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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 04:23 pm
McTag wrote:
I personally believe that was Isral's intention at the outset, since they will not defeat Hezbullah in Lebanon without committing a lot of ground troops. And, at the moment, their actions during the last week have increased the support for Hezbullah in Lebanon and in the wider arab world. To succeed, they must eventually strike at Hezbullah's promoter and supplier and my guess is they will want to do this sooner rather than later.


Good analysis. I agree fully.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 04:45 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
[There is also the point that I believe Lash addressed to you. Notwithstanding the truth or lack thereof of Gunga's claim concerning the Israeli attack of this morning, it is pretty clear that Hezbollah is using Lebanese civilians and UN monitoring posts as shields. It's difficult to imagine that they are not fully aware of the potential consequences of this tactic, and therefore I think its fair to conclude that they find a dual benefit is using human shields:

1- Making it more difficult for Israel to target them
2- Providing them with all important propaganda when civilians are killed in the effort to strike at them.

This is a particularly cynical and heartless tactic which I doubt anyone can accuse Menachim Begin of employing.
.



I agree with you about Hezbollah's knowing hiding of their rocket storage and launch sites amidst Lebanese civilians, and even their very likely expectation that Israeli retaliation or just defensive measures would cause extensive civilian casualties. However it would be dead wrong to say the Begin and the several prominent Zionist groups did not use equivalent tactics in their successful campaign to terrorize the palestinians and exhaust the British

It is true that, as Lash writes, these tactics were first perfected by the IRB and later the IRA in the successful Irish revolution that began in 1916. Moreover it produces what must be recognized as a very good historical result, freeing the Irish from centuries of British misrule, oppression and indifference.


The tactics of of which Lash has written do not include using your own citizens as human shields, and worse engineering civilian casualties. It may be that the Zionists engaged in such tactics, but neither I nor Lash have found evidence of same. Since you are dead sure that they did, perhaps you can provide us with a link.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 04:49 pm
McTag wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
To succeed, they must eventually strike at Hezbullah's promoter and supplier and my guess is they will want to do this sooner rather than later.


I agree, nonetheless you can appreciate their wanting to eliminate as much of the rocketing from nearby as they can before they go after Syria and/or Iran.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 04:51 pm
I do not see any legal or moral distinction between hezbollah's serene acceptance of the prospect of casualties among the Lebanese civilians surrounding their rocket sites due to the inevitable Israeli defensive reaction, and the equally serene acceptance of those same casualties by the IDF as the inevitable collateral damage associated with their retalliation. If you see one, please explain it to me.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 04:56 pm
One other thing somebody should mention here which I have not seen is this:

The one thing which the hezbullies have which even remotely resembles a legitimate beef against Israel is Israel's holding a number of them and/or their general ilk as prisoners.

That one is not hard to figure out logically. Operating a prison and holding people as prisoners costs a lot of money, and Israelis are basically Jews, who have a finely tuned sense for avoiding unnecessary expenses in life.

If there was any conceivable way they could release the people in question and feel safe about it, they would have done so long since. The people being held are basically kindred spirits to Jack the Ripper, the Boston Strangler, Paul Bernardo, and Charles Manson.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 04:59 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
I do not see any legal or moral distinction between hezbollah's serene acceptance of the prospect of casualties among the Lebanese civilians surrounding their rocket sites due to the inevitable Israeli defensive reaction, and the equally serene acceptance of those same casualties by the IDF as the inevitable collateral damage associated with their retalliation. If you see one, please explain it to me.


The difference is simple enough. Leaving these human shields alive gets Israeli citizens killed. It does not get hezbullies or lebanese killed.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 05:42 pm
There is a vast difference to me in unintentional civilian casualties during war, and an entity intentionally basing their attacks near civilians, using them carelessly as a shield.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 06:06 pm
Lash wrote:
There is a vast difference to me in unintentional civilian casualties during war, and an entity intentionally basing their attacks near civilians, using them carelessly as a shield.


I'll say it again, that's the one really big difference I see between the hezbullies and the German nazis, i.e. the German nazis were not cowards.

Oh, yeah, that 48 hour thing you're reading about... I know a lot of people see that as a triumph for the hezbullies, but don't worry, they won't able to restrain themselves from launching more rockets; I'd give it about ten or twelve hours, tops. This thing ends when the last hezbully is either dead or doing roadwork in chains and singing:

Quote:

Hoo! Ah!
Hoo! Ah!

