ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

From The Independent today:

White phosphorus " which can cause horrific injuries, and is heavily restricted in international law " is now widely accepted to have been used by Israel in this war at several locations. Dating originally from the First World War, white phosphorus and its distinctive plumes of white smoke can legally be used to mark objectives, spread smoke for concealment or set fire to military targets, but not in civilian areas. Israel first denied using it at all, then claimed it was being used only in uninhabited areas, and then last week announced an investigation into its use.

A high school student Mahmoud al-Jamal, 18, was lucky to have been hit by phosphorus shelling during the third week of the war. By the time he reached the care of Gaza City's Shifa hospital, unconscious and severely burned in his left arm, legs and chest, the head of the burns unit, Dr Nafez abu Shaban knew the only hope of saving him lay with surgery. Shifa had no experience of it before 27 December, but "by the last week of the war we knew that we had to get the patient to the operating room and excise all the burnt tissue".

Mahmoud was running from the heavy fighting between Hamas gunmen and Israeli forces in the southern Gaza city district of Tel Al Hawa when a shell dropped in front of him. "I could feel my whole body burning," he said. "I fell and asked someone next to me to help. But he was dead. Then I fainted." Part of his body was still smouldering when he was being anaesthetised in theatre. "A piece extracted itself from his body and burned the anaesthetist on his chest," said Dr Shaban. Mahmoud will live; unconfirmed estimates are that dozens of others burned by phosphorus have not survived.

1 Reply

@McTag,

Are the suicide belts that Hamas provides for men, women, and children legal under international law? You seem to be unconcerned about them.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

I am happy that most people have a very low tolerance of Nazis. This is probably not the case in Germany, much to the benefit of Walter.

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@Advocate,

Quote:

Israel vows to back soldiers accused of war crimes

By JOSEF FEDERMAN, Associated Press Writer Josef Federman, Associated Press Writer " 2 hrs 10 mins ago
Allegations of War Crimes Play Video ABC News " Allegations of War Crimes

* Israeli troops invade Gaza Slideshow: Israeli troops invade Gaza
* EU calls for Gaza unity Play Video Video: EU calls for Gaza unity BBC
* Hamas handouts to rebuild lives Play Video Video: Hamas handouts to rebuild lives BBC

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, left, arrives at the weekly cabinet meeting AP " Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, left, arrives at the weekly cabinet meeting in Jerusalem, Sunday, …

JERUSALEM " Special legal teams will defend Israeli soldiers against potential war crimes charges stemming from civilian deaths in the Gaza Strip, the prime minister said Sunday, promising the country would fully back those who fought in the three-week offensive.

The move reflected growing concerns by Israel that officers could be subject to international prosecution, despite the army's claims that Hamas militants caused the civilian casualties by staging attacks from residential areas.

"The state of Israel will fully back those who acted on its behalf," Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said. "The soldiers and commanders who were sent on missions in Gaza must know that they are safe from various tribunals."

Speaking at the weekly Cabinet meeting, Olmert said Israel's justice minister would lead a team of senior officials to coordinate the legal defense of anyone involved in the offensive.

"That decision is not going to prevent all these organizations and countries to pursue their efforts through legal means," Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad Malki said at talks with European Union foreign ministers in Brussels. "So there is no immunity even if the decision was taken by the Israeli government."

Malki is a member of moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' government, whose authority extends only to the West Bank after rival Hamas violently took over Gaza in 2007.

Israel launched its 22-day offensive to try to halt Hamas rocket fire on southern Israel. The assault killed 1,285 Palestinians, more than half of them civilians, the Palestinian Center for Human Rights counted. Thirteen Israelis, including three civilians, were also killed.

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@Advocate,

Advocate, your 'suicide belt' quote was pertinent and on target. Your 'Nazi" reference was not pertinent and on target and you owe Walter an apology.

Israel's past has not been 100% pure and noble in every case and certainly, as is the case with every army of every nation, there will be a few individuals who act unethically and/or unlawfully. If we want Israel judged on its policies, however, and on what it has become, we shoot ourselves in the foot if we stoop to the level of the anti-Israel bigots who use any ridiculous commentary or any anecdotal incident as evidence of what Israel is and does.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

I am happy that most people have a very low tolerance of Nazis. This is probably not the case in Germany, much to the benefit of Walter.

