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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 06:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From Wiki:
Quote:
Suicide (Latin suicidium, from sui caedere, to kill oneself) is the intentional taking of one's own life. Many dictionaries also note the metaphorical sense of "willful destruction of one's self-interest"[1] (e.g., "political suicide"). Suicide may occur for a number of reasons, including depression, shame, guilt, desperation, physical pain, emotional pressure, anxiety, financial difficulties, or other undesirable situations. The World Health Organization noted that over one million people commit suicide every year, and that it is one of the leading causes of death among teenagers and adults under 35.[2] There are an estimated 10 to 20 million non-fatal attempted suicides every year worldwide.[3]

Views on suicide have been influenced by cultural views on existential themes such as religion, honor, and the meaning of life. The Abrahamic religions consider suicide an offense towards God due to religious belief in the sanctity of life. In the West it was often regarded as a serious crime. Japanese views on honor and religion led to seppuku, one of the most painful methods of suicide, to be respected as a means to atone for mistakes or failure, or as a form of protest during the samurai era. In the 20th century, suicide in the form of self-immolation has been used as a form of protest, and in the form of kamikaze and suicide bombing as a military or terrorist tactic. Sati is a Hindu funeral practice in which the widow would immolate herself on her husband's funeral pyre, either willingly, or under pressure from the family and in-laws.[4]


"Undesirable situation" may include, but not limited to, a) loss of hope, b) loss of freedom, c) loss of job, d) loss of loved one, e) loss of home, and f) anything that may cause depression.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 06:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Foofie, I'm not "lecturing" anybody. What I'm stating are facts from knowing and understanding some human behavior that's pretty much common knowledge - and in our news media. It's okay for you not to accept what I post, but the least you can do is explain why my opinion is wrong.

I'm stating a personal opinion; it's not "lecturing" except to people like you who misinterprets many things other than my posts.


While you have referred to those that are pro-Israel, as Israel apologists, your explanation of why suicide bombers bomb, is in my opinion like being an apologist for murderers. Have you heard any apologists for the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII? No one would be rude like that. However, there are rationales that I can think of, as to why it was done: one rationale is it might have taught Italian and German Americans to not show any concerns for their fatherland, since "look what happened to the Japanese-Americans." It could have been a good object lesson to those with emotional ties to the Axis Powers. And, Japanese-Americans being a smaller population in the U.S., it was doable.

So, now you may call me an apologist for the internment of Japanese-Americans, in addition to being an apologist for Israel. And, I am the one rude poster to be an apologist for the internment of Japanese-Americans.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 07:13 pm
@Foofie,
I don't need to be an apologist for suicide bombers. I don't support nor encourage them to do so.

Why do you keep bringing up what the Japanese Americans experienced during WWII? It has no relationship to Israel. It was "doable" because we looked different; we had Asian faces, and there were racial bigots in and out of government who took advantage of putting us in concentration camps without good cause - except that we "looked like the enemy."

Since you are so ignorant about what really happened during WWII, let me give you an "object" lesson. Germans and Italians were separated as "good Germans/Italians and bad Germans/Italians." How can any rational thinking person think that way except racial bigots? The majority of us were American citizens by birth. Not one Japanese American was ever charged with espionage. Not one suicide bombing.

Now, tell me; how do you equate that with Israel?

Your being an apologist for the concentration camps during WWII is worthless cyberspace; it means nothing. Your "feelings" or "opinions" about Japanese Americans in this country has no bearing on the topic of this thread. After all, we are talking about Israel, and not the US.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 07:27 pm
Quote:
Your "feelings" or "opinions" about Japanese Americans in this country has no bearing on the topic of this thread.
how true.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2009 10:38 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Israel does not control Pals outside the country. They have their own rulers.

Remember, they attacked Israel before Israelis set foot in their areas.


More fantastic fiction from the most reliable source of it on A2K!!
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 08:23 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:


Since you are so ignorant about what really happened during WWII, let me give you an "object" lesson. Germans and Italians were separated as "good Germans/Italians and bad Germans/Italians." How can any rational thinking person think that way except racial bigots? The majority of us were American citizens by birth. Not one Japanese American was ever charged with espionage. Not one suicide bombing.

Now, tell me; how do you equate that with Israel?



Easily equated to Israel's existence that resulted from the murderous racial bigotry of Nazi Germany, not the watered-down bigotry that you claim the U.S. had during WWII. Meaning, if the Nazis only put German Jews in internment camps, like the U.S. put Japanese-Americans, today there would likely be no Zionist state of Israel, and there would be around three times the number of Jews in the world. My making reference to the Japanese-Americans is that the supposed racial bigotry that they endured was the kinder, gentler type of racial bigotry that Americans felt, as opposed to the murderous racial bigotry in Europe. Even today there are Europeans that feel the extermination of the Jews in the Final Solution was a positive. How many Americans think it was positive to intern the Japanese-Americans? One? Two Americans? More likely zero Americans.