Well, don't you know
That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang...
That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang........
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 06:13 pm
looking at a simplified timeline of the armed disagreements between "the israelis" and "the arabs" makes me think that great britain and the united states - perhaps with help from some other western nations - must have realized that they were creating an unstable geographical state .

1916
sir henry mcmahon , british high commissoner in egypt , assures amir feisal , son of sharif hussein of mecca , that for their support in fighting the ottomans (the turkish/german army) , they will be free to form an "arab state" .
by today's geogr definition that would include syria , lebanon , israel , palestine , iraq , saudi-arabia , UAE .

...SIR HENRY...




1916
sykes-picot agreement .
a secret british-french agreement that led to the division of the arab countries - without much input from the arabs living there .

...SYKES-PICOT...

fast forward to ...
1944
(quoted from the text)
"In September, 1944, Churchill announced the creation of a Jewish Brigade to be trained by the British, while Huseini was meeting with Himmler and advocating the creation of an Islamic army for Germany. Then, in November, two young extremist Jews from Palestine, reputed to be members of an organization that had broken from the Irgun, called the Stern Gang, assassinated Britain's minister-resident to Cairo, Lord Moyne. Churchill was outraged. So too were many Palestinian Jews. It was terror that accomplished nothing for the Jews.

The United States, Britain, Arabs, and Jews to Palestine
During World War II the United States wanted assurance from Saudi Arabia concerning supplies of oil needed to wage war. In February 1945, following the Yalta Conference with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt and King ibn Saud met aboard a ship docked in the Suez Canal. There, Roosevelt and Saud concluded a secret agreement in which the U.S. would provide Saudi Arabia military security - military assistance, training and a military base at Dhahran in Saudi Arabia - in exchange for secure access to supplies of oil. Regarding Jews, Saud expressed sympathy for their plight, but he argued that a homeland for Jews in Palestine would be unfair to Palestinians. Roosevelt responded in April, just before he died, sending Saud a letter stating: "I will take no action which might prove hostile to the Arab people."

...ARABS AND JEWS TO 1950...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
of course , wars have been fought , books have written , scholars have analyzed ... but has it brought peace to the people of the middle east , the jews and the arabs ?
imo the "big boys" have simply used both the israelis and the arabs as pawns in their games ... and still continue to do so .

perhaps a disclaimer is needed :
i've picked out a few items and they do not represent the total history , nor the complete picture .
perhaps others will give us a little more historical perspective to help us better understand the "situation" in the ME .
hbg
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 06:15 pm
I'd be careful about calling the Hezbollah cowards gungasnake. The Israels who are fighting them have a great deal of respect for them. I think they know a lot more about their fighting abilities then you.

Quote:
The troops describe Hezbollah guerrillas hiding among civilians and in underground bunkers two or three stories deep - evidence, they say, that Hezbollah has been planning this battle for many years.

"It's hard to beat them," one soldier said. "They're not afraid of anything."

SOURCE
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 07:02 pm
What I see on this thread is a lot of posturing arm chair generals. The facts are that civilians are (or were before the cease fire) the ones getting the most damage and Hezbollah seems to be unaffected. Are the Israelis just bad shots or incredibly unlucky in being able to kill Hezbollah rather than women and children? If Hezbollah were there with the women and children they would be dead by the bombs hitting the women and children as well. It's only logical.


Quote:
Israeli air strikes cut Lebanon's main road to Damascus on Saturday, while Israel said its forces had killed around 70 to 80 Hizbollah guerrillas in fighting in southern Lebanon over the past few days. Hizbollah says only 31 of its fighters have died since the start of the 18-day-old conflict


source
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 07:44 pm
xingu wrote:
I'd be careful about calling the Hezbollah cowards gungasnake. The Israels who are fighting them have a great deal of respect for them. I think they know a lot more about their fighting abilities then you.

Quote:
The troops describe Hezbollah guerrillas hiding among civilians and in underground bunkers two or three stories deep - evidence, they say, that Hezbollah has been planning this battle for many years.

"It's hard to beat them," one soldier said. "They're not afraid of anything."

SOURCE



The problem is only one of semantics; a well trained, well disciplined, and well bankrolled coward is still a coward, and what these losers are doing is cowardly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/triggerhippiespics/axisvsallieds.jpg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 08:40 pm
It should be against the Geneva Convention for terrorist organizations to intermingle with civilians, innocent children, etc.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 09:49 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
I do not see any legal or moral distinction between hezbollah's serene acceptance of the prospect of casualties among the Lebanese civilians surrounding their rocket sites due to the inevitable Israeli defensive reaction, and the equally serene acceptance of those same casualties by the IDF as the inevitable collateral damage associated with their retalliation. If you see one, please explain it to me.