You certainly forget to mention, Assvocate, that I'm drinking since my therapy 26 years ago even more than before.
Thus you could have have insulted me twice with two of the most heaviest insults I can think of.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxy, are you referring to me here?

I'm not

anti-Israel
a bigot
quoting ridiculous commentary

so you owe me an apology too.

2 Replies

@McTag,

Isn't Advocate a sort of yellow alcoholic egg-flip?

Foxfyre, you are very good at insinuating bigotry and anti-Semitism in those who disagree with you. To me it just shows the weakness of your argument.

1 Reply

My point again is that the existence of Israel was not only to answer the question where do the displaced people (aka, Jews) go after WWII, in a Europe that many were happy to see gone, but was Israel supposed to put to rest the canard that Jews have the desire to "take over" one's country?

I do believe that last thought is not often heard, yet, if there was no Israel, and Jews lived around the world, I believe the old Judeophobia would resurface, with the eventual willingness to vote in a "strong man" to deal with the "Jewish Problem."

My point is that many of those who criticize Israel for its actions do not include the fact that the society that they are part of, only 60 years ago, made the genii come out of the bottle, so to speak. It is very hard to put geniis back in a bottle.

Some people believe foolishly, I think, that if there was no Israel, Jews would live at peace world-wide, engendering no anti-Semitism. Not at all, I believe. Jews, by their culture, are too achievement oriented for the tastes of many a mediocre Gentile.

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@Foofie,

I dont know whether you are being deliberately obtuse or incapable of understanding a simple point. Its not Jewish people who are the problem. Its the Zionist-colonial entity in the middle east calling itself "Israel". I like Jewish people. They are hard working, intelligent and have a wonderful self deprecating sense of humour. But that does not blind me to the criminal behaviour of the Israeli govt.

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@Steve 41oo,

Steve 41oo wrote:

Isn't Advocate a sort of yellow alcoholic egg-flip?

Foxfyre, you are very good at insinuating bigotry and anti-Semitism in those who disagree with you. To me it just shows the weakness of your argument.

Ah yes. Calling somebody stupid names is soooooo much more mature than assigning the label of bigotry to one who accuse a race/people (the Jews) of high crimes and call them murderers and savage and hateful and worse while extending sympathy to those who intend to destroy/drive out those Jews using tactics far more damning than any tactics employed by the Jews. How else can a rational person see that?

I do not see as bigots those who condemn Hamas, Hezbollah et al for their policies and bigotry as well as criticize the Jews for their policies/actions even when I think those people criticize the Jews unfairly or unreasonably.

3 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:

Isn't Advocate a sort of yellow alcoholic egg-flip?

Foxfyre, you are very good at insinuating bigotry and anti-Semitism in those who disagree with you. To me it just shows the weakness of your argument.

Ah yes. Calling somebody stupid names is soooooo much more mature than assigning the label of bigotry to one who accuse a race/people (the Jews) of high crimes and call them murderers and savage and hateful and worse while extending sympathy to those who intend to destroy/drive out those Jews using tactics far more damning than any tactics employed by the Jews...

well now I'm really confused because only a few seconds ago according to "Foofie" (as daft a name on a2k that I've come across)

Foofie wrote:

Look carefully and you might discover that Jews are not a race. They are an ethnic group if one is talking about Ashkenazi Jews. Otherwise, Jewish Israelis are just a nationality made up of many genomes from around the world. But, you prove to me, once again, that with the perception of Jews as a race, they periodically need to watch out for Gentiles that have that perception.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:

Isn't Advocate a sort of yellow alcoholic egg-flip?

Foxfyre, you are very good at insinuating bigotry and anti-Semitism in those who disagree with you. To me it just shows the weakness of your argument.

Ah yes. Calling somebody stupid names is soooooo much more mature than assigning the label of bigotry to one who accuse a race/people (the Jews) of high crimes and call them murderers and savage and hateful and worse while extending sympathy to those who intend to destroy/drive out those Jews using tactics far more damning than any tactics employed by the Jews. How else can a rational person see that?

