ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

@cicerone imposter,

It wasn't the Japanese who liberated Jews from Dachau. It was the American military. The Japanese are not really into helping others.

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@Advocate,

If you say so, it must be true. However, I would make one correction on Dachau; it was Japanese American soldiers.

There are ungrateful bigots all over this world.

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@cicerone imposter,

It's also interesting that some of the prisoners have acknowledged the fact that the first ones in the prison were Japanese American soldiers. They have since then honored them in the US, so I guess all of that was only an illusion for both the prisoner and the soldiers.

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@cicerone imposter,

You are real quick to point out when other people are wrong about something, but I notice you totally ignore it when you are shown to be wrong.

Why is that?
So, I will say again that you and I were wrong.
There was one Japanese-American tried and convicted for treason against the US during WW2.
So, when you and I said there wasnt we were wrong.

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@Advocate,

It wasn't the Japanese who liberated Jews from Dachau. It was the American military. The Japanese are not really into helping others.
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That is both true and very sad as when the Japanese became a world power in the 1900s there was high hope that they would be the defenders of the interests of the countries being taken over by the Western powers.

However instead they became if anything worst then the Europeans in this regard.

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@cicerone imposter,

Let us talk about today. It is my opinion that there still is alienation (aka, prejudice) towards Japanese-Americans, by some Americans, throughout this large country of ours. And, my thought is that it may be greater than any alienation towards other Asian groups, since the Japanese have WWII as very bad press.

So, if that is true, that there still remains prejudice towards Japanese-Americans within the greater American society, any Japanese-American that seems to be operating counter to the current social mores may be doing a disservice to the Japanese-American community in general. So, since OVERT anti-Semitism is now considered in poor taste by those that subscribe to an identity of genteel middle-class, an ongoing tirade (by a Japanese-American or anyone else) against Jews may be giving some the opinion that that person may reflect a maverick trait of that person's respective ethnic/racial group. That is how prejudice works; making generalizations from small sample sizes.

It does not matter how inter-married one's family is. What matters is how one conducts oneself in society. And, overt anti-Semitism that one finds unapologetic, may just have the old halo-effect on those of a similar ethnicity.

CI, in my opinion, you are doing a disservice to your Japanese-American community by voicing your opinion about Jews (as opposed to some Israelis) so vociferously.

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@Foofie,

American WWII veterans and their families who had unpleasant experiences with militant Japanese might harbor latent distrust or dislike of Japanese, but I am guessing that Vietnam veterans who had unpleasant experiences might harbor latent distrust or dislike of other Asian people while holding no particular negative view re Japanese people specifically. White people who have had mostly negative experiences with black people are more likely to distrust or dislike black people in general and vice versa.

Europeans who have encountered only the more rude or arrogant 'ugly' Americans or who have been taught that Americans are that sort of people will not have a favorable view of Americans. Ditto for Americans who have encountered only the more arrogant French or German or Russian or whatever.

The only negative experience I have ever had with Jewish people was in Jewish chatrooms where, once it was revealed that I was Christian, the people were less than kind or civil. (One emailed me later to apologize for the group and provided an answer to the question I went into the chatroom to get.) Had that chat room been my only experience with Jewish people, I might have a negative view of Jewish people as unpleasant and unkind sorts in general. A Jewish person who has only negative experience with sanctimonious or judgmental Christians is probably going to have a negative opinion of Christians in general.

I think such experiental judgmentalism is not racism so much as conditioning through experience. There is an irrational prejudice involved in racism as opposed to conditioning through bad experiences.

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@Foofie,

Foofie, You bring up some salient points about prejudice that I agree with, and I'm probably an outspoken advocate for those who are treated unfairly by any group. My childhood experiences is probably similar to many other Japanese Americans growing up in this country - and especially on the west coast, but I'm different than my peers in that I'm a lot more vociferous. Most of my peers went into introverted professions such as Engineering, Pharmacy and Architecture.

Even as a child, I had to wear eyeglasses, and for that requirement, I was teased by many others. I learned early on that if I fought them, they stopped teasing me. My older brother used to get gold stars and the American flag on his report card, but my report card had a note from the teacher that said "ci fights too much!"

When my family converted to christianity from buddhism, I learned that their teachings were conflicted with their actions. That turned me off to religion.

I've been told by several white people "why don't you go back to your own country!" These were adults when I was a mere child. Since my grandfather came to American in 1893, which country was I supposed to return to?

I have conflicts on issues of politics and religion with all my siblings, because they are christians and I am an atheist. I ask them how they can deny gays and lesbians the right to marry when they do no harm to them? They tell me homosexuality is a "sin," but they love them none-the-less.

At my age, I don't hide all my blemishes any more nor feel the need to. They are part and parcel of who I am.

I love all peoples, and have friends all around the world. However, that doesn't mean I select by race or culture whether I will speak out against inhumanity, bigotry, and/or unethical or unequal treatment.

If you bothered to look at all my posts, I have spoken out against those who are prone to mistreat anybody whether it's domestic or international. I also know that all cultures are guilty of heinous crimes against humanity if we look far enough back into history.

I also know that even minorities can be racial bigots.