There is a huge difference which I'm surprised you cannot see.

To the Israelis, Lebanese civilians are collateral victims, not to be deliberately targeted but not to be spared at all or even major costs. They are, arguably, some aspect of the enemy either because they directly support and assist Hezbollah, or because they do not renounce them. Those that die are unfortunate casualties of war.

To Hezbollah, Lebanese civilians are their people, their families. They are part of the Uma, fellow muslims and, arguably, the reason why Hezbollah is fighting Israel. They are the people who Hezbollah's much vaunted services arm is intended to benefit.

Unless you can show otherwise, Israel's fighting forces whether commando groups in the 40's or today's IDF have never deliberately placed Israeli civilians in harms way to provide shields for their fighters and have never engineered Israeli civilian deaths to serve propagandist goals.

This distinction doesn't necessarily excuse Israel from the moral consequences of their own actions, but it is a stark distinction indeed.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 11:00 pm
The difference between cartoons and real images of war, gunga.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/07/30/qana_wideweb__470x318,0.jpg

Quote:
THE 19-day-old war in the Middle East has reached a turning point, with Israel's deadliest attack yet killing 54 people in southern Lebanon and the United States declaring it is time for a ceasefire.

Images of dead children - 37 children, police said - being dragged from the building in Qana, southern Lebanon provoked international condemnation and shattered the ceasefire talks. Lebanon's Prime Minister, Fouad Siniora, yesterday cancelled talks with the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, until a ceasefire is enforced.

Early yesterday morning an Israeli aircraft bombed the three-storey building in Qana crowded with sleeping civilians. Many were refugees displaced from further south. Mothers embraced their dead children and joined rescuers to retrieve the bodies. Sixty-three people had been sheltering in the basement.

While an Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman said Israel regretted the death of innocent civilians, the Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, vowed the offensive in Lebanon would continue. The YNet news website reported that Mr Olmert told Dr Rice Israel needed 10 to 14 more days of continued action against Hezbollah. An official in Mr Olmert's office denied the comments had been made.

The Israeli Army had been unaware civilians were in the building, Lieutenant-General Dan Halutz said, according to the NRG Maariv website. An army spokesman, Captain Jacob Dallal, said: "Residents of this village were warned several days ago to leave … Hezbollah was firing from there and therefore Hezbollah bears the responsibility."

But Israel later promised to investigate. "Israel takes full responsibility and is going to start an open investigation to find out how this happened," a government spokeswoman, Miri Eisin, said.

Dr Rice had been due in Beirut yesterday, but Mr Siniora told her not to come. "There is no place on this sad morning for any discussion other than an immediate and unconditional ceasefire as well as an international investigation into the Israeli massacres in Lebanon now," he said.

In Jerusalem, Dr Rice said she was saddened by the attack: "I think it is time to get to a ceasefire. We actually have to try and put one in place. My work towards a ceasefire is really here today." But any ceasefire could not mean a return to the prewar position, said Dr Rice, who was due to return to the US today.

The White House said the bombing showed the need for Israel to take "the utmost care" to avoid civilian casualties. It said in a statement Dr Rice was working to arrange the conditions for a sustainable ceasefire soon.

In response, the governing Palestinian movement, Hamas, vowed to attack in Israel, including possible suicide bombings. Hezbollah vowed to retaliate. In Beirut, protesters broke into the United Nations headquarters.

Britain's Foreign Secretary, Margaret Beckett, said the attack was "absolutely dreadful, it's quite appalling. We have repeatedly urged Israel to act proportionately." The previous foreign secretary, Jack Straw, broke ranks with the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, saying Israel's "disproportionate action" could lead to further instability in the region. "If you want Hezbollah, go for Hezbollah, not the whole Lebanese nation," Mr Straw said.

The European Commission called the attack horrific, repeating its call for a ceasefire, with France, the UN and Arab countries condemning the attacks. The UN Security Council was due to hold an emergency meeting yesterday.

The incident is the latest Israeli attack on civilians, leading to accusations it is committing war crimes. At least 523 Lebanese have died since fighting began, about 90 per cent of them civilians. Many more are believed buried in areas still being bombed. Hezbollah has killed 19 civilians in northern Israel and 32 Israeli combatants have died in action.

