ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Now all you bibliophile Zionists, with your reading suggestions (my library only has that Paul Johnson book in Reference at the moment, btw) here's one for your Christmas Stocking suggestions to your nearest and dearest:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jun/28/balfour-and-weizmann-geoffrey-lewis

The declaration that changed history for ever

Avi Shlaim enjoys an elegant and insightful account of the unlikely partnership behind the foundation of the state of Israel.

Ernest Bevin, Labour's postwar foreign secretary, once told the Zionist leader, David Ben-Gurion, that the Balfour Declaration of 1917 was the worst mistake in western foreign policy in the first half of the 20th century. From the perspective of British interests, it was certainly a strategic blunder. It committed Britain to support the establishment of a "national home" for the Jewish people in Palestine when the Jews constituted less than 10% of the population. Britain's promise paved the way for the establishment of the state of Israel, but also unleashed one of the most bitter conflicts of modern times.

Balfour and Weizmann: The Zionist, the Zealot and the Emergence of Israel by Geoffrey Lewis pp203, Continuum, £20 Buy Balfour and Weizmann at the Guardian bookshop The story of the Balfour Declaration has been told many times. Geoffrey Lewis has chosen to focus only on the part played by the two principal architects of the declaration: Arthur Balfour and Chaim Weizmann, the Gentile Zionist and the ardent Jewish nationalist. The result is a perceptive, elegantly written and fair-minded book.

At first sight, Balfour seems an unlikely candidate for the role of mover and shaker. He was a languid aristocrat with a philosophical turn of mind. A popular saying went: "If you want nothing done, Balfour is your man." Yet he was moved by a strong conviction that the case for a Jewish homeland in Palestine was wholly exceptional and that it overrode the natural right of the Arabs to self-determination..............................

1 Reply

@McTag,

You will be surprised to know that I agree with the notion that the Balfour Declaration was a big mistake. This is because the Muslims will not tolerate infidels in their midst, whether Jew, Christian, et al. We now have Israel in the untenable situation of being located in the midst of a billion enemy Muslims. There should have been an effort to locate a Jewish homeland somewhere else on the planet. We should have partitioned Montana for this purpose.

3 Replies

@Advocate,

Idaho would have been perfect.

0 Replies

@Advocate,

Well yes. If you read the rest of that link, it is stated that Balfour tried to get Weizmann to consider other places (and he suggested a few). But of course the prize and the magnet for the Zionists was Jerusalem.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I don't give a crap if you feel superior to me; that's a given. It's when you think you and your kind are superior to everybody else.

I never talkied about Jews being superior to everyone else. I talked about different cultures being superior to other cultures, in context of a modern, technological society. I do think the Jewish culture has some superior traits when it comes to valuing education and achievement. Not all cultures seem to value education in the same way, I believe.

But, I do believe individuals can be superior to others. I can be inferior to some people, based on certain traits they have, and I do not. Or, I can be superior to some people, based on certain traits, that I have, and they do not.

I am talking cultures when it comes to Jews. I am talking about individuals when it comes to individuals.

But, it does not bother me when someone thinks, or is, superior to me in some traits. Even if they know it, and act superior. Perhaps, they deserve to act superior. If people acting superior bothers you, how do you get through this life without daily aggravation?

But, I think this whole topic has been hashed out pretty well. My synopis, if I understood your posts, is that you do not like people thinking they are "inherently" superior to others, and I do not mind if people think they are "inherently" superior to others, or myself. So, you need not harp on whether Jews, have any "collective" feeling of superiority. If that would even be true, I do not think it would be for everyone, since I do believe most of the secular Jews I have known are very respectful of those that are considered upper class. Perhaps, as a group, secular Jews (that is what I am) might be fairly class conscious. Perhaps, it is my class consciousness that bothers you? If I could say you were upper class, then we might not have gotten off on this discussion, since I would have been sounding quite deferent in my posts? Since you dismiss your height as a relevant point, I would guess you might dismiss class as a relevant point too. So, I think we have covered all bases on this topic of superiority. As they say in the military, there is no socializing between the ranks.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Your post is a total lie. Without your feeling of superiority, you wouldn't have to mention all the accomplishments by Jews as you have done on this thread.

