ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

I assure you, sir, my report was not in my rectum. See

I choose to believe the AP report.

The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them. The forces were trying to keep the soldiers' captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity. [Forbes7/12/06]

The reports from UPI, AP, CNN, Fox, WSJ, MSNBC etc. etc. etc. all concur that the Hezbollah raiders came into Israeli territory, killed several soldiers, and captured two.

Hezbollah's original raid on the Israeli patrol and rocket attack was probably for the reason they've admitted: to effect a prisoner exchange.

When it didn't work, and Israel responded militarily, the agenda then changed. Hezbollah knows full well it is no match for Israel militarily. So now they are fighting a propaganda war with the MSM as their willing accomplices. They don't have to win militarily. They only have to win in the court of world opinion. They just have to survive. Israel is forced to win to keep from losing.

Foxfyre wrote:

Hezbollah's original raid on the Israeli patrol and rocket attack was probably for the reason they've admitted: to effect a prisoner exchange.

When it didn't work, and Israel responded militarily, the agenda then changed. Hezbollah knows full well it is no match for Israel militarily. So now they are fighting a propaganda war with the MSM as their willing accomplices. They don't have to win militarily. They only have to win in the court of world opinion. They just have to survive. Israel is forced to win to keep from losing.

That might be partly right. But let's not forget that it was Israel's choice to react in that way. Or would you argue that Israel's very existence was threatened by the Hezbollah operation where two Israeli soldiers were captured? I don't think so. Israel got into that messy situation by bombing residential neighborhoods as well as a clearly marked UN post, by killing UN peacekeepers and hundreds of Lebanese civilians. You may argue that this is not Israel's fault at all, and that Hezbollah alone should be blamed for what is happening. In the light of current events,

Even if you'd leave Qana aside, how do you justify Israel's attack on the very fabric of Lebanese society? Statements like the one from Israel's chief of staff, when he promised to "turn back the clock in Lebanon by 20 years", are probably not particularly helpful.

Foxfyre wrote:

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These all appear to be posted from the same pro-Hezbollah sources however. I have posted several links previously that contradict F4F's links on this subject. The reports from UPI, AP, CNN, Fox, WSJ, MSNBC etc. etc. etc. all concur that the Hezbollah raiders came into Israeli territory, killed several soldiers, and captured two. At the same time they fired the initial rocket launch into Israel.

The Hezbollah leader admits to this sequence of events and said they did it to effect a prisoner exchange.

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Thank you, foxfyre for your dedication to the truth in this controversy.

You will note that Old Europe denigrates your sources as Mainstream.

Old Europe would have, I am sure, referred to Pravda for the truth( no put intended)just before the Berlin Wall came down.

I don't know what "sources" Old Europe would use? Isvestia?

The Daily Teheran? The Pynonyang Press?

Foxfyre wrote:

The reports from UPI, AP, CNN, Fox, WSJ, MSNBC etc. etc. etc. all concur that the Hezbollah raiders came into Israeli territory, killed several soldiers, and captured two.

You mean, the reports from the "MainStream Media"? Those guys that want to manipulate "world opinion" into hating Israel?

If Hezbollah had not fired rockets from residential neighborhoods, I do not believe Israel would have attacked residential neighborhoods. This is the one simple fact that nobody on your side of the argument seems to wish to acknowledge. Israel has to go after the rocket launchers where they believe the launchers are; they have to stop what they believe are the supply lines to the launchers, or they have no legitimate targets at all.

If you are Israel and 100 or more rockets are being fired indiscriminately into your residential neighborhoods every day, what do you do?

The fact that casualties in Lebanon number in the 100s and not the 1000s testifies that Israel is being as careful as it can to target what it believes to be military targets only.

Foxfyre wrote:

If Hezbollah had not fired rockets from residential neighborhoods, I do not believe Israel would have attacked residential neighborhoods. This is the one simple fact that nobody on your side of the argument seems to wish to acknowledge. Israel has to go after the rocket launchers where they believe the launchers are; they have to stop what they believe are the supply lines to the launchers, or they have no legitimate targets at all.

If you are Israel and 100 or more rockets are being fired indiscriminately into your residential neighborhoods every day, what do you do?

The fact that casualties in Lebanon number in the 100s and not the 1000s testifies that Israel is being as careful as it can to target what it believes to be military targets only.

It's a fact that all parties of the conflict resort to disinformation and historical falsification to bolster their case, but your attempt to rewrite history after a mere couple of days after the events is quite astonishing.

Israel launched its offensive on Lebanon, targetting residential neighborhoods, as a reaction to the kidnapping of two soldiers. Hezbollah reacted by firing rockets on Haifa.

Are you claiming that the rocket attacks preceded Israel's decision to escalate the fighting?

I think reasonable people can discuss opposing views with the personal insults, either covert or overt.