like a rag doll beside the cars which supposedly were taking her and her family to safety".

Fisk's USP is subjectivity, but the Independent commendably prints his report opposite a dispatch from Donald Macintyre in Nazareth. Macintyre too concentrates on the deaths of children, shelled by Hizbullah. He says Hizbullah's rockets are now targetting Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs indiscriminately. A Guardian sidebar laconically notes that 63 Lebanese and four Israelis were killed yesterday.

The Times says that Britain is concerned that Israeli action against Hizbullah is counter-productive, and crucially is not denting the organisation's ability to fire rockets at Israel. The Guardian reports a Hizbullah claim that an Israeli attack on one of its command bunkers had failed. The FT quotes the Lebanese prime minister, who says the attacks are bolstering support for Hizbullah.

The Guardian also says that France has "challenged the Bush administrations's hands-off approach" to the crisis by calling for "immediate action by the UN security council to stop the fighting".

It's grim news everywhere. The Guardian also reports on the "forgotten war" in Gaza and the West Bank, where 13 Palestinians were killed yesterday. The Independent's leader column calls readers' attention back to Iraq, where, it says, there have been 5,818 violent deaths in May and June alone.
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 03:48 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Do you have a source for that poll or any authentication other than interpretation by BLOGS that would appear to be anti-Israel?


If you had bothered to click the link on the livejournal website, it takes you directly to a credible jewish website : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3248693,00.html

anti-Israel? my a$$ - you just refuse to believe the truth, even if it smashed you right in the face Laughing

Now i know why people keep mentioning the word 'moron'
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 03:54 am
Quote:
Freedom4free, your posts don't really deserve an answer..


I'll take that as a ' Oh Gheez my fellow jewish Blood Brethrens are racist scums and i'm speechless, i have nothing to say' Laughing
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 04:05 am
freedom4free provides a perspective that is non-existent in the American media.

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

http://www.washington-report.org/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

Talk about welfare. Let them finance their own f**kn religious war.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 06:33 am
freedom4free wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Do you have a source for that poll or any authentication other than interpretation by BLOGS that would appear to be anti-Israel?


If you had bothered to click the link on the livejournal website, it takes you directly to a credible jewish website : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3248693,00.html

anti-Israel? my a$$ - you just refuse to believe the truth, even if it smashed you right in the face Laughing

Now i know why people keep mentioning the word 'moron'


Well I may indeed be a moron, but I still only see an article talking about a survey. I don't see a source for the survey itself or who conducted it.

And wouldn't you describe yourself as anti-Israel? Have you ever posted anything favorable to the Israelis?
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 06:39 am
Foxfyre wrote:
freedom4free wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Do you have a source for that poll or any authentication other than interpretation by BLOGS that would appear to be anti-Israel?


If you had bothered to click the link on the livejournal website, it takes you directly to a credible jewish website : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3248693,00.html

anti-Israel? my a$$ - you just refuse to believe the truth, even if it smashed you right in the face Laughing

Now i know why people keep mentioning the word 'moron'


Well I may indeed be a moron, but I still only see an article talking about a survey. I don't see a source for the survey itself or who conducted it.

And wouldn't you describe yourself as anti-Israel? Have you ever posted anything favorable to the Israelis?


The poll was conducted by Geocartographia for the Centre for the Struggle Against Racism.
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 06:43 am
I would just like to re-post this for people who have missed it. Please read it carefully.

Quote:
The present State of Israel was set up in 1948 by European bureaucrats in a misguided and very short sighted attempt to appease and somehow compensate European Jews or Hitler's atrocities.Rather than return these Jews to the cities and villages they were disposessed from by the Nazis,and compensate them for their losses - European Governments had a better idea - lets just ship them all off to Palestine where we'll "expropiate" the land from the indigenous Palestinians and call it the new "Jewish Homeland"! The European politicians liked it and so apparently did the Jews but the only hitch in the scheme was that the native Palestinians,who weren't allowed to have any say in the plan, didn't like having their "Homeland" expropiated by unilateral and heavy-handed European "Decree".

Israeli politicians declare that Israel is a "Jewish State" and that its "right to exist" in Palestine is "legitimized" by the magical "Hocus Pocus of the Old Testament bible.In that case Christians and especially the world's 600 million Catholics also have a right to create "Homelands" in Palestine (entire State of Israel) as it is the land and birthplace of Jesus. (Incidentially Jesus was a Semetic ARAB, just like like the founders of Judaism were!!!!)