In 1996, an Israeli shell killed 106 civilians who had taken shelter in a UN bunker in Qana.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Alexander Downer, said yesterday any Australian contribution to a UN peacekeeping force in Lebanon would be very small.

To be credible, a multinational force would have to be between 10,000 and 15,000 strong, clearly mandated, and with Lebanese and Israeli backing, he said


90% of those who have died in Lebanon have been civilians so far in the conflict; I am wondering if Israel's percision guided bombs need some repair. Anybody see any Hazbollah fighters hiding behind the dead children?

But Israel did not know about civilians

Quote:
Had we known there were that many civilians inside, especially women and children, we certainly would not have attacked it," the commander told Reuters on condition of anonymity.

Asked how Israel's intelligence services could know about missile launches from Qana but not about the presence of dozens of civilians, the commander said: "We are capable of detecting missile launches because they are very dynamic."


right
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 11:22 pm
hamburger wrote:
looking at a simplified timeline of the armed disagreements between "the israelis" and "the arabs" makes me think that great britain and the united states - perhaps with help from some other western nations - must have realized that they were creating an unstable geographical state .

.........i've picked out a few items and they do not represent the total history , nor the complete picture .
perhaps others will give us a little more historical perspective to help us better understand the "situation" in the ME .
hbg


Hamburger,
Thanks for the astute analysis. I do however believe you have left a few important facts out.

First, the Anglo French attempted invasion of the Ottoman Empire at Gallipoli in 1915. This seems an odd way for the Allies to begin a "defensive" war against the "aggressive" central Powers. The fact is the overthrow of the Ottoman Empire and the forced colinalization of its territory and people was near the top of the list of French and British war aims. The Sykes Picot treaty, to which you referred, was the instrument whereby the British and French divided the spoils of the Ottoman Empire long before they were able to bring it dow. In fact it was only after the U.S. entry into the war in 1917 that the British and French were able to transfer over 600,000 troops from the Western Front to the Middle east and Mesopotamia and succeed in this conspiracy after their initial defeats. The duplicitous promises to Hashemites and Zionists were made during that period.

By 1925 the British and French ruled most of the Moslems in the world. This was the beginning of the Islamist backlash that confronts us now.

Zioniism was a marginal movement prior to the attempted extermination of European jews at the hands of the Nazis (and often with the passive compliance of civilian populations in Germany and the occupied countries). After the ravages of WWII surviving Jews were usually not welcome in their own European homes - "displaced persons" was the euphanism used for them at the time. The post WWII renewal of Zionism and the wholesale migration of European Jews, determined to create a Jewish state in Palestine was entirely a European creation.

WWII was largely fought by the Allies with American oil. Transport of petroleum through Suez and across the Mediterranean was impossible in the face of Axis air attacks, and the long run around the cape and up the South Atlantic entailed huge losses to submarines. The U.S. was a major exporter of petroleum until well into the '50s. Roosevelt's interest in the Saudi meetings you accurately described was for energy not for the war but for for the post war period - that period was the subject of the Yalta meetings he had just attended and the object of his dialogue with the Saudis. By then the greed and imperialistic ambitions of the British & French and the horrors of the German holocaust had already put the downward Palestinian spiral in motion.

It is true that, largely due to the political activities of American Jews, who, unlike their ancestors in Europe, were not left to the extermination trains by their neighbors and horribly murdered, the United States has consistently and perhaps too unquestioningly supported Israel in its struggles with the neighboring Arab States and later the Palestinians. I believe we erred in not applying more pressure on Israel after the 1967 war to achieve a political settlement with the Palestinians of the West bank, either by annexing the territory and granting rights of citizenship to the people, or the quick creation of a semi autonomous state. Three decades of occupation produced nothing but trouble for them and misery for the Palestinians. At the same time the attitudes and behavior of the neighboring Arab states, still outrages over Anglo-French imperialism did little to abet or even permit any solution.

The mess in the Middle east is the creation of the European powers. The assumed mantle of moral outrage of contemporary Europeans is an act of supreme hypocrisy by any of them who have the slightest understanding of their generally awful histories in this affair.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 11:28 pm
Thanks for that (again) excellent analysis, George!

Today's The Guardian (page 4 in the print versio) offers some possible answers on how the violence could be stopped ...

Quote:
FAQ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How can the violence be stopped?

Simon Tisdall
Monday July 31, 2006
The Guardian


Has the Qana tragedy ended hopes of a ceasefire to halt the Lebanon war?

