ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Israel is not a democracy. It does not allow Palestinians the same freedom of movement, ownership of property, and access to goods and services in a "real" democracy.

Then using your definition, the US isnt a democracy either, and neither is any other nation on the planet.

The Pals say they want their own state, that they arent citizens if Israel.
So, if thats the case, then why should they be afforded the benefits of Israeli citizenship?

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@McTag,

So?
The Pals dont want to be part of Israel, so why should Israel allow anything to cross their territory to get to the Pals?
If the Pals want to be their own state, they need to start acting like it and import their supplies thru a freindly country, not one that is hostile to them.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

Foofie wrote:

The concept of eminent domain might lead the politically left to rethink any one-world government preferences, and citizen of the world concepts, since a one world government might just decide that Israel's Jews have utilized the land better than the Palestineans, and Gaza and the West Bank should be condemned and given to the Jews to develop, a la Tel Aviv (the Israeli version of Los Angeles).

Holy superiority complex, Batman!

The problem with the term superiority complex is it reflects the work of Karen Horney that thought the superiority complex was a complex because it was over-compensation for feelings of inferiority, if I remember correctly. However, what about those that are superior in actuality, based on a set of standards? Were the Europeans superior to the Native Americans in engineering, since the Native Americans did not invent the wheel? Were the Germans superior to other westerners in rocketry, since they developed the V-2?

I believe that there is such a thing as superiority that is not a complex. Sort of like Babe Ruth was superior in baseball to many of the ballplayers of his day; or Satchell Paige as a pitcher.

I know today's politically correct thinking is that we are all equal, and we might be born that way; however, since our brains are computers that are to be programmed, some of us do not get the needed software to function optimally in today's world, in my opinion.

But, I might have a superiority complex for several reasons, none of them having to do with my being a secular Jew: veteran, New Yorker, male, voracious reader of non-fiction. And, oh yes, not needing to be liked by a multitude of people to have a healthy level of self-esteem (this might have to do with being a secular Jew?).

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@FreeDuck,

There is no border between Israel and the Pal territory. The Pals have been unwilling to work out borders with Israel, not agreeing that Israel is a legit state.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

No, this is you being honest about your inherent racism towards Palestinians. It is not different than racist speech towards any group.

Cycloptichorn

I am not racist towards Palestineans; however, I will not think Palestineans are equal in culture, and therefore certain traits, as perhaps, Germans. And, if many can agree that Palestineans and Germans do not have the same level of industriousness, then could we add Jews to the comparison, or would that be outside the bounderies of fair play?

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@Foofie,

It is not so much eminent domain as it is a war prize. The Pals have unilaterally mounted attacks on Israel since long before it became a state. In the '67 war, it attacked Israel. Israel has the right to take the land from the attacks came. It is similar to our taking Puerto Rico from the Spanish.

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

It is not so much eminent domain as it is a war prize. The Pals have unilaterally mounted attacks on Israel since long before it became a state. In the '67 war, it attacked Israel. Israel has the right to take the land from the attacks came. It is similar to our taking Puerto Rico from the Spanish.

O.K. But, the wikipedia article on "eminent domain" made reference to William the Conquerer, in 1066, coming along with the concept to utilize the conquered land for the "best" use. Israel perhaps should do the same.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

You are using the un-nuanced word "superiority."

Yes. Yes I am.

Quote:

I only refer to a culture that may instill in its adherents an industriousness that can be utilized by the world in general for developing a region. Few question the German culture for instilling a work ethic? Only Jews are condemned for being vocal about their cultural advantages.

Victims again! Oh woe is us!

Quote:

For example, Jews had to learn to read and write Hebrew in order to function as Jews for a few thousand years, while Gentiles could be pagan or monotheistic as illiterates. Only when Protestantism came along was literacy required to read the bible. You are ignoring the reality that culture does a "sort" in humans between those that can survive in a culture, and those that cannot survive in a culture.

I have no idea what the point of this paragraph is. Regardless of your perceptions that Jews are culturally superior people, your attribution of the advancement of Israel in comparison to the destruction of the lands of the Palestinians which are occupied by Israel to that superiority is erroneous and assumes that all things are equal between the two save their respective cultures, which by the way share a great deal.

Quote:

And, centuries after the "sorting process" we do not want to admit that there may be viable differences between groups.

Oh, so there was only one sorting process? Was that the one where God sorted us into his chosen people and everyone else? I thought you said that culture does the sorting. Well, culture evolves and progresses so certainly this sort must be continuous.

Quote:

You do not find it odd that Hitler talked about the inferiority of Jews, and a few years after WWII, these same Jews were surviving several wars with neighbors, and building a modern state?

No, since Hitler was obviously an ass who believed that his people were culturally superior to others.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

So?
The Pals dont want to be part of Israel, so why should Israel allow anything to cross their territory to get to the Pals?
If the Pals want to be their own state, they need to start acting like it and import their supplies thru a freindly country, not one that is hostile to them.

And which friendly country to they control a border with?

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

There is no border between Israel and the Pal territory. The Pals have been unwilling to work out borders with Israel, not agreeing that Israel is a legit state.

Israel has internationally recognized borders. The settlements and the wall fall outside of these in many places.

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

It is not so much eminent domain as it is a war prize. The Pals have unilaterally mounted attacks on Israel since long before it became a state. In the '67 war, it attacked Israel. Israel has the right to take the land from the attacks came. It is similar to our taking Puerto Rico from the Spanish.

