ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

@Advocate,

You have lied again; most of us, if not all, have said in effect that violence by any side is not acceptable.

If we are expressing distortions, please repeat them for us. We can't defend general accusations.

The attacks by Palestinians are accomplished by a very few, but Israel punishes all of them!

Israel is not a democracy. It does not allow Palestinians the same freedom of movement, ownership of property, and access to goods and services in a "real" democracy.

It's evident even you have not read or have ignored Jews who have challenged what Israel is doing against Palestinians.

How would you like it if our government destroyed all of your family records?

Your "tiny number of Pals" doesn't compute; Israel has killed many more innocent men, women and children than the Palestinians have against the Jews. Those numbers are easy to access on the internet. Your "never targeting civilians" is a lie, and you should know that by now.

The "map" you speak of is an oxymoron when Israel continues to increase their settlements while taking away Palestinian lands in the West Bank.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Israel wanted a humanitarian crisis

Targeting civilians was a deliberate part of this bid to humiliate Hamas and the Palestinians, and pulverise Gaza into chaos

The scale of Israel's attack on the Gaza Strip, and the almost daily reports of war crimes over the last three weeks, has drawn criticism from even longstanding friends and sympathisers. Despite the Israeli government's long-planned and comprehensive PR campaign, hundreds of dead children is a hard sell. As a former Israeli government press adviser put it, in a wonderful bit of unintentional irony, "When you have a Palestinian kid facing an Israeli tank, how do you explain that the tank is actually David and the kid is Goliath?"

Despite a mass of evidence that includes Israel's targets in Operation Cast Lead, public remarks by Israeli leaders over some time, and the ceasefire manoeuvring of this last weekend, much of the analysis offered by politicians or commentators has been disappointingly limited, and characterised by false assumptions, or misplaced emphases, about Israel's motivations.

First, to what this war on Gaza is not about: it's not about the rockets. During the truce last year, rocket fire from the Gaza Strip was reduced by 97%, with the few projectiles that were fired coming from non-Hamas groups opposed to the agreement. Despite this success in vastly improving the security of Israelis in the south, Israel did everything it could to undermine the calm, and provoke Hamas into a conflict.

Israel broke the ceasefire on 4 November, with an attack in the Gaza Strip that killed six Hamas members, and the following day severely tightened its siege of the territory. Imports were reduced to 16 trucks a day, down from 123 daily just the previous month (and 475 in May 2007). Following the unsurprising surge in Palestinian attacks, Israeli officials claimed that an all-out war was unavoidable; without mentioning that an operation had been planned for some months already.

Second, the current operation is only in a limited sense related to both the upcoming Israeli elections and restoring the IDF's so-called deterrence. While it has been pointed out that a hardline approach to Palestinian "terrorism" can play well with the Israeli public, wars are not necessarily Israeli politicians' tactic of choice " the Lebanon war was fought a few months after one.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Let me ask, why do you think it is relevant that I live in Berkeley? In any way? Am I somehow not in America, ...
Cycloptichorn

That's a tough question. I think Emeryville and even Oakland are in America, but Berkeley ....... ??? Let me think about that one for a week or two.

0 Replies

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

Despite the constant Pal attacks on Israel, Israel has killed only a tiny number of Pals and has never targeted civilians.

I believe you should research this assertion a bit. Israel has killed far more Palestinian civilians (without even "targeting them !!) than have the Palestinians Israeli civilians.

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

How about sticking to the point- that those living in Gaza can't import any building materials of any kind, or anything else, because of Israeli decree.

So much for "aid to the Palestinians"

1 Reply

Cyclops wrote:

Let me ask, why do you think it is relevant that I live in Berkeley? In any way? Am I somehow not in America, or is the information that comes over the internet different? Do you pretend I have never lived anywhere else, and know nothing of the East coast or other parts of America? The truth is that you know none of these things, yet it clearly is a factor in your response to me.

******************************************************************

MOST LIBERAL PLACES

ePodunk study identifies the most liberal communities in the U.S.

Our list of "Most Liberal Places in America" is based not on opinion polls, which have come under fire in recent elections, but on votes, political contributions and demographics. The rankings, at right, show nationwide picks by the size of the community and statewide rankings for 29 states.

We considered the following data in making our selections:

Individual contributions to PACs
We analyzed 1.8 million contributions to 2,300 political action committees that could be identified as Democratic/Liberal or Republican/Conservative. This data, for the 2003-2004 election cycle, was downloaded from the Federal Election Commission on Nov. 9.

Election returns
Unofficial election results in the 2004 presidential race were reported at the county level for every county in the U.S., and at the local level for many New England communities.

Gay households
This index was compiled from the U.S. Census by Gary Gates, a demographer at the Urban Institute and co-author of The Gay and Lesbian Atlas. Figures were included for the 1,360 U.S. communities in which 50 or more couples reported living in such relationships.

