@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
Quote:Palestinians refused to accept the agreement offered by US President Clinton in December 2000, and violence continued at least until the beginning of 2005.
This is true -- they refused to accept permanent surfdom. Do you have any idea what was actually in that offer?
The Myth of the Generous Offer
@FreeDuck,
Oh, I understand now.
It was the Israelis that built all of the tunnels under the border into Egypt.
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
Oh, I understand now.
It was the Israelis that built all of the tunnels under the border into Egypt.
If the Palestinians controlled the border they wouldn't have needed to tunnel under it.
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:
Advocate wrote:
It is not so much eminent domain as it is a war prize. The Pals have unilaterally mounted attacks on Israel since long before it became a state. In the '67 war, it attacked Israel. Israel has the right to take the land from the attacks came. It is similar to our taking Puerto Rico from the Spanish.
Then let her claim the land. But she won't, because that means claiming the people. The people aren't Jewish, which means Israel's stated definition must be changed to either not inherently Jewish or not democratic. This is the crux of the problem and why so many years have gone by with no just resolution.
Well said, FreeDuck ! The very heart of the matter.
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck, Some times the simplest of explanations of why things are done by the Palestinians can't be seen by the Israeli apologists; if they were not quartered in with fences and guns, what other way is there for them to access the outside of their prison?
This is a new form of Israeli democracy?
@FreeDuck,
But they do control their side of the border.
Thet do not control the Egyptian side, and it is Egypt that has kept the border crossings closed.
And what about the Jordanian border?
Jordan does share a border with the west bank area, and as far as I know its not controlled by the Israeli's at all.
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
But they do control their side of the border.
Thet do not control the Egyptian side, and it is Egypt that has kept the border crossings closed.
And what about the Jordanian border?
Jordan does share a border with the west bank area, and as far as I know its not controlled by the Israeli's at all.
I'm pretty sure you are wrong about that, and the Israelis do control that border.
Cycloptichorn
@Cycloptichorn,
mm speaks from ignorance; there are double and triple fences between Israel and Jordan - with at least one of them being electric and the other barbed wire.
There is no freedom of movement for Palestinians. There are all those fences and armed guards at check points on all roads next to those fences.
It's to be expected that those Israel apologists know nothing about which they speak; total ignorance.
@Cycloptichorn,
Actually, from this report...
http://www.meforum.org/923/re-energizing-a-west-bank-jordan-alliance
It woud appear, at least by insinuation, that Jordan actually controls the border with the West Bank.
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:there are double and triple fences between Israel and Jordan - with at least one of them being electric and the other barbed wire.
I'm not talking about the Israeli- Jordanian border.
I am talking about the West Bank and Jordan.
Those are 2 seperate areas.
And please show even one post I have ever made where I have been an "apologist" for Israel.
You cant because I never have.
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
But they do control their side of the border.
Thet do not control the Egyptian side, and it is Egypt that has kept the border crossings closed.
Yes, in its agreement with Israel to blockade Gaza. But you were just wondering why the Palestinians don't just get their goods from somebody friendlier who they share a border with. It seems you have your answer.
Quote:And what about the Jordanian border?
Jordan does share a border with the west bank area, and as far as I know its not controlled by the Israeli's at all.
This is from 2002:
http://www.mideastweb.org/map_israel_settlements.htm
Cicerone Imposter is so stupid he can't even tell when someone has stuck his inane comments into his diseased anus!
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
But they do control their side of the border.
Thet do not control the Egyptian side, and it is Egypt that has kept the border crossings closed.
And what about the Jordanian border?
Jordan does share a border with the west bank area, and as far as I know its not controlled by the Israeli's at all.
You are dead wrong.
Israel directly controls and occupies all of the territory from the heights of the hills overlooking the Jordan down to the shore all the way from Galilee to the Dead Sea. Moreover Israel has declared this occupation will be permanent - this territory, for example, was not included in Barak's famous (and fictitious) offer of "90% " of the West Bank to Arafat (it was really closer to 40%, and instead was 90% of what Israel considered "negotiable")
This, of course, means that - according to the Israeli position - any Palestinian state will be divided into at least two disjoint parts, Gaza and the West bank (or part of it), with only one, Gaza, having a border with a state other than Israel, and that only a few miles long: the West Bank will be completely isolated from diirect contact with any other state.
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Wilso wrote:
What amazes me most about these Israel supporters is their naivety. You know how much YOUR life means to them? NOTHING. If they had to cut your throat in order to extend by one day the life of a 90-year-old blind jewish terminal cancer sufferer with dementia, they'd spill your blood as quick as look at you.
The above generalization could be thought to be an anti-Semitic statement, since it is a very pejorative view of Israeli Jews.
I don't give a flying **** what it looks like. The Israeli's are one of the most racist societies on earth. I know for a fact that they would view my Asian wife and half Asian children about the same as insects - so **** 'em. If anyone wants to call me anti-Semitic then I'll wear it, and anyone who doesn't like my attitude can kiss my ass.
@Wilso,
I think you should care how it looks, Wilso, because, notwithstanding that it's an odd comparison, at the least, it is clearly would never be supported by facts.
@JTT,
Whose facts are you talking about?
@Wilso,
Quote:I know for a fact that they would view my Asian wife and half Asian children about the same as insects - so **** 'em.
And you know this how?
Have you ever been to Israel?
Have you ever been exposed to any Israeli's?
You are talking out your ass about how Israeli's are.
Gee- JTT- I am worried about those 50,000 Asians in Tel Aviv. Wilso says they are in danger. Should we warn them?
Demographics
Towers in Southern Kirya districtCity of Tel Aviv
Population by year[1][5][7][31][44]
1920 2,000
1925 34,000
1937 150,000
1939 160,000
1948 200,000
1960 390,000
1989 317,000
2009 391,300
The city has a population of 391,300 spread over a land area of 51,788 dunams (51.8 km2) (20 miĀ²), yielding a population density of 7,533 people per square kilometer (19,510 per square mile). According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS), as of June 2006 Tel Aviv's population is growing at an annual rate of 0.9%. Jews form 91.8% of the population, Arabs (Muslims and Christians) make up 4.2%, and the remainder belong to other ethnic groups (including non-Arab Christians and Asians).[72] As a multicultural city, many languages are spoken in the city alongside Hebrew. These include Russian, French, Spanish, Tagalog, Thai, Arabic, Amharic and English. According to some estimates, about 50,000 unregistered Asian foreign workers live in the city.[73] Compared with other Westernised cities, crime in Tel Aviv is relatively low.[74]
@rabel22,
Quote:Whose facts are you talking about?
Let's dispense with any facts, Rabel and go with logical possibility.
Quote:What amazes me most about these Israel supporters is their naivety. You know how much YOUR life means to them? NOTHING. If they had to cut your throat in order to extend by one day the life of a 90-year-old blind jewish terminal cancer sufferer with dementia, they'd spill your blood as quick as look at you.
Do you think it possible that every, most, quite a few, "Israel supporter[s] would cut "your" throat in that situation? I think that even "quite a few" is a stretch way way too far. Would I be surprised if we could locate one or two, or a handful, no, probably not.