Hizbullah threatened to retaliate against Israeli civilian targets with additional and possibly longer range rocket attacks, saying: "This horrific massacre at Qana will not go without a response." An MP from the ruling Palestinian party, Hamas, predicted suicide bombings might resume. And while expressing regret, Israel's prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said he was in "no hurry" to stop the fighting. But the news appeared to shake Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, who has been criticised for in effect delaying an end to the fighting while she pushes wider US ambitions for a "new" democratic and pro-western Middle East. "I think it is time to get a ceasefire ... We actually have to try and put one in place," Ms Rice said in Jerusalem. The Lebanese government's decision to cancel her visit until an immediate ceasefire is agreed added diplomatic embarrassment to political discomfort.

Where does the diplomatic process go from here?

George Bush and Tony Blair remain committed to passing a binding resolution at the UN security council this week. Their principal proposal is the staged introduction into southern Lebanon of an international security force with a fresh UN mandate. It would supplement the Lebanese army which, under the US-British plan, would reclaim control of the south lost to Hizbullah and thereby reassert the Lebanese government's sovereignty over all of its territory. The resolution is also expected to call for a Hizbullah withdrawal and the disarming of the Shia militia in line with previous UN demands.

How would the proposed international security force work?

The countries that have offered in principle to contribute soldiers - France, Italy and Greece from the EU and predominantly Muslim Turkey and Indonesia - insist that a full ceasefire must precede its deployment. They have heard the threats from Hizbullah that any deployment without its agreement could lead to an Iraq-style insurgency against "occupiers". But Israel wants an initial deployment to take place immediately. This would enable Mr Olmert to claim that his strategic objective of rendering the Lebanon border area secure has been attained. Otherwise Israel fears Hizbullah will use the gap between a ceasefire and international deployment to re-arm and regroup along its northern border.

Who will disarm Hizbullah?

Hizbullah is convinced it is winning. In the absence of any incentives, and given the Israeli army's inability so far to defeat it, Hizbullah has no reason to disarm. Neither Israel, the US nor Britain are prepared to talk to the militia. Nor have they made much effort to engage its main supporters, Iran and Syria. Hizbullah is theoretically committed to destroying Israel. But its leader, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, has a pragmatic streak. Israeli acceptance of a ceasefire now would allow him to claim a second victory, following Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000, and would establish him as the Islamic world's foremost popular hero. That would strengthen his hand in Lebanon's internal politics and reduce his dependence on Iran and Syria.

Has Qana shifted the Arab world's view of the Lebanon war?

Angry statements yesterday from Jordan, normally regarded as a tame, pro-western ally, reflected growing public outrage in the Arab world. States such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan tacitly welcomed the assault on Hizbullah, a group they associate with region-wide fundamentalist jihadism that potentially threatens their own existence. But as the fighting has intensified, Arab rulers have become concerned that anger in the street could translate into regime change of a kind not envisaged in Washington.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jul, 2006 11:52 pm
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 01:37 am
From today's The Guardian (page 19/ online version)
Quote:




http://i7.tinypic.com/21jw3uf.jpg


As if we didn't know it already, the conflict in Lebanon shows that truth and war don't mix. All parties to the tragedy of the Middle East resort to disinformation and historical falsification to bolster their case, but rarely has an attempt to rewrite the past occurred so soon after the fact. Israeli ministers and their supporters have justified the bombardment of Lebanon as "a matter of survival". Total war has been declared on Israel, so Israel is entitled to use the methods of total war in self-defence. This would be reasonable if it were true, but it isn't. It's completely false.

The conflict was triggered by a Hizbullah operation in which two Israeli soldiers were captured and three killed. Let's be frank, this wasn't exactly the Tet offensive. It certainly didn't justify Israel's ferocious onslaught against the very fabric of Lebanese society. Yes, the rocket attacks on Haifa are an appalling crime, but they followed rather than preceded Israel's decision to escalate the fighting. They cannot provide retrospective justification for Israeli strategy.
The crisis has also been accompanied by the selective and often inappropriate use of the term "terrorism". Following the Israeli government, George Bush and Tony Blair were at it again on Friday, blaming "terrorists" for sparking the conflict. The purpose behind this is obvious enough. In the context of America's war on terror, anyone claiming to be engaged in the fight against this most contested of notions gets carte blanche to do as they please. But the result has been to politicise the term in ways that render it effectively useless as a category of moral judgment or policy analysis.