Local government resolutions opposing combat in Iraq

Local officials performing gay marriages

Congressional District voting history
(Note: Because this factor was part of the screen for rankings, Washington, D.C., which does not have congressional representation, was excluded from our study. Washington residents who do not live in the White House showed strong liberal leanings in their votes for president and political contributions. The city also has a large number of gay households.)

Population
Community population, as reported in the 2000 census.
For more information, send us an email at [email protected], or call us, at 607-387-4181.

Released November, 2004

Other rankings

LIBERAL COMMUNITIES
BIG CITIES
(100,000 or more)
Boston, MA
Cambridge, MA
Berkeley, CA
Oakland, CA
San Francisco, CA
New Haven, CT
Providence, RI
New York, NY
Baltimore, MD
Seattle, WA
MEDIUM CITIES
(25,000-99,999)
Northampton, MA
Somerville, MA
Arlington, MA
Watertown, MA
Santa Cruz, CA
Alameda, CA
Ithaca, NY
Portland, ME
East Palo Alto, CA
Chelsea, MA
SMALL CITIES
(Under 25,000)
Provincetown, MA
Mount Rainier, MD
Albany, CA
Fairfax, CA
Garrett Park, MD
Orono, ME
Takoma Park, MD
Guerneville, CA
Bar Harbor, ME
Johnson, VT
MOST LIBERAL IN STATE
(For selected states)
AZ - Flagstaff
CA - Berkeley
CO - Telluride
CT - Salisbury
FL - Wilton Manors
GA - Decatur
IA - Iowa City
IL - Oak Park
KS - Lawrence
MA - Boston
MD - Mount Rainier
ME - Orono
MI - Ferndale
MN - Golden Valley
MO - Kansas City
NC - Carrboro
NH - Hanover
NJ - Montclair
NM - Santa Fe
NY - Ithaca
OH - Oberlin
OR - Lincoln City
PA - Philadelphia
RI - Providence
TX - Bellaire
VA - Baileys Crossroads
VT - Johnson
WA - Vashon
WI - Madison

************************************************************

The reason that Berkeley residence is crucial in any response is that it is clear that Berkeley holds the most extreme liberal opinion. This, of course, is the opinion that the USA is fatally flawed and that Osama Bin Laden is correct--the USA should be punished--and that goes for her allies--Israel.

0 Replies

The illiterate Cicerone Imposter, who will never forget the Jewish geniuses who constructed the bomb to shorten the war in the Pacific in World War II, is an imbecile. Below is the number of rockets fired by the fanatic Palestinians at Isreal.

Why should any country have to put up with rocket attacks as documented below?

See also: Rocket and mortar attacks on southern Israel

A Qassam rocket is displayed in Sderot town hall against a background of pictures of residents killed in rocket attacksQassam rockets are named after the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the armed branch of Hamas, itself named after an Islamic Mojahed Izz ad-Din al-Qassam who led a Palestinian group during the 1930s. According to Hamas, the Qassam rocket was first developed by Nidal Fat'hi Rabah Farahat and Mohamed Khaled and produced under the direction of Adnan al-Ghoul, the "Father of the Qassam", who died on October 22, 2004.

Qassams were first fired at Israeli civil areas in October 2001. The first Qassam to hit Israeli territory was launched on February 10, 2002. The first time an Israeli city was hit was on March 5, 2002, when two rockets struck Sderot. Some rockets have hit as far as the edge of Ashkelon. The total number of Qassam rockets launched exceeded 1,000 by June 9, 2006. During the year 2006 alone, more than 1,000 rockets were launched. In 2008, 1750 rockets were launched[4]. By the end of December, 2008 a total of 15 people had been killed by Qassam rockets since attacks began in 2001[5] (see: List of Qassam rocket attacks).

The introduction of the Qassam rocket took Israeli politicians and military experts by surprise,[6] and reactions have been mixed.[7] In 2006, the Israeli Ministry of Defense viewed the Qassams as "more a psychological than physical threat."[8] The Israel Defence Force has reacted to the deployment of the Qassam rockets by deploying the Red Color early warning system in Sderot, Ashkelon and other at-risk targets. The system consists of an advanced radar that detects rockets as they are being launched, and loudspeakers warn civilians to take cover between 15 and 45 seconds before impact[9] in an attempt to minimize the threat posed by the rockets. A system called Iron Dome, designed to intercept the rockets before they can hit their targets, is currently under development and is expected to be operational by 2010.

Rocket and mortar shells from Gaza into Israel, Ferbuary 2009Still after the "operation Cast Lead" Qassams are a relevant portion of the rockets plus mortar shells fired from Gaza into Israel. The frequency and number of the attacks can be observed in the thumbnailed graph. Detailed data indicating Qassam occurrence can be found at "Timeline of the 2008"2009 Israel"Gaza conflict". The graph uses these data due mainly to Haaretz news reports from the 1st of February [10] up to the 28th [11].

