15
   

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 11:09 am
@Advocate,
Yes. Show me where I said that?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 11:19 am
@cicerone imposter,
I usually refer to an unbiased web site to post casualty rates in Israel such as Wiki, BBC, Guardian, or UN.

This is what Wiki reports today:

Quote:
Casualty figures for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from B'Tselem for the period from 09.12.1987 to 29.9.2000 (First Intifada)[120]
(numbers in parentheses represent casualties under age 18) Year Deaths
Palestinians Israelis
2000 (until 28.9) 16 (2) 2 (0)
1999 9 (0) 4 (0)
1998 28 (3) 12 (0)
1997 21 (5) 29 (3)
1996 74 (11) 75 (8)
1995 45 (5) 46 (0)
1994 152 (24) 74 (2)
14.9.93-31.12.93 42 (4) 19 (0)
1993-13.9.93 138 (37) 42 (0)
1992 138 (23) 34 (1)
1991 104 (27) 19 (0)
1990 145 (25) 22 (0)
This line shows a phone number, so I deleted it.
1988 310 (50) 12 (3)
Dec 9-31 1987 22 (5) 0 (0)
Total 1549 (304) 421 (18)


The Palestinians have suffered over 3.5Xs the Israelis during this period. That also means more innocent Palestinians were killed by the Israelis. The last Gaza conflict has killed many innocent Palestinian children, and destroyed a UN school in Gaza.

ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 02:20 pm
@ican711nm,
As long as the moderate Palestinian Arabs persisted in failing to stop those among them mass murdering Israelis, they had no one but themselves to blame for the full consequences of Israel exterminating those among them mass murdering Israelis, AND also murdering moderates in the same neighborhoods.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 02:27 pm
@ican711nm,
You are a sick man. Killing innocent people justified based on your kind of thinking is inhumane and sick. Only a small percentage of the total Palestinian population are out to kill innocent Jews/Israelis. You do not punish the whole for a small number of people who are violent.

If that were true, who do you think the majority of mass murderers in the US are committed by?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 02:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Westley Allen Dodd - Child Serial Killer and Child Molester
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Profile of Serial Killer Jeffrey Dahmer
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Serial Killers Couple Ray and Faye Copeland
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Dean Corll and the Houston Mass Murders
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Profile of Serial Killer Alton Coleman
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Profile of Serial Killer Richard Chase
When looking into the life of Richard Chase, one can only wonder who is to blame for the six people he savagely murdered. His parents and health officials considered him sane enough to live freely. Yet, early on in his life, Chase was displaying severe abnormal and dangerous behavior.
Angelo Buono - The Hillside Strangler
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Serial Killer - Jerry Brudos
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Serial Killer - Debra Brown
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The Psychopathic Personality and Common Characteristics
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Serial Killer Ted Bundy
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Richard Ramirez - The Night Stalker
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John Wayne Gacy the "Killer Clown"
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Juan Corona - The Machete Murderer
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0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 05:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I don't think any "Palestinian Israelis" have been killed. I think you are lying again. Please give me a link.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 05:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Hamas is well known to use civilians, including children, as human shields. Thus, they will have civilian casualties. But most importantly, Israel does not target civilians, while the Pals do (and are open about it).
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 05:40 pm
@Advocate,
Yeah, it's really amazing how Israel never targets civilians, but more of them gets killed by the Israelis. Did you read the latest reports on the war in Gaza?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 08:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You are a sick man. Killing innocent people justified based on your kind of thinking is inhumane and sick. Only a small percentage of the total Palestinian population are out to kill innocent Jews/Israelis. You do not punish the whole for a small number of people who are violent.

If that were true, who do you think the majority of mass murderers in the US are committed by?


It seems to me you are not going to accept moral relativism. Pope John Paul warned about moral relativism, I thought. So I would guess you do not subscribe to accepting collateral damage as morally acceptable?

If yes, there is no discussion, since you are taking a position that you are not accepting moral relativism and that it is an objective truth that everyone should subscribe to. You might as well be proselytizing a religion, since you believe your position cannot be wrong, in my opinion.

ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 08:58 pm
@ican711nm,
As long as the moderate Palestinian Arabs persisted in failing to stop those among them mass murdering Israelis, they had no one but themselves to blame for the full consequences of Israel exterminating those among them mass murdering Israelis, AND also murdering many moderates in the same neighborhoods.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:00 pm
@ican711nm,
ican, Why haven't you been stopping all the mass murders in the US? Most were Caucasians.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:03 pm
@Foofie,
The catholic church is in no position to be telling anyone about moral relativism; not when they hid priests who raped and molested children.

Your "collateral damage" is a family members murder.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
By law we have delegated to our police the responsibility to stop murders in our midst. We all pay for the police to do what they can to stop murders in our midst. They don't stop them all, but they sure stop many by intimidating would be murderers not to murder, or they arrest murderers, or they kill murderers. The Palestinian moderates don't even try to stop the murderers in their midst from murdering Israelis.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:


Your "collateral damage" is a family members murder.


I do not follow your inference. Please just talk literal English, without the clipped thought (more than one sentence to explain something; perhaps, using the word "therefore...").
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:15 pm
@ican711nm,
Well, that's not what we're talking about, is it? We're talking about the justification of Jews to kill Palestinians simply because they are Palestinians, and you want "them" to stop the minority of Palestinians who commit most of the crimes.

The police in the US has nothing to do with it; you must stop all those violence being perpetrated by caucasians because you are responsible - according to your reasoning.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 09:16 pm
@Foofie,
It's way over your head.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Apr, 2009 10:28 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Hamas is well known to use civilians, including children, as human shields. Thus, they will have civilian casualties. But most importantly, Israel does not target civilians, while the Pals do (and are open about it).

Actually, Israel had a documented practice of using Palestinians, including children, as human shields until it was recently ordered stopped by their own supreme court.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Apr, 2009 10:31 am
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck, Can you provide a source for your claim? I want to make sure your info is correct, because it'll be another issue by the Israeli apologists that must be put to rest.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Apr, 2009 11:12 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Well, that's not what we're talking about, is it?
We're talking about the justification of Jews to kill Palestinians simply because they are Palestinians, and you want "them" to stop the minority of Palestinians who commit most of the crimes.

YES IT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!

We are talking about the justification of Jews killing moderate Palestinians who are located in the same neighborhoods as those Palestinians murdering Jews in Israel. I alleged that since the moderate Palestinians have done nothing (e.g., zero action by their police) to stop the murdering Palestinians from murdering Israelis, they are tolerating the murdering Palestinians murdering Israelis. Because the moderate Palestinians are tolerating the murdering of Israelis by the murdering Palestinians, they have no one but themselves to blame for their own deaths when the Israelis shoot back at the murdering Palestinians and kill some of the moderate Palestinians in the same neighborhoods.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Apr, 2009 11:38 am
I don't believe anybody on the pro-Israel side has claimed there has been no misconduct on the part of Israeli soldiers. There certainly has been. I doubt any army has ever existed where at least anecdotal misconduct was a reality.

But so far as human shields go, the closest thing to re Israeli policy was the practice of sending a Palestinian into buildings where terrorists/combatants were suspected of hiding rather than have Israelis go in after them--the Palestinian was to ask the combatants to give themselves up. When the Israelis were ordered to stop doing that practice, they had no choice but to go in themselves, sometimes with tragic results. It was a no win situation.

But here is testimony from the Israeli side. Please read it thoughtfully. Please consider the question in the first paragraph. What would you answer?

Does anybody have anything comparable--as a matter of policy, not anecdotal 'evidence'--from the Palestinian side?

Quote:
The Threat of the Human Shield Strategy Hamas Uses Extends Beyond Israel, Gaza
By Abraham Cooper , Harold Brackman
Posted January 9, 2009

What if President Obama were presented by CIA Chief Panetta with this "actionable intelligence": Osama bin Laden and company are holed up in a Hitler-style bunker underneath a hospital in Afghanistan occupied by women and children deployed as shields? Would he launch an immediate strike with cruise missiles or hesitate because of the hostages? Would such a move thwart future 9/11's and be viewed as the death knell of al Qaeda? Or would there be a firestorm of international protest from the Arab and Muslim world and beyond that the American response was a "disproportionate" violation of humanitarian international law and even a "war crime"?