It is ethnic pride I was showing. Last I heard there should be nothing wrong with ethnic pride. If the discoverers of both polio vaccines were Jewish, and if many German physicists were Jewish, etc., etc. what does one do if one has ethnic pride? You know, like gays today have gay pride. That does not make me feel gays feel superior to straight people. And, if gays did feel superior to straight people, why would I care? My level of self-esteem can handle that!

And, if somewhere there is a Jew that does believe that Jews are "inherently" superior (in some ways), why should anyone care?

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

You will be surprised to know that I agree with the notion that the Balfour Declaration was a big mistake. This is because the Muslims will not tolerate infidels in their midst, whether Jew, Christian, et al. We now have Israel in the untenable situation of being located in the midst of a billion enemy Muslims. There should have been an effort to locate a Jewish homeland somewhere else on the planet. We should have partitioned Montana for this purpose.

Or, the Castro district of San Francisco. All the gays could go back to their homophobic hick towns that they left.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

I know many smart people - around the world - and none expresses their culture like you do in terms of "we are superior" to others. That's hogwash! I look at the individual, and how they treat others.

Even many well educated people are not always "street smart" or have knowledge in other fields then their own. It's not a matter of who's smarter than me?

I have worked with two nonprofit organizations that work with the developmentally disabled, and many of their clients have more humanity, heart and smarts than many so-called educated folks.

1 Reply

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Well yes. If you read the rest of that link, it is stated that Balfour tried to get Weizmann to consider other places (and he suggested a few). But of course the prize and the magnet for the Zionists was Jerusalem.

Perhaps, Zionism reflects a Victorian Freudian reaction to Jewish boys finding shiksas attractive? No shiksas in a Jewish homeland.

0 Replies

@Foofie,

Foofie, Do you see many people on a2k expressing their ethnic pride like you?

It's usually mentioned casually as an aside by most people, but you post whole paragraphs ad nauseam about your culture. It's tiresome and a bore.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I know many smart people - around the world - and none expresses their culture like you do in terms of "we are superior" to others. That's hogwash! I look at the individual, and how they treat others.

Even many well educated people are not always "street smart" or have knowledge in other fields then their own. It's not a matter of who's smarter than me?

I have worked with two nonprofit organizations that work with the developmentally disabled, and many of their clients have more humanity, heart and smarts than many so-called educated folks.

Quite true. And, repeating myself, I am talking cultures. There is a Gentile culture you know. And, there is Jewish culture. The Gentile culture has many facets I appreciate, but I cannot think it is superior to the Jewish culture, since the Gentile culture produces a nice (mode) population in the middle of the Bell Curve.

And, there is no such thing as equality in cultures, within a context. The Jewish culture would not ready a person to survive on Mount Everest. Perhaps, there are cultures that would?

0 Replies

@Foofie,

Foofie, Is this your Jewishness again? Who the hell are you to tell strangers to return to their hick towns? This is a free country where anyone has the freedom of mobility from any place in the USA without being told by the likes of you to return from where they came.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Foofie, Do you see many people on a2k expressing their ethnic pride like you?

It's usually mentioned casually as an aside by most people, but you post whole paragraphs ad nauseam about your culture. It's tiresome and a bore.

Then do not read it. I find your postings about family and career, and other personal aspects of your life extraneous to the thread. But, perhaps you like to talk about yourself personally. If I were you, I might be writing whole paragraphs ad nauseam about assimilated Asians living on the west coast? If you do not like Foofie, ignore Foofie. I have as much right to bore readers, as you have to have readers learn about personal aspects of your life.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Foofie, Is this your Jewishness again? Who the hell are you to tell strangers to return to their hick towns? This is a free country where anyone has the freedom of mobility from any place in the USA without being told by the likes of you to return from where they came.

"All the gays could go back to their homophobic hick towns that they left. " That is not SENDING anyone anywhere. If the Castro District was made a Zionist State, the gays would have to leave. I only said, "the gays COULD go back..." Perhaps, they would want to move to Vegas. It was only one of many options, if the Castro District became a Zionist State.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Here you go again; now, why won't I want to read what you write to challenge it? This is an open forum; and we are allowed to challenge anything anybody posts on any thread.

I totally disagree with your "superiority complex," and will continue to challenge them. Don't expect me to "go away," because I won't.

