ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

@Foxfyre,

Quote:

Thus every Jew is made to feel as if they do not fully belong in the countries where they were born or the societies that they participate in.

Quote:

The Southern Poverty Law Center counted 888 active hate groups in the United States in 2007.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp

I wonder how many Jews and Blacks are made to feel as if they "fully belong"?

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

I wonder how many Jews and Blacks are made to feel as if they "fully belong"?

Well, it isn't the topic here but certainly Foxfyre read the latest reports in the US-Jewish press about anti-Semitism in the USA ...

But to quote from the Jerusalem Post again (comment, February 15, 2009):

Quote:

Even in the United States, where public opinion remains overwhelmingly supportive of Israel, the blatantly anti-Semitic demonstrations in major cities have shocked many American Jews hitherto confident that unlike in Europe, anti-Semitism would never reassert itself in their country.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

But to quote from the Jerusalem Post again (comment, February 15, 2009):

Quote:
Even in the United States, where public opinion remains overwhelmingly supportive of Israel, the blatantly anti-Semitic demonstrations in major cities have shocked many American Jews hitherto confident that unlike in Europe, anti-Semitism would never reassert itself in their country.

Sorry, it's the wrong date: that comment by Isi Leibler is in today's (February 16) issue.

Yesterday (February 15) it has been a comment by Rafael Medoff about the same topic (anti-semitsm in the USA), headlined A German-American who stood up.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

JTT wrote:

I wonder how many Jews and Blacks are made to feel as if they "fully belong"?

Well, it isn't the topic here but certainly Foxfyre read the latest reports in the US-Jewish press about anti-Semitism in the USA ...

But to quote from the Jerusalem Post again (comment, February 15, 2009):

Quote:
Even in the United States, where public opinion remains overwhelmingly supportive of Israel, the blatantly anti-Semitic demonstrations in major cities have shocked many American Jews hitherto confident that unlike in Europe, anti-Semitism would never reassert itself in their country.

It is obvious from the national rhetoric that some American people of color do not believe they fully belong, and, if they happen to be subjected to pockets of overt racism may even be justified in feeling that they do not belong. If it got bad enough and they could not get satisfaction through legal means, however, there are any number of countries where they could go and be in the racial majority. Also our laws permit anybody, citizen or non-citizen, who wishes to leave to do so simply by leaving. Unless there is a warrant for their arrest or some such, they just go. They don't have get permission or announce that they are leaving. They just go.

Likewise any citizen or resident of Israel, Jew or Arab or anybody else, who chooses to leave is allowed to do so without question.

It is instructive that both in the United States and Israel, few find racial tensions so intense that they choose to pull up stakes and go where they would be part of the majority and therefore presumably feel more accepted. I suppose our respective imperfections don't loom so important when compared with those in most other places in the world where they would be allowed to immigrate.

The Jews feeling the tensions all about them in various places around the world have no place to go where they can be in a majority and feel safe. Except Israel. Even if they ultimately do not go there, it must be a comfort knowing that it is there for them, just in case it should become necessary.

But there are those who apparently think they should be denied rights to be the majority even in the one tiny little piece of land called Israel. There are those who think the Israelis have no right to Israel at all for that matter.

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@Foxfyre,

You think that my quoted comment had to do with "some American people of colour"?

I read it differently. But I'm not a native English speaker.
[The "Hit-A-Jew-Day" for instance was organised by some Americans of white colour. So you might be right, though.]

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT has not noticed a diaspora to Israel by even a few Jews. JTT is dreaming left wing fantasies if he thinks that Anti=Semitism is rampant in the United States.The only people I know of who are Anti-Semitic are the leftwing loonies who want Israel to divest itself of all of its armaments and allow Hamas to take over the enrire city of Jerusalem.

Only a person completely ignorant of the past in the United States would think that blacks are discriminated against DE JURE. If JTT does not know what that means, he should look it up. But, is there defacto discrimination? Of course.
Irish patriots all over the United Statdes avoid Britishers----Poles show no great love for Russian Nationalists---Many Caucasians living on the border next to Mexico show disdain for Mexican illegals.

But, there is a solution for JTT- He should go to a state in which there is absolutely no racial or ethnic animus--like France, or England, or even Germany.

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@genoves,

genove, you really should read the comment by the left wing loony Denis MacShane, quoted above by Foxfyre.
(And the comments in yesterday's and today's Jerusalem Post about anti-Semitism in the USA, to, I suggest.)

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

You think that my quoted comment had to do with "some American people of colour"?

I read it differently. But I'm not a native English speaker.
[The "Hit-A-Jew-Day" for instance was organised by some Americans of white colour. So you might be right, though.]

No. But JTT's post to which you were responding did refer to people of color.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

genove, you really should read the comment by the left wing loony Denis MacShane, quoted above by Foxfyre.
(And the comments in yesterday's and today's Jerusalem Post about anti-Semitism in the USA, to, I suggest.)

