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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 03:18 pm
@Advocate,
What group of peoples would live in a country they claim is a "democracy," and where they have very little freedoms, and their land confiscated without compensation?

Please name me one.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 04:03 pm
@Advocate,
Disingenuous claptrap, Advocate. Meaning, you know you are fibbing.

"You would do well to know the history of the places of which you speak. Sderot, which may be known to some as an Israeli town, lies on the ruins of Najd, a Palestinian village ransacked in May 1948 by Zionist terrorist gangs. Villagers were forced from their beds and homes with nothing but the clothes they were wearing, rendering them refugees for the next 61 years. That is the story of Sderot."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/22/gaza-israel-palestine-hamas-obama
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 04:44 pm
@McTag,
I know for a fact now that people like Advocate are incapable of many issues concerning Israel of its past, its history and the current issues at hand.

To bring this issue to the current period concerning the land grab by Israel, the following URL posted in another thread shows clearly how Israel not only broke international laws in the past, but continue to do so every day now.

Some people will never see the obvious inhuman treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis, and I fear it's useless to even try. This is for those who already understands all the issues of this thread, and the holocaust perpetrated by the very people who continue to remind us of their own holocaust.

http://able2know.org/topic/127639-1
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 04:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From Wiki:

Quote:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Land and Property laws in Israel)

This article may be inaccurate or unbalanced in favor of certain viewpoints.

Land and Property laws in Israel refers to the legal framework governing land and property issues in Israel. Following its establishment, Israel designed a system of law that legitimized both a continuation and a consolidation of the nationalisation of land and property, a process that it had begun decades earlier. For the first few years of Israel’s existence, many of the new laws continued to be rooted in earlier Ottoman and British law. These laws were later amended or replaced altogether.

In 1945, about 85% of the arable land in Palestine was owned by Arabs.[1] [2] [3] By 1949, some 700,000 Palestinians had been displaced and/or fled from their lands and villages. Israel was now in control of some 20.5 million dunams (approx. 20 500 km²) of lands in what had been Mandate Palestine. In 1949, only about 8 percent (approx. 1,650 km²) of all the Israeli-controlled lands were Jewish-owned, 6% (approx. 1,300 km²) were Arab-owned, with the balance held under some form of government control[4].

The first challenge facing Israel was to transform its control over land into legal ownership. This was the motivation underlying the passing of several of the first group of land laws[5].

Pre-state period

In order to purchase land for the resettlement of Jews in their ancient homeland, the Fifth Zionist Congress (1901) created a private charitable organization called the Jewish National Fund (JNF). Land purchased by the JNF was leased out on a long-term basis to create kibbutzim and other forms of Jewish settlement. However, in the years leading up to the establishment of the state, 1936-1947, the British administration in Palestine introduced a series of land transfer regulations that divided the country into zones. Jews were prohibited from buying land in Zone A, which accounted for 63 percent of the total land area of Palestine. [6]Zone A included the Jerusalem environs and Hebron mountains. Purchases in Zone B, accounting for another 32 percent of the land, were also severely restricted. [7]

After the establishment of the state

After the declaration of independence in May 14, 1948, state-owned lands formerly in the possession of British Mandatory Authorities, together with property abandoned by Arab refugees, passed into the control of the new Israeli government[8]. The newly formed Israeli ministries, committees and departments had begun taking over functions performed earlier by ‘National Institutions’, that is, the JNF, the Jewish Agency (JA) and others. One of the first steps adopted by the new state was the reactivation of the Defence [Emergency] Regulations adopted earlier by the British in 1939 (and later repealed). Since British regulations had applied to the whole country, the Government of Israel passed the Law and Administration Ordinance [Amendment] Law [1948] to reverse the British repeal and reinstate these Emergency Regulations[9]. Some of this land was sold by the government to the JNF, which had developed expertise in reclaiming and developing waste and barren lands and making them productive.

In 1960 under Basic Law: Israel Lands, JNF-owned land and government-owned land were together defined as "Israel lands," and the principle was laid down that such land would be leased rather than sold. The JNF retained ownership of its land, but administrative responsibility for the JNF land, and also for government-owned land, passed to a newly created agency called the Israel Land Administration or ILA[10]. The lease principle is hardly new to the area however as it was practiced for centuries under the Ottoman tapu system. To this day, the Land Registration Office is commonly known in Israel as the tabu, the Arabic pronunciation of the Turkish tapu.