And, you have mentioned the different look of Asians. Sure they look different facially. So do many other ethnic/racial groups. And different does not mean lesser, since you do know that "ugly" comes in any ethnic/racial background; just as "beautiful" does. So, you can end the claim that the different look was the cause of bigotry. This was once a white Anglo-Saxon country. Anyone not from that background had to endure, and still does, a degree of alienation from those that "fit in" to the historical image of Americans.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 10:11 am
@Foofie,
God. you don't even know your own history. Zionism started long before WWII; the first zionist congress was held in the 19th century.

You do not know how to equate racial bigotry; there is no equality between Germany and the US during WWII. There is no comparison that can be made, because the prisoners of the US were not taken to prison for the purpose of extermination. That's the big difference; no equality no matter how you wish to make it so. In the US, young men and women volunteered to serve in the US military from our prisons; no such thing happened in Germany. In the US prisons, we were fed enough food, whereas in Germany many Jews starved.

Where's the equality?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 10:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
I am posting this to "prove a point" that I'm sure Foofie et al will miss.

Quote:
Mayors, rabbis arrested in NJ corruption probe
2 hrs 31 mins ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) " Two northern New Jersey mayors, several rabbis and other politicians were arrested on Thursday in a federal investigation into public corruption and international money laundering, U.S. authorities said.

Among the approximately 30 people arrested were Hoboken Mayor Peter Cammarano, who took office 23 days ago, Secaucus Mayor Dennis Elwell, state Assemblyman Daniel Van Pelt and Jersey City Deputy Mayor Leona Beldini, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Newark.

Also arrested in the money-laundering investigation were several rabbis in New York and New Jersey, the federal prosecutor's office said.

The international money-laundering was "high volume," it said.

Local television showed images of rabbis and the two mayors taken into federal custody in Newark, New Jersey.

No further details were immediately available from authorities. A news conference was scheduled for later on Thursday.

Court appearances for those arrested were to begin in the early afternoon.

(Reporting by Ellen Wulfhorst; editing by Mohammad Zargham)
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 05:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

God. you don't even know your own history. Zionism started long before WWII; the first zionist congress was held in the 19th century.

A non-sequitor, since many people believe the Holocaust was the impetus to Israel's coming into existence in 1948. Note it did not happen prior to WWII.
cicerone imposter wrote:


You do not know how to equate racial bigotry; there is no equality between Germany and the US during WWII. There is no comparison that can be made, because the prisoners of the US were not taken to prison for the purpose of extermination. That's the big difference; no equality no matter how you wish to make it so. In the US, young men and women volunteered to serve in the US military from our prisons; no such thing happened in Germany. In the US prisons, we were fed enough food, whereas in Germany many Jews starved.

Where's the equality?


I did not say there was equality. I said the U.S. was much kinder and gentler in any of its bigotry to any group, compared to the Nazis.

I think these thoughts now have closure.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 05:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I am posting this to "prove a point" that I'm sure Foofie et al will miss.

Quote:
Mayors, rabbis arrested in NJ corruption probe
2 hrs 31 mins ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) " Two northern New Jersey mayors, several rabbis and other politicians were arrested on Thursday in a federal investigation into public corruption and international money laundering, U.S. authorities said.

Among the approximately 30 people arrested were Hoboken Mayor Peter Cammarano, who took office 23 days ago, Secaucus Mayor Dennis Elwell, state Assemblyman Daniel Van Pelt and Jersey City Deputy Mayor Leona Beldini, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Newark.

Also arrested in the money-laundering investigation were several rabbis in New York and New Jersey, the federal prosecutor's office said.

The international money-laundering was "high volume," it said.

Local television showed images of rabbis and the two mayors taken into federal custody in Newark, New Jersey.

No further details were immediately available from authorities. A news conference was scheduled for later on Thursday.

Court appearances for those arrested were to begin in the early afternoon.

(Reporting by Ellen Wulfhorst; editing by Mohammad Zargham)



The "point" should come from your own mouth, since otherwise anyone could misconstrue what your "point" was.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 05:14 pm
@Foofie,
No, they do not have "closure."

Your claim that it's a non-sequitur doesn't apply; zionism was created for the primary purpose of establishing a home in Palestine. How does that not follow?

If there's no equality as you admit, why do you keep bringing up the Japanese Americans into this thread? That's a true non-sequitur.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 05:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Closure for me. Beam me up Scotty.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2009 05:20 pm
@Foofie,
Oh, goody, you're going to "disappear."
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:29 am
Interesting piece showing what Israel is dealing with relative the Pals.