It is certainly true that Hizbullah has been linked to a string of classic terrorist attacks going back more than 20 years, including suicide bombings against civilian targets, hostage-taking and the hijacking of a TWA flight. A particularly vile example was the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community centre in Buenos Aires in which 85 people were murdered. Hizbullah strongly denies involvement, but the truth is probably murkier than either side pretends. Responsibility for these attacks has often been attributed to Hizbullah's External Security Organisation (ESO), a unit believed to be under the operational control of Iranian intelligence rather than the Hizbullah's Lebanese leadership. Britain is one country that draws this distinction, proscribing ESO, but not Hizbullah itself, under the Terrorism Act.

Interestingly, some of the earliest suicide bombings commonly attributed to Hizbullah, such as the 1983 attacks on the US embassy and marine barracks in Beirut, were believed by American intelligence sources at the time to have been orchestrated by the Iraqi Dawa party. Hizbullah barely existed in 1983 and Dawa cadres are said to have been instrumental in setting it up at Tehran's behest. Dawa's current leadership includes none other than the new Iraqi prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki, feted last week in London and Washington as the great hope for the future of the Middle East. As the old saying goes, today's terrorist is tomorrow's statesman - at least when it suits us.

None of this should be read as exonerating Hizbullah of the charge that it uses terrorist tactics. Irrespective of anything else, the use of Katyusha rockets against Israeli population centres is clearly intended to inflict terror and suffering on civilians. It deserves a response. But the allegations of terrorism levelled at Hizbullah (as well as Hamas and other groups) by America and Israel go well beyond the targeting of non-combatants. The US state department's annual reports on terrorism also list operations carried out against the Israeli Defence Force as examples of terrorism. The US government justifies this conclusion by way of a logical contortion that defines Israeli troops as "non-combatants", despite the fact that Israel continues to occupy territory in Lebanon and Palestine with military force. The intention is not just to stamp out terrorism as commonly understood, but also to stigmatise perfectly legitimate acts of resistance.

Terrorism has always been extraordinarily difficult to define, but the American approach lacks any pretence at objectivity, thus making the term utterly meaningless. Used in this way, terrorism becomes simply "political violence of which we disapprove". The answer, of course, must not be to abandon any attempt to distinguish between right and wrong in the use of force. There need to be standards if we are to prevent the free-for-all of violence without limit. But these standards must be disinterested, legitimate and robust. As it happens, most of what we need is adequately provided for in international humanitarian law. Numerous treaties and judgments from the Geneva conventions onwards set out quite detailed rules governing the use of force, including the principles of proportionality and civilian immunity.

Under international law, there can be no doubt that many of the actions carried out by Hizbullah and Hamas constitute war crimes that must be punished. The reason it has been disregarded for the purposes of fighting terrorism is that, rather inconveniently for the governments concerned, it applies to states as well as non-state groups. Accepting it would leave them open to unwanted scrutiny and possibly even prosecution for war crimes of their own. In the case of the Israeli government, it isn't hard to see why. Israeli doctrine eschews the principle of proportionality in favour of massive retaliation, as has been amply demonstrated in Lebanon and Gaza.

Despite Israel's protestations that it is doing everything it can to avoid civilian casualties, it is clear that its military strategy is aimed at maximising the suffering of the Lebanese people as a whole. This was declared quite openly on day one of the campaign, when Israel's chief of staff, General Dan Halutz, promised to "turn back the clock in Lebanon by 20 years", and confirmed again yesterday with the horrific slaughter at Qana. The approach is identical to the one taken in similar operations in 1996 and 1993, when Yitzhak Rabin admitted: "The goal of the operation is to get the southern Lebanese population to move northward, hoping that this will tell the Lebanese government something about the refugees, who may get as far north as Beirut." Populations will move like this only if they are in fear of their lives.

The same applies to Gaza, where the pretence at discrimination is even thinner and Palestinian civilians are being subjected to a brutal siege and acts of violence that have no military justification. As in Lebanon, the intention is to force civilians to turn on the militias by inflicting as much pain and suffering as the Israeli government thinks it can get away with. What is this if it is not terrorism? It is certainly a war crime. So let's hear no more hypocritical utterances about the evils of terrorism from Bush and Blair. Not until they are able to speak with genuine moral authority by condemning all forms of illegal violence, irrespective of who commits them.

· David Clark is a former Labour government adviser
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jul, 2006 01:47 am
That guy must have read my post yesterday on "The Jews" thread.

Agreed.
0 Replies
 
 

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