ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Might well be - like between life sentence and hanging.

Well, at least local, regional and state Jewish organisations have a very different opinion here.

Here is the truth of the matter, notwithstanding shoddy reporting by the media.


August 11, 2009

Palestinian Fatah demands control of 'all of Jerusalem' before peace talks can be conducted with Israel



As if President Obama's attempt to hold Israel completely responsible for moving Middle East peace talks ahead wasn't unrealistic enough, the West Bank Palestinian party has now demanded complete sovereignty over Jerusalem as a precondition for any negotiations. The announcement came at last week's Fatah conference in Bethlehem, which also re-elected Mahmoud Abbas as its leader.

This bizarre demand reminded me of a BBC report I heard on NPR early last week about nine Palestinian families being evicted by Israel from their East Jerusalem homes. The report, in typical BBC style, focused on the eviction of some 50 people whose families had lived in the houses for 50 years, and one of the angry Palestinian evictees was interviewed. Sad story. The U.S. State Department has since protested the evictions.

But wait. One thing was missing from the story---the obvious question for any reporter (except those of the BBC?): Why were the Palestinians being evicted? The answer, which I discovered after 30 seconds of research: Following decades of litigation, the Israeli supreme court (and many courts before it) had ruled that the houses belong to Jews, who owned them before the Jordanians seized them in Israel's 1948 War of Independence. Indeed, the neighborhood had been Jewish for many decades before it became a spoil of war and a home to Arabs. The Arab paperwork alleging ownership of the property, the courts found, was forged. Hmmmm. That changes the story.

As you may know, Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Koran, and between 1948-1967, when Jordan controlled the city, no Arab leaders ever visited it. Yet Fatah in its recent statement claims Jerusalem is the "eternal capital of Palestine, the Arab world and the Islamic and Christian worlds." (Notice anyone missing from this list?)

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu clarified the Israeli position on Jerusalem and where people can live in it: "nited Jerusalem is the capital of the Jewish people and of the State of Israel. Our sovereignty over it cannot be challenged . . . This has been the policy of all Israeli governments . . . This says that there is no ban on Arabs buying apartments in the western part of the city and there is no ban on Jews buying or building apartments in the eastern part of the city."

-- factsandlogic.org

Here is an interesting piece on who owns/controls Jerusalem.


Who Owns Jerusalem"Can It Really Be One City, Undivided?
by Jeff Jacoby, The Boston Globe, July 22, 2009

Late last week, the Obama administration demanded that the Israeli government pull the plug on a planned housing development near the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood of Jerusalem. The project, a 20-unit apartment complex, is indisputably legal. The property to be developed"a defunct hotel"was purchased in 1985, and the developer has obtained all the necessary municipal permits.

Why, then, does the administration want the development killed? Because Sheikh Jarrah is in a largely Arab section of Jerusalem, and the developers of the planned apartments are Jews. Think about that for a moment. Six months after Barack Obama became the first black man to move into the previously all-white residential facility at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, he is fighting to prevent integration in Jerusalem.

It is impossible to imagine the opposite scenario: The administration would never demand that Israel prevent Arabs from moving into a Jewish neighborhood. And the Obama Justice Department would unleash seven kinds of hell on anyone who tried to impose racial, ethnic, or religious redlining in an American city. In the 21st century, segregation is unthinkable " except, it seems, when it comes to housing Jews in Jerusalem.

It is not easy for Israel's government to refuse any demand from the United States, which is the Jewish state's foremost ally. To their credit, Israeli leaders spoke truth to power, and said no. "Jerusalem residents can purchase apartments anywhere in the city,'' Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Sunday. "There is no ban on Arabs buying apartments in the west of the city, and there is no ban on Jews building or buying in the city's east. This is the policy of an open city.''

There was a time not so long ago when Jerusalem was anything but an open city. During Israel's War of Independence in 1948, the Jordanian Arab Legion invaded eastern Jerusalem, occupied the Old City, and expelled all its Jews"many from families that had lived in the city for centuries. "As they left,'' the historian Sir Martin Gilbert later wrote, "they could see columns of smoke rising from the quarter behind them. The Hadassah welfare station had been set on fire and . . . the looting and burning of Jewish property was in full swing.''

For the next 19 years, eastern Jerusalem was barred to Jews, brutally divided from the western part of the city with barbed-wire and military fortifications. Dozens of Jewish holy places, including synagogues hundreds of years old, were desecrated or destroyed. Jerusalem's most sacred Jewish shrine, the Western Wall, became a slum. It wasn't until 1967, after Jordan was routed in the Six-Day War, that Jerusalem was reunited under Israeli sovereignty and religious freedom restored to all. Israelis have vowed ever since that Jerusalem would never again be divided.

And not only Israelis. US policy, laid out in the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995, recognizes Jerusalem as "a united city administered by Israel'' and formally declares that "Jerusalem must remain an undivided city.''

As a presidential candidate, Obama said the same thing. To a 2008 candidate questionnaire that asked about "the likely final status of Jerusalem,'' Obama replied: "The United States cannot dictate the terms of a final status agreement . . . Jerusalem will remain Israel's capital, and no one should want or expect it to be re-divided.'' In a speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Council, he repeated the point: "Let me be clear . . . Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.''