Hamas copying Hizbullah prisoner scam
July 23, 9:25 AM


A few years ago, Hizbullah and Israel arranged a lopsided prisoner exchange -- a couple of Jews for hundreds of Arabs. Evidence was strong that the Jewish prisoners were deceased. The Israeli media ignored the evidence. It wasn’t until the corpses were returned, that the Israeli public learned they had been duped. The incident demonstrated the media’s unscrupulousness in behalf of its appeasement of the Arabs, and the government’s folly.



It seems to be happening all over again with Hamas. Hamas officials are being cagey about whether its Israeli prisoner is alive. Israeli officials are not asking and insisting. In any case, Hamas may be making suckers out of Israel, again (Dr. Aaron Lerner, http://www.imra.org.il/ -- Independent Media Research & Analysis, 6/28. The media fails to point out the immorality of Hamas trying to get terrorists released. If Israel followed Judaism, it would not release one for hundreds, who surely would perpetrate more kidnapping and murder.



Israel repeats its mistakes, because the Left is too imbued with the politics and ideology of appeasement to adequately admit mistakes and re-evaluate their ideology. They do not study the enemy’s ideology, but incorrectly assume that the enemy thinks like themselves. Arabs do that with some of their accusations against Israel, incorrectly assuming that Israel must be doing the wrongful deeds that they would do if they could.



When vicious Radical Muslim organizations find that they can pry their members out of Israeli prisons by offering dead Israelis, they are likely to kill them.

-- examiner.com
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 12:17 pm
@Advocate,
When can you expect any less when most of the Palestinians are living in prisons?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 02:57 pm
Richard Shulman, in the opinion peice that Advi copied and pasted, wrote:
Israel repeats its mistakes, because the Left is too imbued with the politics and ideology of appeasement to adequately admit mistakes and re-evaluate their ideology.

source

Shulman, like many of his American Zionist cohorts, writes out of ignorance of the "ideology" of the Israeli Left, and what informs it. Beginning in the 1980'2 the Israeli government began to release previously classified documents from the periods leading up to the creation of the state of Israel. Scholars such as Benny Morris Ilan Pappe and Walid Khalidi whose research into those newly released documents discovered the ethnic cleansing campaigns of the Zionist forces against the Palestinian populations in the areas that were under the former's control in the period leading up to the Nakba lead to the revision and correction of a lot of the earlier Zionist history, and exposed it as mere propaganda. The revelation of the circumstances underlying the creation of the state of Israel lead to the introspection of the Israeli public concerning the state's treatment of the Palestinian peoples. With that said, the Israeli Left is comprised of people who soberly recount the state's unsavory history along with those who would seek to sincerely redress the wrongs perpetrated against the Palestinians by the state, and, as exemplified by the historian Benny Morris who was among the first to expose the awful truths behind the creation of the state of Israel, those who on the one hand accept the state's past, but on the other hand would that the state perpetrate further crimes against humanity in completely cleansing the state of Israel of all of its Palestinian population in order to create a more pure, "Jewish" state.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 03:21 pm
@InfraBlue,
They also use a good defense by saying that the Palestinians are the ones who would deny Jews a home in Israel.

The problem is that most Israel apologists believe only one side and ignore the other as they continue the expansion of their settlements on Palestinian lands.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I see. The Pals can attack Israel proper with impunity, whenever they are ready, but Israelis must not expand their settlements or neighborhoods. The Pals have forfeited land through their actions.

Infra, no Jew could survive in the WB and Gaza. Jews would be murdered forthwith. But Pals and other nationalities live in peace with full rights in Israel.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I see. The Pals can attack Israel proper with impunity, whenever they are ready, but Israelis must not expand their settlements or neighborhoods. The Pals have forfeited land through their actions.

Infra, no Jew could survive in the WB and Gaza. Jews would be murdered forthwith. But Pals and other nationalities live in peace with full rights in Israel.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:43 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate, You really don't listen do you? I said I do not approve of the Palestinians killing Israelis. Is that too difficult for you to understand?

What I have said is that I understand under the circumstances, why they resort to suicide bombings and rockets against Israelis.

Most Palestinians live in prison; they do not have many freedoms such as use of all the roads in Israel, and are not permitted to visit the settlements. Often times, they are required to take a long detour around settlements and road blockages to get from one place to another. Israelis continue to steal their land to expand their settlements.

I understand why they would commit suicide and shoot rockets at Israelis. I don't condone it, but I understand it.

When any person losses hope of having freedom, jobs, and loss of property without any legal rights, they get into depression, and commit these crimes.

I understand fully why they do it. I wonder if the situations were reversed for the Israelis, if they wouldn't commit the same crimes.

If they resorted to the same things the Palestinians are doing, I'll also understand the reasons why. I still will not condone it.
0 Replies
 
 

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