How well does International Law recognize the "Old Testament" or Bethlehem as the "birthplace of Jesus" as being a "legitimate claim" by any "religious group" on the "ownership" of the land of Palestine?

In North America the Native Indians in Canada and the U.S. have brought to court their legitimate "Land Claims" and they have won their cases in court on the basis that "they were here first"! The Palestinians can make the same legitimate claim - they were in Palestine and all the areas now claimed by Israel tens of thousands of years before there was a Jewish or Christian or Muslim religion.The claim of the Israeli Govt. to the land of Palestine by any standards of law is illegitimate.

Not only that but the Israeli govt. is bringing in "Caucasian" Jews from Russia;Europe and North America to settle on Palestinian land while at the same time they're forcing the indigenous "Semetic" Palestinians out and are bulldozing their homes!

Theres an easy solution to the Israel-Palestinian debate to determine who really "historically" belongs there.Lets have all the people of Israel and the West Bank etc. have a simple "blood test".From this it can easily be determined by "DNA" analysis who are the pure blooded (Semetic Arab) natives who are historically "indigenous" to that desert region and who are not!

K.Hawley



"It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief,if I may so express it,that mental lying has produced in Society.When a man has so corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe,he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime!" [/i]
- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 06:46 am
Quote:
And wouldn't you describe yourself as anti-Israel? Have you ever posted anything favorable to the Israelis?


No, because you and most people on here, probably haven't posted anything favorable to Islamics, i dont call you/them Anti-Islamic.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 06:46 am
Do you know anything about this organization? Are they neutral? Pro Israel? Pro Arab? Neither? Both?
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 06:51 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Do you know anything about this organization? Are they neutral? Pro Israel? Pro Arab? Neither? Both?


You make up your own mind, do your own re-search, maybe even contact them, obviously what ever i say you will NOT believe - (due to my credibility Laughing ) as if i care. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 07:01 am
Okay, the following is a pretty balanced piece compared to some commentary in the papers and on the nightly news this week. Craven and I had a good discussion recently on a concept of disproportionate response in the Israeli-Palestine conflict, and he provided some important insights, I think, in how Israel is perceived by the world.

So now we are beginning to see criticism of Israel in this conflict from various sources, and a frequent them is that Israel is applying 'disproportionate' force against Hezbollah and the Lebanese people are suffering disproportionately in the crossfire. One commentary I read this morning even suggested that it wasn't 'fair' that Hezbollah's 30 or 40 rockets fired into Israel were less potent than Israel's fire power.

What do you think? Is the best course overwhelming force, get the job done, and get it over with? Or is there such a thing as a proper 'proportionality in a war?

July 20, 2006
Fighting Hizbollah with 'Deliberately Disproportionate' Force
By Pierre Atlas

In response to Hizbollah's unprovoked cross-border raid last week, Israel has drawn from its formidable arsenal to attack targets in Lebanon. The goal is to defang Hizbollah--perhaps the most effective fighting force in the Arab world--remove from Israel's northern border, and get back the two Israeli soldiers who were captured in the raid.

There is an asymmetry of power in the fighting between the Israel Defense Forces and Hizbollah. Israeli ordnance has far greater lethality and accuracy than the rockets Hizbollah has used thus far against Israeli cities. The civilian death toll is accumulating at a ratio of ten Lebanese for every one Israeli. Even as Hizbollah has been condemned by some Arab governments, Israel's targeted destruction in Lebanon is provoking widespread anger and dismay.

There is an ongoing debate as to whether Israel's response is "proportionate," and if not, whether it is justified. Hizbollah was the instigator of this conflict. Its initial attack and its firing of over 1,000 katyusha rockets at northern Israeli cities are indefensible. But does this mean that Israel is justified in its chosen response? Might this be a case of "two wrongs don't make a right"?

Hizbollah is an unconventional enemy, unique in the world. It is a "state-within-a state" embedded within the Lebanese society and polity, yet it is also a rogue force that is well-armed, violent, and unaccountable to Lebanon's sovereign government. By all accounts, Hizbollah is more powerful than the Lebanese Army, and it has dragged an unwilling Lebanon into war with Israel to fulfill its own agenda, and perhaps the agendas of its patrons, Syria and Iran.

Yossi Alpher, Israeli strategic analyst and co-editor of the Israeli-Palestinian dialogue website Bitter Lemons (www.bitterlemons.org), suggests that "the Israeli response in Lebanon is deliberately disproportional."