Then let her claim the land. But she won't, because that means claiming the people. The people aren't Jewish, which means Israel's stated definition must be changed to either not inherently Jewish or not democratic. This is the crux of the problem and why so many years have gone by with no just resolution.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

You are a product of your environment, as I am of mine. We will not agree. Nor, do I want to engage in repartee.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

You are a product of your environment, as I am of mine. We will not agree. Nor, do I want to engage in repartee.

yeah, I don't know of anyone on an internet forum who wants to engage in repartee, most posters just post to share their wealth of knowledge with the less informed.

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@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

Quote:
You do not find it odd that Hitler talked about the inferiority of Jews, and a few years after WWII, these same Jews were surviving several wars with neighbors, and building a modern state?

No, since Hitler was obviously an ass who believed that his people were culturally superior to others.

Popular conception of Hitler. I believe he knew exactly what he was doing, and just had no conscience. He might not have fought his war correctly, but when it came to racism, he knew what he was doing. Just like the white Southerners knew what they were doing in the ante-bellum South, regarding slavery.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

You are a product of your environment, as I am of mine. We will not agree. Nor, do I want to engage in repartee.

What I am has nothing at all to do with the absurdity of your arguments.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Popular conception of Hitler. I believe he knew exactly what he was doing, and just had no conscience. He might not have fought his war correctly, but when it came to racism, he knew what he was doing. Just like the white Southerners knew what they were doing in the ante-bellum South, regarding slavery.

I said he was an ass, not stupid.

1 Reply

@FreeDuck,

The Gaza strip borders Egypt.

The west bank borders Jordan.
So there are at least 2 other countries that could allow the Pals to import everything they need across their borders.

BTW, I found something interesting.
Many, if not most, of you blame Israel for the problems in the region, especially for the fact that the pals dont have a "homeland" of their own.

But you all seem to ignore the role Jordan played.
Why is that...

http://www.mideastweb.org/misrael.htm

Quote:

Israel was created in 1948, after UN Resolution 181 partitioned the territory of the British Mandate for Palestine into two states for Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The Arabs objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against it. The Arab side lost the war, and the Palestinian state never really came into being. The territory allotted to the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was taken over by Israel and Jordan. About 780,000 Palestinians became refugees.

And the pals hurt themselves when they refused to accept an agreement offered by President Clinton, argueably the most pro- Palestinian President the US has had to date...

Quote:

Palestinians refused to accept the agreement offered by US President Clinton in December 2000, and violence continued at least until the beginning of 2005.

Now, before the expected attack comes by those on the left about how this is a pro- Israeli site, lets look at that also...

http://mideastweb.org/about.htm

Quote:

MidEast Web was started by people active in Middle East dialog and peace education efforts. Our goal is to weave a world-wide web of Arabs, Jews and others who want to build a new Middle East based on coexistence and neighborly relations. Our members and staff include distinguished educators, engineers, Web designers and other professionals experienced in dialog, peace education projects and in promoting dialog and coexistence using the Internet.

MidEast Web for Coexistence is a registered non-government organization in Israel.

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@mysteryman,

The 'Clinton offer' is a joke. It gave the Pals nothing they wanted whatsoever and guaranteed the Israelis everything they wanted. Arafat would have been murdered if he'd signed it.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

The Gaza strip borders Egypt.

The west bank borders Jordan.
So there are at least 2 other countries that could allow the Pals to import everything they need across their borders.

And the Palestinians control neither. Otherwise I'm sure they could have gotten some cement from Egypt. Have a look at a map that shows Israeli settlements and note that the entire bank of the Jordan river on the Palestinian side is settled -- either by civilians or the military.

1 Reply

Will Nethanyahu step in to save the weak kneed Obama from himself? Many in the world do not know that Obama's father was a Muslim and that his stepfather in Indonesia was a muslim and that his relatives in Kenya are Muslims.

But Nethanyahu said--NEVER AGAIN!

Note:

The message from Israel's new prime minister is stark: if the Obama administration doesn't prevent Tehran from developing nuclear weapons, Israel may be forced to attack.

An Atlantic exclusive
by Jeffrey Goldberg

Netanyahu to Obama: Stop Iran"Or I Will

In an interview conducted shortly before he was sworn in today as prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu laid down a challenge for Barack Obama. The American president, he said, must stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons"and quickly"or an imperiled Israel may be forced to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities itself.

“The Obama presidency has two great missions: fixing the economy, and preventing Iran from gaining nuclear weapons,” Netanyahu told me. He said the Iranian nuclear challenge represents a “hinge of history” and added that “Western civilization” will have failed if Iran is allowed to develop nuclear weapons.

In unusually blunt language, Netanyahu said of the Iranian leadership, “You don’t want a messianic apocalyptic cult controlling atomic bombs. When the wide-eyed believer gets hold of the reins of power and the weapons of mass death, then the entire world should start worrying, and that is what is happening in Iran.”

History teaches Jews that threats against their collective existence should be taken seriously, and, if possible, preempted, he suggested. In recent years, the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has regularly called for Israel to be “wiped off the map,” and the supreme Iranian leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, this month called Israel a “cancerous tumor.”

But Netanyahu also said that Iran threatens many other countries apart from Israel, and so his mission over the next several months is to convince the world of the broad danger posed by Iran. One of his chief security advisers, Moshe Ya’alon, told me that a nuclear Iran could mean the end of American influence in the Middle East. “This is an existential threat for Israel, but it will be a blow for American interests, especially on the energy front. Who will dominate the oil in the region"Washington or Tehran?”
****************************************************************

But we don't really need the oil, do we? We can shut down half of our factories and ride bikes while Obama imitates Neville Chamberlain.

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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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