According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 38), land and property laws in Israel can be seen as evolving through three main phases or categories:

1. The imperative to physically acquire and colonise lands vacated by Palestinians who fled or were expelled, and to prevent their return;
2. The necessity of legalising such land acquisitions in order to pre-empt any future claims made by refugees or their descendents;
3. The goal of proceeding with the nationalisation/Judaisation process in areas of the country where Arabs still predominated.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 05:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
EXCERPT
Re: cicerone imposter (Post 3546545)
From Wiki:

Quote:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...

After the declaration of independence in May 14, 1948, state-owned lands formerly in the possession of British Mandatory Authorities, together with property abandoned by Arab refugees, passed into the control of the new Israeli government[8]. The newly formed Israeli ministries, committees and departments had begun taking over functions performed earlier by ‘National Institutions’, that is, the JNF, the Jewish Agency (JA) and others. One of the first steps adopted by the new state was the reactivation of the Defence [Emergency] Regulations adopted earlier by the British in 1939 (and later repealed). Since British regulations had applied to the whole country, the Government of Israel passed the Law and Administration Ordinance [Amendment] Law [1948] to reverse the British repeal and reinstate these Emergency Regulations[9]. Some of this land was sold by the government to the JNF, which had developed expertise in reclaiming and developing waste and barren lands and making them productive.

...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 05:43 pm
Some people refuse to acknowledge that the land grab has been determined illegal by Israel's Attorney General.


Quote:
BBC NEWS
Jerusalem land seizures 'illegal'
Israel's attorney general has told the government to call an immediate halt to confiscating Palestinian property in East Jerusalem under a 1950 land law.

Meni Mazuz said he was never consulted about the policy, which was secretly approved by the cabinet last summer.

He wrote to the finance minister saying the law could not be used for people absent from their property because of Israeli security measures.

The legislation entitles Israel to take Arab-owned land without compensation.

Palestinians say the cabinet decision was meant to allow the takeover of thousands of hectares of Palestinian-owned land around Jerusalem and cement Israel's control over the occupied eastern half of the city.

Hundreds of hectares have been seized in recent months, say lawyers for Palestinian landowners.

The United States has expressed concern about Israel's decision to apply the 1950 Absentee Property Law after it was brought to light last month.

A meeting between top Israeli envoy Dov Weisglass and US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is thought to have discussed the issue on Monday.

Not defensible

Mr Mazuz ruled that reviving the long-dormant law was illegal, justice ministry spokesman Jacob Galanti told journalists.

"Mazuz gave his opinion to ministers that this decision is not legally defensible, that it cannot stand up to either Israeli or international law," he said.

Many of the Palestinian "absentees" affected by implementation of the 55-year-old law are cut off from their land by new structures like roads to Jewish settlements and Israel's separation barrier, which has been deemed illegal by the International Court of Justice.

The law was originally devised to expropriate property belonging to the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who fled their homes during the conflict that accompanied the creation of Israel in 1948.

Israel captured East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan in the 1967 war.

It then expanded Jerusalem's municipal boundaries into the West Bank and annexed the enlarged eastern Jerusalem, a move not recognised internationally.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/4226497.stm

Published: 2005/02/01 14:19:36 GMT
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 05:46 pm
@ican711nm,
No stealing of land by the Jews occurred until the Palestinian Arabs began trying to steal Israel. That began in 1948 after the Jews declared the Independence of their new country, Israel.
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 10:30 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm. Why did you post with large type? Cicerone Imposter has good vision. It's his lackof knowledge of history that is a problem. I don't think he is anti-semitic, only ignorant of Jewish History.

Paul Johnson, in his "A History of the Jews" comments:

"The unremitting copaign of violent Anti-Semitism by its Arab neighbors suggests that separately or jointly they might seek to impose another Final Solution if they got the opportunity. Israel had to assume such a possibility and arm against it."
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 12:33 am
@ican711nm,
Well, it really depends what you call stealing.