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@McTag,

Quote:

Re: sangiusto (Post 3688688)

Quote:
McTag-I think you would indeed enjoy Johnson's History of the Jews.

Thank you, I'll check it out.

Hefty paperback, I had a lengthy look in our library this morning. Quite a work.

I see Mr Johnson was Stoneyhurst* and Magdalen (Oxford) educated, is a prolific historical author, was a British army officer, and was an adviser to Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair.

Quite a guy. And the book's dedicated to someone called Fraser. So not all of us English and Scots here are anti-semitic, by no means.

Some may be gratified to know, and I found out because I later ordered one at the bookshop downtown, that the book is being reprinted.

*That means i.a. that he's a catholic.

Thanks (genoves) for the tip.

0 Replies

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Foofie, Is this your Jewishness again? Who the hell are you to tell strangers to return to their hick towns? This is a free country where anyone has the freedom of mobility from any place in the USA without being told by the likes of you to return from where they came.

"All the gays could go back to their homophobic hick towns that they left. " That is not SENDING anyone anywhere. If the Castro District was made a Zionist State, the gays would have to leave. I only said, "the gays COULD go back..." Perhaps, they would want to move to Vegas. It was only one of many options, if the Castro District became a Zionist State.

They wouldn't leave though. I'm not aware of Zionists having any kind of special vendetta against gays or being particularly discriminatory. The two groups probably wouldn't mingle much, by choice, which would cause the anti-Zionist crowd to accuse the Zionists of discrimination, but so what? What else is new?

However, if we carved out a Palestinian homeland for displaced Palestinians in the Castro district, there could be a problem. It has been my observation that Islamic Arabs are not friendly toward homosexuals. So which side do you think the critics would take when the trouble started?

3 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

However, if we carved out a Palestinian homeland for displaced Palestinians in the Castro district, there could be a problem. It has been my observation that Islamic Arabs are not friendly toward homosexuals. So which side do you think the critics would take when the trouble started?

The ones being discriminated against, of course.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxie wrote:

Quote:

They wouldn't leave though. I'm not aware of Zionists having any kind of special vendetta against gays or being particularly discriminatory. The two groups probably wouldn't mingle much, by choice, which would cause the anti-Zionist crowd to accuse the Zionists of discrimination, but so what? What else is new?

However, if we carved out a Palestinian homeland for displaced Palestinians in the Castro district, there could be a problem. It has been my observation that Islamic Arabs are not friendly toward homosexuals. So which side do you think the critics would take when the trouble started?

Foxie's perception of relationships is blinded by her own bigotry; not all Islamic Arabs are extremists; I would venture to say that they are a very small minority of the one billion Muslims of the world.

Also, not all Jews whether in Israel or anyplace else on this planet all get along or agree on politics or religion. This is true of most cultures on this planet. These are facts missed by the likes of Foxie, because her world is myopic and bigoted.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Foofie wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Foofie, Is this your Jewishness again? Who the hell are you to tell strangers to return to their hick towns? This is a free country where anyone has the freedom of mobility from any place in the USA without being told by the likes of you to return from where they came.

"All the gays could go back to their homophobic hick towns that they left. " That is not SENDING anyone anywhere. If the Castro District was made a Zionist State, the gays would have to leave. I only said, "the gays COULD go back..." Perhaps, they would want to move to Vegas. It was only one of many options, if the Castro District became a Zionist State.

They wouldn't leave though. I'm not aware of Zionists having any kind of special vendetta against gays or being particularly discriminatory. The two groups probably wouldn't mingle much, by choice, which would cause the anti-Zionist crowd to accuse the Zionists of discrimination, but so what? What else is new?

However, if we carved out a Palestinian homeland for displaced Palestinians in the Castro district, there could be a problem. It has been my observation that Islamic Arabs are not friendly toward homosexuals. So which side do you think the critics would take when the trouble started?

I would not know.

But, I wonder how much of the Palestinean, and Arab hostility to a Zionist State existing (let us forget about displaced Palestineans for the moment) is based on their religious beliefs (aka, that the Middle East is supposed to be Muslim)? If the answer is yes, am I wrong, or did that God of the Hebrews supposedly give that land to the Hebrews (aka, Jewish Israelis) at least two thousand years earlier? Is God rewrapping Christmas presents?

1 Reply

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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