1 Reply

@genoves,

He wasn't referring to the number of rocket attacks. He was referring to the number killed. In that, there's no comparison. Maybe thou should learn to read first!

1 Reply

What amazes me most about these Israel supporters is their naivety. You know how much YOUR life means to them? NOTHING. If they had to cut your throat in order to extend by one day the life of a 90-year-old blind jewish terminal cancer sufferer with dementia, they'd spill your blood as quick as look at you.

1 Reply

@Wilso,

The number of people killed in some of the attacks is listed in the report. Maybe you should learn how to read.

1 Reply

@genoves,

genoves wrote:

The number of people killed in some of the attacks is listed in the report. Maybe you should learn how to read.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that you think Israeli's are dying at a greater rate than Palestinians? Surely, there's no one on earth that can be that ******* stupid?

1 Reply

@Wilso,

Wilso wrote:

What amazes me most about these Israel supporters is their naivety. You know how much YOUR life means to them? NOTHING. If they had to cut your throat in order to extend by one day the life of a 90-year-old blind jewish terminal cancer sufferer with dementia, they'd spill your blood as quick as look at you.

The above generalization could be thought to be an anti-Semitic statement, since it is a very pejorative view of Israeli Jews.

1 Reply

@Wilso,

Wilso wrote:

genoves wrote:

The number of people killed in some of the attacks is listed in the report. Maybe you should learn how to read.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that you think Israeli's are dying at a greater rate than Palestinians? Surely, there's no one on earth that can be that ******* stupid?

But, it is a red-herring (aka, non-sequitor). The question is whether Israel has the right to live in peace. And that includes the sore losers in prior wars that would like the proverbial "do over" in children's games.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

The question is whether Israel has the right to live in peace.

No, that's not the question. (The answer to that, of course, is yes. Not sure if she wants to, though.) There are many questions, one of which is whether Israel has the right to expand her borders at will to the detriment of indigenous people. Another is whether the Palestinian people have a right of self-determination.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

I do see Israel as unique among nations as it was established as a safe haven for Jews who had suffered unconscionable discrimination, persecution, pograms, and genocide on many different fronts. One of the criticisms of Israel from some members here is that it was established as a haven specifically for Jews and therefore they see it as a 'racist nation'. I strongly disagree with that perception.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

The concept of eminent domain might lead the politically left to rethink any one-world government preferences, and citizen of the world concepts, since a one world government might just decide that Israel's Jews have utilized the land better than the Palestineans, and Gaza and the West Bank should be condemned and given to the Jews to develop, a la Tel Aviv (the Israeli version of Los Angeles).

With 60 years to develop Gaza and the West Bank, the Palestineans have not done much, in my opinion. Israel has developed their land. The concept of eminent domain could make an argument for Zionist Israel being the IMPETUS to developing the region, including a condemned Gaza and West Bank. I would even wonder whether the Ottoman Empire would not have done that (if it survived WWI), since Jews lived under the Ottoman Empire for hundreds of years, and were valued citizens.

Note in the wikipedia article on eminent domain that William the Conquerer in 1066 utilized the concept. Perhaps, Israel should condemn Gaza and the West Bank?

So, if the politically left are truly for the betterment for the world in general, how do they deal with the possible reality that the Israeli Jews are more industrious as a group, perhaps, than their Palestinean neighbors as a group? Otherwise, it is almost as though the politically left would like the Palestineans to get a state based on some version of Affirmative Action for disadvantaged Semites (Jews apparently being the advantaged Semites)?

The precedent might be NYC, since so much of NYC real estate development has been by (guess)!

3 Replies

@Foofie,

Quote:

So, if the politically left are truly for the betterment for the world in general, how do they deal with the possible reality that the Israeli Jews are more industrious, perhaps, than their Palestinean neighbors?

Way to be racist. You sure there aren't any social factors in play here? Say, the immense amount of money America has poured into Israel since it's conception? Or the complete lack of water Palestine has?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

So, if the politically left are truly for the betterment for the world in general, how do they deal with the possible reality that the Israeli Jews are more industrious, perhaps, than their Palestinean neighbors?

Way to be racist. You sure there aren't any social factors in play here? Say, the immense amount of money America has poured into Israel since it's conception? Or the complete lack of water Palestine has?

Cycloptichorn

You are parsing my thoughts so it appears you can still take issue. The Arab oil sheiks have money to develop Gaza and the West Bank. Interesting, perhaps, that Jews help other Jews, and Arab sheiks do nada.

Palestine's lack of water would be assisted by Israel, I believe, if the Palestineans were focussed on developing their land/economy and not fighting an enemy as a cause celebre.