There's a lot of information online - I'm reading getting my infos (due to the language: primarily) from German Jewish publications, like the ...

http://i44.tinypic.com/2wbx9hs.jpg
["Palestine. Magazine for the cultural and economic development of the country"

... publishing in the Nº1 issue of 1902 (page 39 et seqq.) quite a bit of the Gaza region, for instance. (Published until 1938)

For the later time, quite a good info can be got (mostly for economics) from "Palestine News", too
http://i40.tinypic.com/2rr2af5.jpg
("Magazine for the economic development of the near orient")

You find those publications either in a library. Or online.
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 01:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Thanks for telling us about that, Walter Hinteler. I didn't know there was such a large interest about Israel in Germany.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 01:29 am
@genoves,
You surprise me. I really had thought you knew more about it ... since the movement to settle in Israel started from Germany.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 02:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
As noted in "Zeitschrift für Demographie und Statistik der Juden [alte Folge]" ('Magazine for demographic and statistics of the Jews [old sequel]') (issue 3, page 19, 1905) around 1900 "the Jewish influence in Palestine is now greater than that of the German: both are similar important in the cultivation of the country, however, there are more Jewish colonies than German".
(As source is given, besides others: Verney, Dambmann: Les Puissance Étrangères dans le Levant, en Syrie et en Palestine, Paris and Lyon, 1900; pages 137 et seq..)
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 04:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
But didn't the interest die down right after the war? I thought no one wanted to talk about Israel then. At least the great movie--Judgment at Nurenberg --showed that Germany wanted to forget the past.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 11:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
No stealing of land by the Jews occurred until the Palestinian Arabs began trying to steal Israel. That began in 1948 after the Jews declared the Independence of their new country, Israel. This was recommended by the UN, after the British abandoned Palestine and delegated to the UN the responsibility for deciding what to do with Palestine.

I define stealing: Taking that which belongs to one or more others without the permission of those one or more others.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 12:16 pm
@ican711nm,
Thanks for your definition.

I suppose, it's not valid pre-1948 in your opinion.

ican711nm wrote:
That began in 1948 after the Jews declared the Independence of their new country, Israel. This was recommended by the UN, after the British abandoned Palestine and delegated to the UN the responsibility for deciding what to do with Palestine.


Well, there was actually already in 1947 the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181. But never mind.
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 12:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
ICAN711NM- Shame on you, don't you know that Walter Hintler is an expert all all things having to do with Israel?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 12:27 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

You surprise me. I really had thought you knew more about it ... since the movement to settle in Israel started from Germany.


Perhaps, that is the simple answer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

While the headquarters was in Berlin, it might have been due to German being the language that many Jews spoke in Europe? And, Russian Zionists I thought gave the early impetus to buying land from the Ottoman Empire and starting collective farms.

Of what import would it be for one to say that it started in Germany? So did Reform Judaism, I thought, start in Germany. A fact of little consequence, I believe, other than within the confines of the incongruency of the Nazis scapegoating the most assimilated version of Judaism in the world?

One could also point out that German Jews spoke High German, not Bavarian German, to a large extent. So? In the end, "German Jews" found themselves disenfranchised from their heritage.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 12:41 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Perhaps, that is the simple answer?
... ... ...
Of what import would it be for one to say that it started in Germany? So did Reform Judaism, I thought, start in Germany. A fact of little consequence, I believe, other than within the confines of the incongruency of the Nazis scapegoating the most assimilated version of Judaism in the world?

One could also point out that German Jews spoke High German, not Bavarian German, to a large extent. So? In the end, "German Jews" found themselves disenfranchised from their heritage.


I've only referred to the sources I've got, and here especially to the above quoted two magazines. (I haven't read through all 100+ Jewish periodicals so far.)

I wasn't responding to any of your above questions and don't intend to do so, since I don't know to much about it.
(As far as I know, Jews in Germany spoke local dialect as well - at least according to primary sources - but of course the publications were in High German [and Yiddish].)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 12:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I've only referred to the sources I've got, and here especially to the above quoted two magazines.


"Palestina" has been a Zionist periodical, indeed. Published since 1902, at first at Jüdischer Verlag (Berlin), then at Verlag C. Barth (Munich), and finally until 1938 at Fiba-Verlag (Vienna).

"Palestina Nachrichten" was a 'neutral' bi-weekly, published from 1934 until 1936 in Berlin, by Verlag Ernst Köstenbaum.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 03:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The UN in 1947 passed its resolution recommending a two-state solution in Palestine.

Israel, one of the two states recommended by the UN, declared its independence in 1948.

Subsequently in 1948 and thereafter Palestinian Arab and theitr supporters attempted to steal Israel.
 

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