Why do you characterize Denis MacShane as a 'left wing loony'? Seems to me his views are not that different than most modern American conservatives though he does seem to be more neoconservative; i.e. pro-military interventionism to allieve human suffering than most modern conservatives probably think prudent. But his credentials, experience, background, and access to solid information seem pretty darn good.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Why do you characterize Denis MacShane as a 'left wing loony'? Seems to me his views are not that different than most modern American conservatives though he does seem to be more neoconservative; i.e. pro-military interventionism to allieve human suffering than most modern conservatives probably think prudent. But his credentials, experience, background, and access to solid information seem pretty darn good.

Well, he's a member of the Fabian Society, a left wing Labour MP, a former director (for more than 12 years) of the really left International Metalworkers Federation - if you call that Modern American Conservative ... I'm a member in your club as well.

But your correct: he is pretty darn good. I really like him. (He was at the neighbour table in a pizzeria a couple of years ago when we lunched there with the McTags .... which was after he left the Balir government because it was to much on the right in his opinion.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

!Blair government" it should be, of course (he was a minister in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office; before that Minster for Europe).

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Why do you characterize Denis MacShane as a 'left wing loony'? Seems to me his views are not that different than most modern American conservatives though he does seem to be more neoconservative; i.e. pro-military interventionism to allieve human suffering than most modern conservatives probably think prudent. But his credentials, experience, background, and access to solid information seem pretty darn good.

Well, he's a member of the Fabian Society, a left wing Labour MP, a former director (for more than 12 years) of the really left International Metalworkers Federation - if you call that Modern American Conservative ... I'm a member in your club as well.

I was referring to his views in the article cited as not that much different than the majority of those who call themselves modern American conservatives and didn't intend to mean that all his views are conservative. I don't think he could be an influential member of Labour and be completely compatible with MAC ideology. As far as being a member of the Fabian Society, I think that is probably a requisite for being a member of or at least holding any influential position of power within the Labour Party. The Fabians are decidedly leftwing for sure, but they don't seem as crazy looney or irrational as most, but I have not paid them a great deal of attention either.

He earned my respect, however, by recognizing the tensions that exist for the Jews in many places in the world--that is not a politically popular view to hold these days in many places--and his very courageous criticism of radical Islam. You don't see that much from the Left these days.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Quote:

But there are those who apparently think they should be denied rights to be the majority even in the one tiny little piece of land called Israel.

Let's take away your land and that of your neighbors so that they have a place to go, a place to feel safe and in the majority. I wonder what your reaction would be then, Foxfyre.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Their myopia will not allow them to "see" such analogy.

They have already admitted that Israel is a democracy with equal rights for all of its citizens. That Jews continue to take away Palestinian lands is not about the equal rights; it's about their "security."

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@genoves,

13 of 17 in AZ, neo-nazi/racist skinhead; a whole bunch of the 80 hate groups in CA are neo-nazi/racist skinhead; TX, same old, same old.

888 hate groups focused largely on Blacks and Jews. Can't you just feel the love.

Quote:

But, there is a solution for JTT- He should go to a state ...

Now there's a novel idea. I've never heard that one before. You are truly a mental giant, G.

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@Foxfyre,

So I must have misunderstood you first response. Sorry.

Well, according to what you think I must be "a member of or at least holding any influential position of power within the Labour Party".

But I'm not. Nor do I have any influential position of power.

1 Reply

Of all the many people/nations/groups who have conquered or occupied the land now called Israel over the many thousands of years of known history of that region, none other than the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews presumed to establish a nation under their own flag there. The Romans took control of the land from the Jews in 1BC and established a government presence there in 1BC adding it to the total Roman Empire of that time. None of the subsequent powers who have claimed title to the land established a government there.

All Palestinians who lived in Israel at the time it was again established as a nation, and who chose to stay there, are full citizens of Israel with full rights and protections of citizenship . They helped build Israel into a prosperous and peaceful society and they reaped the benefits that came from that. Nothing was taken from them.

Those who left in anticipation expecting that the Jews would be destroyed or driven out forfeited their right to citizenship and the land. What sane people would invite such an enemy to come right on back in?

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Many thousands of years history does not qualify as legal rights to anything. If that were so, many countries that exist today would disappear from the map.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter, you did not understand what I wrote. I made no assumption of any kind about what you thought about anything. I did not suggest what you were or were not a member of.

You called a person a leftwing loony. I asked you why you would attach such an insulting lable to him. You explained it in a way with which I disagreed.

I commented on it.

And that was it.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Many thousands of years history does not qualify as legal rights to anything. If that were so, many countries that exist today would disappear from the map.

A UN resolution with approval of all its signatories and a transfer of 'deed' from the UK who did hold legal rights to the land does qualify as legal rights to a piece of land however.

That's something the leftwing loonies rarely ever want to acknowledge, however.

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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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