Such is the real dilemma currently faced by the Israeli high command, which reportedly has intelligence that exactly locates the shaken Hamas war cabinet in Gaza in a bunker beneath a hospital, where it is shielded by women and children. How should Israel act? Destroy the terrorist high command or do nothing, to avoid being blamed for loss of innocent lives by an international community indifferent to the threats from Hamas rockets targeting Jews from Sderot to Tel Aviv's suburbs?

In the lethal "fog of war," even the most-disciplined, best-intentioned armies errantly kill civilians caught in the crossfire as well as their own soldiers who die from friendly fire. Does anybody remember the thousands of French civilians killed by the Allies during World War II's Normandy Invasion? In their current asymmetrical war with Hamas, the Israeli Defense Forces have used cellphone messages, leaflets, and other measures in the attempt to decouple civilians from military targets placed in their midst by the terrorist organization. The flow of hundreds of trucks laden with foodstuffs and medicine into Gaza from Israel has now been expanded into a daily corridor in order to allow further humanitarian supplies to reach noncombatants, even when that means some military activities are suspended for hours. For its restraint, Israel gets nothing but a global diplomatic and media chorus of boos from those willfully blind to the ultimate outrage against humanitarian international law occurring today in Gaza.

Shields protect honorable combatants in the midst of battle. Human shields are the weapon of cowards who violate every principle of humanitarian international law. As Prof. Louis Rene Beres points out, the use of human shields constitutes "perfidy" under Article 147 of the Geneva Convention IV defining the laws of war. The international criminals who use human shields are hostes humani generis: "common enemies of humankind."

The Gaza conflict is likely to be remembered as a terrible watershed, not because the IDF has unintentionally killed Palestinian civilians but because Hamas has made the use of human shields a primary military strategy. Buoyed by the unforgivable silence of leading international NGOs, Hamas deploys two complementary tactics that mock and debase the humanitarian core of international law: thousands of indiscriminate rocket attacks targeting Israeli civilians and the massive use of Palestinian civilians"including women and children"as human shields.

Why this willful blindness? For some, it is the romanticized image of Hamas, the pitiful underdog David confronting the giant Israeli Goliath. Yet, in truth, Israel is a sovereign member state of the United Nations that has no need to apologize for creating a military strong enough to defend it from multiple regional threats, including Tehran's genocidal promise to "wipe it off the map." Those who dismiss genocidal threats from Iran and Hamas as mere rhetoric should take a closer look at history. As Ron Rosenbaum recently pointed out, the most significant difference between Adolf Hitler's and Hamas's plans to annihilate the Jewish people is that the Nazis hid their full intent until World War II while Hamas has been promising to do exactly this since its founding charter 20 years ago. And while Hamas does not possess the power of an Adolf Hitler, a nuclearized Iran may be positioned to further the fuehrer's vision of a Judenrein world. It is important to remember that the Nazi leader was incapable of perpetrating the Final Solution until he was empowered by the tacit complicity of a world community that retreated from reality rather than confront the rising tide of evil that was Nazism.

In one sense, the world community is right. The future of international humanitarian law could be at stake in Gaza. But the deadly menace stems not from the IDF but from Hamas's twin campaign of terrorism against both Israeli and Palestinian innocents. The Gaza terrorist state that turns its own people into human shields also threatens to strip the entire civilized world of the protections of international law. Ultimately, Israel will safeguard its own citizens and secure its own destiny, but if the nations of the world do not speak out against Hamas's barbarities, they should be prepared to see such tactics unleashed beyond the borders of the Holy Land, cheered on by the puppet masters of terrorism in Tehran.

Rabbi Abraham Cooper is the associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Harold Brackman, a historian, is a consultant to the Simon Wiesenthal Center
http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/2009/01/09/the-threat-of-the-human-shield-strategy-hamas-uses-extends-beyond-israel-gaza.html


 

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