You are not addressing my post relating to the argument that Gaza and the West Bank might need to be condemned as Palestinean turf, and under the concept of eminent domain get reassigned to the Zionist Jews for development.

Let us be intellectually honest; if the Palestineans were Germans, I would think Gaza and the West Bank would be developed as much as Israel, if not more so. But, the Palestineans seem to be less industrious than the Israeli Jews. So, for the betterment of the world at large, Gaza and the West Bank might be needed to be condemned as Palestinean land, and the Zionists become charged with its developement. This is a very politically left concept, and MIGHT JUST SHOW THE INCONGRUOUS THINKING OF THE PRESENT DAY POLITICALLY LEFT!

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

So, if the politically left are truly for the betterment for the world in general, how do they deal with the possible reality that the Israeli Jews are more industrious, perhaps, than their Palestinean neighbors?

Way to be racist. You sure there aren't any social factors in play here? Say, the immense amount of money America has poured into Israel since it's conception? Or the complete lack of water Palestine has?

Cycloptichorn

You are parsing my thoughts so it appears you can still take issue. The Arab oil sheiks have money to develop Gaza and the West Bank. Interesting, perhaps, that Jews help other Jews, and Arab sheiks do nada.

This is ridiculous. The 'arab oil sheiks' have no interest in developing Palestine for the same reason that we here in the US show no interest in paying to develop Mexico. Your lumping of all of them together, as if the Arab community is somehow a uniform, single entity, is once again racist speech from you.

Quote:

Palestine's lack of water would be assisted by Israel, I believe, if the Palestineans were focussed on developing their land/economy and not fighting an enemy as a cause celebre.

You are not addressing my post relating to the argument that Gaza and the West Bank might need to be condemned as Palestinean turf, and under the concept of eminent domain get reassigned to the Zionist Jews for development.

I didn't address it, because it is a purely ridiculous idea on your part. You may not have noticed, but the world as a whole does not support what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.

Quote:

Let us be intellectually honest; if the Palestineans were Germans, I would think Gaza and the West Bank would be developed as much as Israel, if not more so. But, the Palestineans seem to be less industrious than the Israeli Jews. So, for the betterment of the world at large, Gaza and the West Bank might be needed to be condemned as Palestinean land, and the Zionists become charged with its developement. This is a very politically left concept, and MIGHT JUST SHOW THE INCONGRUOUS TH

No, this is you being honest about your inherent racism towards Palestinians. It is not different than racist speech towards any group.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

The concept of eminent domain might lead the politically left to rethink any one-world government preferences, and citizen of the world concepts, since a one world government might just decide that Israel's Jews have utilized the land better than the Palestineans, and Gaza and the West Bank should be condemned and given to the Jews to develop, a la Tel Aviv (the Israeli version of Los Angeles).

Holy superiority complex, Batman!

Quote:

With 60 years to develop Gaza and the West Bank, the Palestineans have not done much, in my opinion. Israel has developed their land. The concept of eminent domain could make an argument for Zionist Israel being the IMPETUS to developing the region, including a condemned Gaza and West Bank. I would even wonder whether the Ottoman Empire would not have done that (if it survived WWI), since Jews lived under the Ottoman Empire for hundreds of years, and were valued citizens.

The Palestinians have not had control of their land to develop it. Israel issues the building permits, and they don't get issued to Arabs. Each war is fought on Palestinian territory, destroying anything that could have been built. To attribute the differences in development between a first world nation and an occupied territory to Jewish superiority is disgusting. Further, your repeated generalizations of Jews as a superior people who are better able to develop land (among other things) -- and now apparently are responsible for most of the development of NYC -- plays right into the hands of anti-semites. Indeed, it is just the other side of the same coin.

2 Replies

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

To attribute the differences in development between a first world nation and an occupied territory to Jewish superiority is disgusting. Further, your repeated generalizations of Jews as a superior people who are better able to develop land (among other things) -- and now apparently are responsible for most of the development of NYC -- plays right into the hands of anti-semites. Indeed, it is just the other side of the same coin.

You are using the un-nuanced word "superiority." I never used that. I only refer to a culture that may instill in its adherents an industriousness that can be utilized by the world in general for developing a region. Few question the German culture for instilling a work ethic? Only Jews are condemned for being vocal about their cultural advantages. For example, Jews had to learn to read and write Hebrew in order to function as Jews for a few thousand years, while Gentiles could be pagan or monotheistic as illiterates. Only when Protestantism came along was literacy required to read the bible. You are ignoring the reality that culture does a "sort" in humans between those that can survive in a culture, and those that cannot survive in a culture.

And, centuries after the "sorting process" we do not want to admit that there may be viable differences between groups. You do not find it odd that Hitler talked about the inferiority of Jews, and a few years after WWII, these same Jews were surviving several wars with neighbors, and building a modern state?

Perhaps, the popular culture is not intellectually honest.

1 Reply

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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