Alpher told me that deliberate disproportionality "is an imperative when fighting a guerrilla enemy waging asymmetrical warfare. It is also [Prime Minister] Olmert's strategy for weakening Hizbollah to a point where the Lebanese government, perhaps with international backing and participation, can remove it from Lebanon's southern border and disarm it."

From Israel's perspective, defeating this unconventional enemy requires an unconventional strategy. Hizbollah's headquarters are in urban neighborhoods and it fires its rockets from civilian areas, making it virtually impossible for Israel to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants. Israel's response is to destroy those elements of Lebanon's infrastructure, including its civilian components, which it says house and sustain Hizbollah.

Israel is using the "opportunity" presented by Hizbollah's attack to take care of the guerrilla force once and for all. But given Israel's choice of methods, it is inevitable that innocent Lebanese civilians will be killed in the process.

Support for the IDF operations cuts across the Israeli political spectrum, especially as more rockets land on Haifa, Safed, and other Israeli cities. Amir Cheshin, former Arab Affairs advisor to Jerusalem mayors Teddy Kollek and Ehud Olmert and a reserve colonel in the IDF, notes that after years of relative quiet on the border, Hizbollah "violated the unwritten understanding between Israel and Lebanon by kidnapping two Israeli soldiers from sovereign Israeli soil." This new reality led Israel to change its approach to Hizbollah and take offensive action, rather than simply deter it with threats of retaliation.

World attention is focused, legitimately, on the level of destruction being meted out on Lebanon. But in assessing Israel's response, one needs to look beyond the asymmetry of power, to a second asymmetry in terms of goals. Israel's goals are strategic, while Hizbollah's are existential. Israel has the greater arsenal, but it is fighting an enemy that won't be satisfied as long as Israel continues to exist. In this case the asymmetry is reversed. And it begs the question: how should you fight such a group as it wages war on you?

Hizbollah is not just a "Lebanese militia," but is Iran's proxy army, with Syria as the middleman. Hizbollah's actions, and Israeli reactions, could spark a regional war. "I'm afraid that if the Iranian president allows Hizbollah to use its long distance missiles against Israel" and they hit Tel Aviv, says Cheshin, "very soon we will find ourselves in a third world war."

The Lebanese people are being squeezed between Israel and Hizbollah, two forces that do not prioritize protecting Lebanese life. But so long as Lebanon and the international community remain unable or unwilling to disarm Hizbollah and remove it from Israel's border, Israel will continue to use its arsenal in a "deliberately disproportionate" manner against the organization that proudly declares itself to be Israel's existential enemy.

It is time for the international community to step into the fray for the sake of the Lebanese and the Israeli people. But any serious proposal must acknowledge that there can be no return to the "status quo ante."

Pierre M. Atlas is an assistant professor of political science and director of the Franciscan Center for Global Studies at Marian College. '
SOURCE
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 07:08 am
freedom4free wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Do you know anything about this organization? Are they neutral? Pro Israel? Pro Arab? Neither? Both?


You make up your own mind, do your own re-search, maybe even contact them, obviously what ever i say you will NOT believe - (due to my credibility Laughing ) as if i care. Laughing


In other words you don't have a clue, nor do you care. I think your remarks are decidedly anti-Israeli, and as you are on the record as saying that Israel has no right to exist, I'll assume your source is probably of the same opinion.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 07:17 am
I suppose, sice now several completely Christiab villages have been totally destroyed, such voices as in your quote above are becoming louder ...even in the USA.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 07:22 am
Quote:
From Israel's perspective, defeating this unconventional enemy requires an unconventional strategy. Hizbollah's headquarters are in urban neighborhoods and it fires its rockets from civilian areas, making it virtually impossible for Israel to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants. Israel's response is to destroy those elements of Lebanon's infrastructure, including its civilian components, which it says house and sustain Hizbollah.

Israel is using the "opportunity" presented by Hizbollah's attack to take care of the guerrilla force once and for all. But given Israel's choice of methods, it is inevitable that innocent Lebanese civilians will be killed in the process.


It's always the same old story. Next they will say that those inside those houses are using the women and children as human shields. I wonder if they have a hand book that tells them what to say when they hit keep killing civilians.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 07:23 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I suppose, sice now several completely Christiab villages have been totally destroyed, such voices as in your quote above are becoming louder ...even in the USA.


They have? I have not heard that. I did hear yesterday that a Christian village had been hit accidentally but that Israel acknowledged the accident.
0 Replies
 
 

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