I'm not perfect, but I will continue to advocate for the downtrodden as long as I draw breath. That's me in summary.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

If you bothered to look at all my posts, I have spoken out against those who are prone to mistreat anybody whether it's domestic or international.

Show us those posts, ALL OF THEM.
After all, you demand that of others, so lets see if you will go by your own demands.

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@Foofie,

CI, in my opinion, you are doing a disservice to your Japanese-American community by voicing your opinion about Jews (as opposed to some Israelis) so vociferously.
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Some comments here first the record of Japanese Americans servicing their country during WW2 is outstanding and the government and others went far out of their way to made that very clear after the war.

So the idea that Americans as a whole have a bad view of Japanese American because of a war fought 70 or so years ago is unlikely to say the least.

Having been born right after the war myself I never remembering hearing any anti-Japanese Americans comments of any kind. I did however hear a few anti-Japanese comments but even those was few and my family had members that fought them in the war.

Now CI have a problem with the Jewish people as a whole and seem to be a hater of the first degree however this is a small percent of the total population as a whole and I see little indication that the Japanese American community have this problem to any degree.

The fact that a poster here is both a Japanese American and a hater does not to me say anything about any sub-group he is a member of and I do not think that most people will be irrational enough to blame the whole Japanese American community for his mental health problems.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Bill wrote:

Quote:

Now CI have a problem with the Jewish people as a whole and seem to be a hater of the first degree however this is a small percent of the total population as a whole and I see little indication that the Japanese American community have this problem to any degree.

I guess you just don't comprehend the English language, so any attempt to make myself clear just goes on deaf ears. I won't waste any more of your time, and will cease responding to any of your posts.

There's no cure for stupid, and I mean that generously in your case.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Bill wrote:
Quote:
Now CI have a problem with the Jewish people as a whole and seem to be a hater of the first degree however this is a small percent of the total population as a whole and I see little indication that the Japanese American community have this problem to any degree.

I guess you just don't comprehend the English language, so any attempt to make myself clear just goes on deaf ears. I won't waste any more of your time, and will cease responding to any of your posts.

There's no cure for stupid, and I mean that generously in your case.

Here is an interesting link, since it shows how prejudice can be in a society that has few of the people that are the target of such prejudice:

http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw97-8/japan.html

Now I understand that you are very much an American, and your Japanese ancestry just reflects your family's history; however, since this link shows how some in Japan seems to have some fascination with Jews in a negative light, I have to believe that some of those Americans that read your postings might just believe that anti-Semitism has a peculiar gravitational pull towards Japanese in Japan, and possibly even Americanized Japanese-Americans.

I understand your family came here in the 19th century, and you are just an American of Asian descent like many Americans are today. I still think it wise, just for the benefit of the Japanese-American/Asian-American community to not be so vociferous in your politics, regardless of your being of a particular age (as you explained in your post).

Remember, there are many young Asians that are in communities that have not ever had an Asian population in their midst, and your rhetoric would possibly make some young Asian less accepted, if there is the spectre of Asians being just old fashioned Jew haters (since some of your postings can give that impression, if one just scans your postings, rather than read diligently).

Also, on the east coast there will likely be, if not already, a percentage of Jewish-Asian marriages. Perhaps, your rhetoric would make the lives of their children a little less pleasant?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie, One thing I've overcome from age is the fear of something happening to future generations of Japanese Americans based on my postings on a2k.

If I influence anyone, it'll just be a miracle of sorts.

People will read into my postings what they wish as it has been proven on many threads on a2k. I believe my ability to communicate is average, and most people who learned English (properly) should have no difficulty reading my stuff, and comprehending it without much confusion. Beyond that, it's not my problem.

FYI, this is a free speech country, and nobody, including you, will not slow me down or limit my rhetoric.

What I detest most is censorship.

That you would use words like "I still think it wise, just for the benefit of the Japanese-American/Asian-American community to not be so vociferous in your politics, regardless of your being of a particular age (as you explained in your post)."

I see your opinion as total bull ****! Do you get my drift?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I think you are making excuses for the impact your postings can have. You do not have to take my concerns seriously; I do not take your postings as valid rhetoric, since they are one sided in the strength of your condemnation, I believe.

On another thought, do you know that the Pals had a very nice standard of living until 1967, when the results of that war made Israel a policeman in the area (Gaza and West Bank). I guess in your paradigm of logic the belligerence of neighbors has nothing to do with the outcome of that war, including the lowered standard of living of the Pals, that for almost twenty years lived better than Arabs in the surrounding countries. How ye sow, so shall ye reap, I have heard.

Also, one's position on Israel has become the litmus test of where one stands politically on many issues. So, your position is being looked upon, by some, as just a reflection on an entire set of issues, not just Israel. Being vociferously anti-Zionist can mark one as a leftist idealogue today in the eyes of some people. Did you know that? Do you think there is truth to that correlation?

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@Foofie,

CLUE: I am an "idiologue." It's about ethical, legal, and fair treatment of all humans.

The past is history; I'm talking about the here and now.

