15
   

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 02:52 am
@mysteryman,
Of course, He posts numerous two liners filled with ridiculous and erroneous crap but does not recogn.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 02:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That's fine, Walter, and then perhaps you will have a measure of equanimity when Nethanyahu becomes Prime Minister( as I predicted).
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 04:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The Arabs in Palestine do not want Jews in their midst. They've been trying to murder all the Jews in Palestine at least since 1920. While the Jews in Israel have Arabs in their midst in Israel and have not been trying to murder them at least since 1948.

That's the point!
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 04:56 pm
@ican711nm,
exactly, Ican, and 18% of the voters in the recent Israeli elections were ISRAELI ARABS.

How many Israelis voted in the Palestinian Elections? ZERO> Why, They would have had their throats cut if they went anywhere near a polling place in Gaza and revealed that they were Israeli.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 05:02 pm
@Foofie,
Americans also live all over the world. So what?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 05:04 pm
@ican711nm,
The Muslim Pals would also like to get rid of all the Christian Pals, and worked hard doing this. Most of the Christians have fled Pal areas, and much of the rest of the ME.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 06:22 pm
@ican711nm,
Whyu do you think that the Israelis allow the Israeli Arabs to vote in their elections? Maybe, unlike the fundamentalist fanatics in Hamas, the Israelis believe in Democracy.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 06:37 pm
@genoves,
Quote:
Whyu do you think that the Israelis allow the Israeli Arabs to vote in their elections?


Purely for propaganda purposes.

Quote:


Elections 2009 / Israeli Arab election boycott gathers speed

By Jack Khoury, Haaretz Correspondent

...

Speaking for the Islamic Movement, its chairman Dr. Mansour Abbas said that reinforcing Arab presence in parliament could be an important instrument in the struggle to remove the inequality that has plagued Arabs in Israel since 1948.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061723.html

genoves
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 06:39 pm
@JTT,
I see nothing in that quote to prove that the Israelis allow the Israeli Arabs PURELY for propaganda purposes.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 07:59 pm
@genoves,
You might want to try reading the whole article. Evidently you think that democracy entails ensuring that certain groups are kept in positions of inequality.

Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 08:37 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

You might want to try reading the whole article. Evidently you think that democracy entails ensuring that certain groups are kept in positions of inequality.



No, not how democracy works, but how all societies work. Do not believe me; you can look it up.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Feb, 2009 09:06 pm
@Foofie,
"How all societies work?" Please show me?
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2009 10:19 am
A poignant observation offered as a justification for the Jews to have one tiny plot of land on the planet that they can call home and refuge for Jews, and an even stronger justification for them to intentionally retain a majority in their leadership and therefore control of their own destiny:

Quote:
From The TimesFebruary 16, 2009
The writing is on the synagogue wall
World depressions lead to a rise in anti-Semitism. All over Europe, the evidence is around us
Denis MacShane

The periodic crises that have shaken world capitalism in the century and a half since Marx wrote Das Kapital are marked by a common political phenomenon. It is the rise of political anti-Semitism. Attacks on Jews and Jewishness constitute the canary in the coal mine that tells us something is going seriously wrong.

Last month a 32-year-old IT worker, Michael Booksatz, was beaten up in the streets of north London by two hooded men shouting about Palestinians. Jewish students at the London School of Economics - home to many brilliant Jews who fled Hitler's Germany - are now frightened by anti-Jewish abuse from Islamist students. Graffiti such as “Kill the Jews” or “Jihad 4 Israel” appear close to synagogues in London.

The Metropolitan Police report four times as many anti-Jewish incidents in recent weeks as Islamaphobic events. The respected Community Security Trust, which records anti-Jewish attacks with scrupulous rigour, reports as many attacks on Jews - verbal, vandalism and some violent - in the first weeks of 2009 as in the first six months of last year.

As the world enters a new era of crisis, anti-Semitism is back. History, as ever, begins to repeat itself. The slumps and stock market fever expressed in Zola's novel, L'Argent, or the populist anger against Wall Street at the end of the 19th century gave rise to the virulent anti-Semitic politics witnessed in France in connection with the Dreyfus case or the takeover of Vienna by openly anti-Semitic politicians. The Great Depression gave rise to the worst expressions of anti-Semitism ever seen, namely the politics that led to the Holocaust. But even in Britain the Duke of Wellington of the time was leader of a secret anti-Jewish organisation which had the initials PJ - Perish Judah - on its letterhead.

The economic crises of the 1970s led to a marked increase in the vote for the National Front in Britain and the openly anti-Semitic BNP, its successor extreme party, is doing very well in local elections - below the radar of the national opinion polls.

The distress and upset over the terrible pictures of children killed in Israel's attacks on Hamas in Gaza have allowed anti-Israeli feelings to be more violently and vehemently expressed than ever before. Criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic. But all anti-Semites hate the existence of a Jewish state and hiding behind code words such as anti-Zionism increases the density and viciousness of their anti-Jewish utterances.

In Italy, the streets of Milan are daubed with slogans urging Italians not to buy goods at Jewish shops - an echo of the Nazi slogan “Kauft Nicht Bei Juden”. In Germany, radio phone-ins are full of accusations that the bankers accused of being responsible for the current economic crisis are Jews. In anti-Israel demonstrations in Berlin, placards stating “It was a good idea to use gas” or “I'm anti-Semitic and that's a good thing” were carried. Thus every Jew is made to feel as if they do not fully belong in the countries where they were born or the societies that they participate in.