I do not see as bigots those who condemn Hamas, Hezbollah et al for their policies and bigotry as well as criticize the Jews for their policies/actions even when I think those people criticize the Jews unfairly or unreasonably.

I cannot help but wonder what motivates your pro-Israel spunk? Assuming you are not Jewish, I wonder if the Israelis might like to bottle your genome for developing an uber madel?

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Ah yes. Calling somebody stupid names is soooooo much more mature than assigning the label of bigotry to one who accuse a race/people (the Jews) of high crimes and call them murderers and savage and hateful and worse while extending sympathy to those who intend to destroy/drive out those Jews using tactics far more damning than any tactics employed by the Jews.

Accusations of war crimes and acts in contravention of the Geneva Conventions and international and humanitarian law have come from various respected bodies and relief agencies including the UN and ICRC. And yet again they were not accusing Jews but the Israeli Defence Force (Israeli Disgrace Force if you ask me) and their military and political commanders. The religion of the perpetrators of those crimes is irrelevant, and in your rush to defend them, I really wonder if you have lost your ability to distinguish right from wrong,

1 Reply

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

... this is a sensible statement of a blueprint for progress.
Although one unlikely to find favour in Tel Aviv.

Regardless of whether Tel Aviv agrees to such a proposal by the Palestinian Arabs, it is in the interest of the Palestinian Arabs to make this proposal:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the Palestinian Arabs have to agree on is the following:
IF
the Israelis agree to return to the Palestinian Arabs all Palestinian land originally recommended by the UN to be governed by the Palestinian Arabs, THEN
1. the Palestinian Arabs will cease and desist trying to steal Israel;
2. the Palestinian Arabs will convict and incarcerate any and all Palestinian Arabs not living in Israel that are proven to have perpetrated crimes against Israelis, including murder, attempted murder, and other physical harm to the Israelis or to their property.

If the Palestinian Arabs were to agree on that, then the Israelis would have little choice other than to also agree, because America would no longer help the Israelis if the Israelis failed to agree.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By making this proposal, the Palestinian Arabs will have gained far more support than they have presently.

Personally, I don't see how Tel Aviv can fail to support this proposal regardless of whether or not they favor it.

1 Reply

@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

McTag wrote:
... this is a sensible statement of a blueprint for progress.
Although one unlikely to find favour in Tel Aviv.

Regardless of whether Tel Aviv agrees to such a proposal by the Palestinian Arabs, it is in the interest of the Palestinian Arabs to make this proposal:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the Palestinian Arabs have to agree on is the following:
IF
the Israelis agree to return to the Palestinian Arabs all Palestinian land originally recommended by the UN to be governed by the Palestinian Arabs, THEN
1. the Palestinian Arabs will cease and desist trying to steal Israel;
2. the Palestinian Arabs will convict and incarcerate any and all Palestinian Arabs not living in Israel that are proven to have perpetrated crimes against Israelis, including murder, attempted murder, and other physical harm to the Israelis or to their property.

If the Palestinian Arabs were to agree on that, then the Israelis would have little choice other than to also agree, because America would no longer help the Israelis if the Israelis failed to agree.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By making this proposal, the Palestinian Arabs will have gained far more support than they have presently.

Personally, I don't see how Tel Aviv can fail to support this proposal regardless of whether or not they favor it.

That's a good proposal. I would want to see something about water rights there too, but that's secondary.

I don't think Tel Aviv would go for it; it would get in the way of their expansion plans and their long-term genocide. They would use accusations of anti-semitism to attack any US politician who wanted to cut their funding, and the right-wing would support them in denying this plan.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Advocate,

You normally show such good sense, Advocate. Why the blindness when it comes to Israel?

1 Reply

@Steve 41oo,

Quote:

I really wonder if you have lost your ability to distinguish right from wrong,

You're asking the wrong folks, Steve. These people have no sense of right and wrong. They have long supported a government, their government, that routinely commits war crimes and acts of terrorism.

1 Reply

@JTT,

You got that right! They have lost all sense of right and wrong; they believe them because they themselves are not personally affected by the wrong actions.

If any of their own family members or friends were killed under similar circumstances, they'd be the first ones to cry bloody-murder.

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@JTT,

There is no blindness on my part. What is say is the truth. I don't understand why you and others can't see it.

2 Replies

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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