The reason my opinions are not received by you as "valid rhetoric" is based on your fear that I'm right and you're wrong. How can my rhetoric be wrong when I advocate for fair treatment of all humans? Please explain why that isn't so. It doesn't matter how long ago Palestinians may have had a "very nice standard of living" in Israel.

What's wrong now is that Israel treats all Palestinians as terrorists and criminals; they are not. In a democracy, criminals are charged with a crime, defended in a court of law, and prosecuted to the full extent of the law for their crimes. The wholesale treatment of any group by another group is not justified in any democracy. That's what we call "racial profiling," and it's ethically wrong, legally wrong, and inhuman.

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@Foofie,

On another thought, do you know that the Pals had a very nice standard of living until 1967, when the results of that war made Israel a policeman in the area (Gaza and West Bank). I guess in your paradigm of logic the belligerence of neighbors has nothing to do with the outcome of that war, including the lowered standard of living of the Pals, that for almost twenty years lived better than Arabs in the surrounding countries. How ye sow, so shall ye reap, I have heard.
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As they also did provide a must needed labor source to the Israel economic to have to limit their interactions and as our friend complained about their freedom of movement, was very costly to the state if Israel.

Logic that seem not to be in great demand here, would indicate that you do not take actions that will also cause harm to your own nation unless you are force to do so.

After the freedom to cross over to Israel was greatly reduce the suicide bombings in their country also was greatly reduce to almost zero.

Now instead of being able to kill dozens at the cost of one of their number and a few dollars of hardware they can only launch random rockets attacks so as far as the safety of the Jewish state is concern the actions taken have work at some cost in money if not blood or at least not Jewish blood.

When and if they stop this blind hate driven attacks by any mean then the economic of the situation would cause the borders to once more be open.

The fools have the key to their own prison and perhaps some day they will used it.

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@cicerone imposter,

Japan stood for atrocities of all types, and you say it wasn't the people, it was the military. Thus, it wasn't the Japanese people who liberated Dauchau, it was the American military.

You ought to know that the Japanese military was composed of people, and run by people. These people were absolute beasts in every sense. There was no humanity in their treatment of non-Japanese.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Quote:

Japan stood for atrocities of all types, and you say it wasn't the people, it was the military. Thus, it wasn't the Japanese people who liberated Dauchau, it was the American military.

You ought to know that the Japanese military was composed of people, and run by people. These people were absolute beasts in every sense. There was no humanity in their treatment of non-Japanese.

As an American, Advocate, you really are in no position to be casting aspersions on other nations. There's been no shortage of brutality from the USA.

The Japanese did do some awfully brutal things before and during WWII but the Americans basically condoned such behavior, seeking to acquire the knowledge gained from all that vicious vicious brutality.

There's not much difference between the perpetrator of vicious acts and the accomplices to those vicious acts. In fact, in this case, the accomplice actively sought to hide the crimes [and did] and then retrieved for themselves the results of that brutality.

Quote:

After Imperial Japan surrendered to the Allies in 1945, Douglas MacArthur became the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers, rebuilding Japan during the Allied occupation. MacArthur secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731 in exchange for providing America with their research on biological warfare.[7]

The United States believed that the research data was valuable because the Allies had never conducted or condoned such experiments on humans due to moral and political revulsion. The United States also did not want other nations, particularly the Soviet Union, to acquire data on biological weapons, not to mention the military benefits of such research.[23]

The Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal heard only one reference to Japanese experiments with "poisonous serums" on Chinese civilians. This took place in August 1946 and was instigated by David Sutton, assistant to the Chinese prosecutor. The Japanese defense counselor argued that the claim was vague and uncorroborated and it was dismissed by the tribunal president, Sir William Webb, for lack of evidence. The subject was not pursued further by Sutton, who was likely aware of Unit 731's activities. His reference to it at the trial is believed to have been accidental.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

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@cicerone imposter,

When the facts wont support thier arguement the conserative republican people resort to bull shyt and strawman arguements. Its useless to present facts to them because they either deny them or throw up things that dont have anything to do with the discussion at hand. What has the actions of a war fought 60 or 50 or 40 years ago have to do with the present other than as a history to help us understand the present. The fact is that Israel is denying the palistinans freedoms, and stealing thier land just as the U.S., and England, and France and many of the past powers did. Dose the indescriminate murder done in the past excuse the countries of the world who do so today?

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Israeli soldiers killed unarmed civilians carrying white flags in Gaza, says report

Quote:

While relations between Human Rights Watch and Israel have never been comfortable, the series of reports that HRW has released since the war in Gaza has brought both Israeli officials' criticism of the group to a new pitch of intensity. They accuse the organisation of having an anti-Israeli bias, despite the fact that HRW has also forcefully criticised Palestinian rocket fire out of Gaza that targeted civilians. Israeli media commentators have tried to accuse the group of being part of a campaign to present Israel as "a primary perpetrator of war crimes". More recently the group's US and Israeli critics have suggested that a series of meetings to encourage human rights campaigning in Saudi Arabia was a fundraising trip underpinned by its record of criticising Israel, claims that the group has vigorously denied. The Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev referred to these allegations in an attempt to rebut the latest report and questioned the group's "impartiality, professionalism and credibility".

2 Replies

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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