Terrible massacres of Muslims have taken place in different parts of the world so far this century, from Kashmir to Gujarat. In Iraq and Afghanistan, Nato soldiers are accused of brutality but the men with the most blood on their hands of fellow Muslims have been Islamist ideologues. Yet there is no outrage against the perpetrators of those attacks compared with the onslaught on Israel and on Jews.

Is it unreasonable to argue that the reason that there is worldwide anger against Israel but not against other regimes or religions that carry out massacres of Muslims is because the Israelis are Jews? Has legitimate criticism and anger against Israel allowed Jew hate to become almost acceptable politics again? Add to this a world economic crisis in which it is so easy to point at the names of the swindlers and banksters that happen to be Jewish, and a new perfect storm of anti-Semitism begins to take shape.

Today in London a conference of parliamentarians from different legislatures in Europe and around the world will gather to discuss what can be done. Michael Gove, for the Conservatives, will join Labour Cabinet ministers Hazel Blears and Jim Murphy in saying it is time for the Parliaments of the democractic world to take action against anti-Semitism - especially Islamist attacks against young Jewish students on university campuses.

The Pope embraces a Holocaust-denying Winchester and Cambridge-educated bishop; slogans such as “Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas” are chanted in Amsterdam;

Jews are again made to feel they are not full citizens of the countries of their birth because they refuse to support the right of Hamas and Hezbollah to use terror attacks against Israeli civilians. The canary in the coal mine seems in danger of its life once again.

Denis MacShane, MP, is a former Minister for Europe and the author of Globalising Hatred: the New Anti-Semitism (Weidenfeld & Nicolson)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5740603.ece
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2009 11:06 am
@Foxfyre,
At least, Foxfyre, you seem to have changed your opinion about the Left (or Socialists, in this case).

Though I generally agree with Denis, I don't think his "observations" about Germany are complete: all that ...

Quote:
In anti-Israel demonstrations in Berlin, placards stating “It was a good idea to use gas” or “I'm anti-Semitic and that's a good thing” were carried.


... is a criminal offence.
If it really happened (I couldn't find a source for it, but I do trust the right scene to do such) those persons have been prosecuted.


Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2009 11:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I haven't changed my opinion about the Left (or Socialists in any case) based on the article I posted or due to anything else. But there is no free speech in Germany? Carrying a politically incorrect placard is illegal?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2009 11:24 am
@Foxfyre,
There is free speech. From our Basic Law:
Quote:
Article 5 [Freedom of expression]

(1) Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing, and pictures and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship.

(2) These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal honor.

(3) Art and scholarship, research, and teaching shall be free. The freedom of teaching shall not release any person from allegiance to the constitution.


This limits are for instance libel, racism, holocaust denial, etc etc
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2009 11:27 am
Here is an interesting BBC documentary on life in Iran. The plight of the Iranian woman is horrific.

http://aminsabeti.wordpress.com/2008/11/04/prostitution-behind-the-veil/
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2009 11:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Jerusalem Post, 25.01.2009[...]
Quote:
More than 250 anti-Semitic incidents were reported around the world during the 22-day assault on the Islamic regime in Gaza. ...
The bulk of the incidents were carried out in Western Europe and were led by local Muslims, including 100 each in France and Britain, the report found.[...]


0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2009 11:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

There is free speech. From our Basic Law:
Quote:
Article 5 [Freedom of expression]

(1) Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing, and pictures and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship.

(2) These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal honor.

(3) Art and scholarship, research, and teaching shall be free. The freedom of teaching shall not release any person from allegiance to the constitution.


This limits are for instance libel, racism, holocaust denial, etc etc


But to make racism and holocaust denial, etc. etc. illegal would be contradictory to freedom of speech.

Libel should be illegal anywhere, but in the USA there is quite specific criteria governing what libel is. Essentially the intent is to prevent untruths being published or broadcast that would deprive a person of his/her reputation, peace, livelihood, opportunities, or otherwise violate his/her unalienable, Constitutional, legal, or civil rights.

To deny the holocaust might be viewed as really ignorant, but it would not be illegal here. Nor is holding any view that is bigoted or prejudicial re anybody's race or any other form of bigotry or prejudice. The law prohibits you from acting out on your racist or prejudicial opinions in a way that violates the rights of others, but it does not prohibit you from thinking them or speaking them.

I am very grateful for our Constitution and First Amendment that denies the government any power to censure or punish us for what we might think no matter how wrong, ignorant, stupid, or hateful it might be.

Evenso, public condemnation of hateful anti-semitic or any other hateful rhetoric is 100% legal here and should be exercised religiously everywhere. The fact that it apparently is not, would be a valid cause for concern for Jewish people or any people who are subjected to public hostility for no other reason than they are simply living their lives.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2009 12:19 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

But to make racism and holocaust denial, etc. etc. illegal would be contradictory to freedom of speech.


Not according to our Basic Law.


Foxfyre wrote:
I am very grateful for our Constitution...

I'm grateful to our "constitution" as well, especially to the UK and the USA who helped us getting it. (Though the USA wanted to name it "constitution" and not "Basic law" Wink ).


You see, Foxfyre, you live in a different country and on a different continent.

The USA doesn't have a long history, and especially not such a sad as we had.

The USA didn't have lost wars.

I could add more which makes the European constitutions (or the lack of it) different - but you know that due to your studies, I'm sure.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Israel's Reality - Discussion by Miller
THE WAR IN GAZA - Discussion by Advocate
Israel's Shame - Discussion by BigEgo
Eye On Israel/Palestine - Discussion by IronLionZion
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.13 seconds on 11/20/2024 at 09:35:11