Palestinian irredentists* claim that eastern Jerusalem is historically Arab territory and should be the capital of a future Palestinian state. In reality, Jews always lived in eastern Jerusalem"it is the location of the Old City and its famous Jewish Quarter, after all, not to mention Hebrew University, which was founded in 1918. The apartment complex that Obama opposes is going up in what was once Shimon Hatzadik, a Jewish neighborhood established in 1891. Only from 1948 to 1967"during the Jordanian occupation"was the eastern part of Israel's capital "Arab territory.'' Palestinians have no more claim to sovereignty there than Russia does in formerly occupied eastern Berlin.

The great obstacle to Middle East peace is not that Jews insist on living among Arabs. It is that Arabs insist that Jews not live among them. If Obama doesn't grasp that, he has a lot to learn.

*Irredentist: One who advocates the recovery of territory culturally or historically related to one's nation but now subject to a foreign government.

B'Tselem: The legal status of Jerusalem

Well, well, the Palestinians are now playing the same game Jews made for the past 100 years. All those promises of limiting settlements were all lies that was never in the deals between the Jews and Palestinians - and the US governments.

The Palestinians didn't go far enough; they should have demanded the whole of Israel, then negotiate from that starting point. Give the Jews an inch, and they'll take a mile. Under their laws, they can arbitrarily steal Palestinian lands at will, and that's what's been happening for some five-six decades now.

What's fair is fair. The Jews will get their undies all tied up in a knot.

There's no need to "think about that for a moment." How about all the lands stolen by the Jews from Palestinians? Does that count for anything?

Walter, That's how the Jews stole Palestinian lands; when property was vacant for any reason, the Jews took over the property as "abandoned" even when they went on vacation.

That takes more than a little bit of Chutzpah; it's unethical and it's stealing.

Thank you for being honest with your beliefs. But, do not be surprised if such rhetoric gives the impression of anti-Semitism to anyone that understands the definition of prejudicial negative stereotypes.

Can this be attributed to successfully assimilating into the popular culture of prejudice in the country?

Foofie, That may very well sound like anti-Semitism, but thems are the facts; just look at how the Jews of Israel have continued to steal Palestinians lands and expanded their settlements for the past half century.

Maybe the miles for an inch is too conservative.

Tell me where I'm wrong?

Just look at how the Jews have combat the stealing of the lives of Jews by Arabs. They have stolen Arab lives and Arab lands not granted them by the UN.

ican, Funny you don't show the casualties on both sides in Israel when your primary posts are cut and paste numbers on Iraq.

Advocate wrote:

Pollard gave info to an ally. It is a big difference.
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Countries interests are never in alignment 100 percent see the attack on one of our radio/radar spy ship by the Israel military cause by claimed error.

The ship was flying a very large American flag and at the time, the Israelis have reasons for not desiring us to know how well they happen to be doing in an ongoing military conflict.

There's no need to "think about that for a moment." How about all the lands stolen by the Jews from Palestinians? Does that count for anything?
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The short answer is no the longer answer is that lands are "stolen" all the time in the US case it was the south from Spain<Florida> and the southern border states from Mexico and starting with the East coast most of the land from one Indian tribe or another.

This apply to almost every piece of land on the planet as all had change hands many many times by reason of force going back before records.

If you can not defense your lands it is not or will shortly not be your land your only title that is worth anything is the ability to keep it by force if needed.

Bill, I don't know about you, but we purchased our home, and it's protected by federal and state laws. I also believe there are international laws against stealing of private property. No Jew can come and steal my property. Amazing isn't it?

You need to live in the present; looking back hundreds of years does nothing to promote current domestic and international laws which should be abided by everybody - even Jews.

You should look up the term "legal title." You might learn something about property ownership.

Until you tell me otherwise, I will assume the Arabs killed 500 Jews and the Jews killed 5000 Arabs.

Your private property was itself stolen from its original inhabitants.

Courts are nice but force over rule courts every time and if for example Mexico had taken up the German offer in WW1 and try to get the lands back that we had taken from them and somehow had done so then your deed would have been worthless for lands in that area.

As far as international courts that is also completely worthless without military force to enforce their judgments.

As President Jackson once told the Supreme Court enforce your own judgment as I am not going to do so and as a result the the tribe in question had a peace of paper from the highest court in the land that was worthless.

As long and only as long as the Federal and state government had the ability to enforce your deeds you are safe and not a moment longer.

And history does not stop dead in it track land is always changing hands by force had done so many times in the area of the world we live in and more then likely someday will do so again.

Yes I know you think the US is for forever but so far no nation had been forever and there is sadly no reason to assume that we will be forever.

Bill, YOu're doing it again; let's talk about current laws and issues. Going back in history only convoluted the issues we must face today. Past actions by any country has very little relevance based on current laws.

I don't worry about the US being "forever." My life span is already in its sunset years. Nothing I can do about the future of this world, so I don't spend time worrying about it.

You say "as long as..." but everybody lives under the same umbrella.

The only thing you are offering is history and the fear for the future. Don't you have anything better than to waste your's and our time?

You have now shown your true colors. "Give the Jews an inch ..." You don't both referring to Israelis. You are an anti-Semitic bastard.

You always insist on details of your statement, so see:

cicerone imposter

Re: Advocate (Post 3730252)
Well, well, the Palestinians are now playing the same game Jews made for the past 100 years. All those promises of limiting settlements were all lies that was never in the deals between the Jews and Palestinians - and the US governments.

The Palestinians didn't go far enough; they should have demanded the whole of Israel, then negotiate from that starting point. Give the Jews an inch, and they'll take a mile. Under their laws, they can arbitrarily steal Palestinian lands at will, and that's what's been happening for some five-six decades now.

What's fair is fair. The Jews will get their undies all tied up in a knot.