15
   

ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 11:26 am
You ought to think about your hatred of Israel and Jews, which makes you distort the facts in Israel and Pal.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 11:30 am
Advocate wrote:
You ought to think about your hatred of Israel and Jews, which makes you distort the facts in Israel and Pal.



You need to see yourself when you accuse others of "hating Jews and Israel." If that's the best you can do, you haven't learned anything about the facts of a country you so blindly defend.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 01:10 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advocate wrote:
You ought to think about your hatred of Israel and Jews, which makes you distort the facts in Israel and Pal.



You need to see yourself when you accuse others of "hating Jews and Israel." If that's the best you can do, you haven't learned anything about the facts of a country you so blindly defend.

It is a true fact that those Arabs in Palestine not in Israel's part of Palestine, are worse off than those Arabs living in Israel.

This true fact is due primarily to the failure of the Palestinian Arabs to form their own state not committed to ending the existence of Israel. Not until the civilized members of the non-Israeli Palestinian Arabs gain control of their state, and are committed to Israel's continued existence, will they be able to better their own condition.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 01:22 pm
ican, You could also benefit from reading the National Geographic article on Bethlehem.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 02:37 pm
CI, you previously referred to Pal-Israelis. Boy, you are a moving target. What is it?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 02:42 pm
Advocate wrote:
CI, you previously referred to Pal-Israelis. Boy, you are a moving target. What is it?



I don't believe I ever used that term, but please show me where I made that quote?>
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 03:08 pm
All you need to do is click on the following link.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/2007-12/bethlehem/finkel-text.html
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 03:20 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advicate, Get a hold of the current National Geographic magazine, and turn to page 58. Read that article, and tell us you're willing to submit yourself to a life like the Palestinians in Israel?


So, to whom are you referring?

I am sure that the Pals in Hebron are doing better than the Jews who previously lived there for hundreds of years. They were all massacred by the Arabs.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 03:27 pm
The Pals are in a sad situation, but they brought it on themselves. They would do 1,000 percent better if they learned to live with Jews and Christians.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 03:33 pm
Advcate, Your ability look at history while ignoring the current status of Palestinians in Israel is telling. One can look back at history to find atrocitities committed by most countries that had a navy. Germany exterminated four million Jews; they are one of our strongest allies today. Japan committed atrocities ranked about the most atrocious in history; they are also one of our strongest ally.

Learn a bit of history and humility; it'll do you good.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 04:43 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advcate, Your ability look at history while ignoring the current status of Palestinians in Israel is telling. One can look back at history to find atrocitities committed by most countries that had a navy. Germany exterminated four million Jews; they are one of our strongest allies today. Japan committed atrocities ranked about the most atrocious in history; they are also one of our strongest ally.

Learn a bit of history and humility; it'll do you good.

Cice, I think it is you who needs a history lesson.

We first had to conquer Japan and Germany before we could help them reform themselves. Likewise, if the Palestinian Arabs continue to fail to accept the UN's resolution calling for two and not one nation state in Palestine, the ultimate course for the Israelis is to conquer all of Palestine and then help them reform themselves. Also at that point, the Israelis would then have nothing to fear from accepting the UN resolution to allow Palestinian Arabs, who originally fled Israel prior to the Arab attack on Israel in 1948, to return to Israel.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 04:46 pm
ican, You are an idiot first class; you don't promote democracy by subjugating the others in your country. You create hatred and suicde bombers.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 05:22 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
All you need to do is click on the following link.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/2007-12/bethlehem/finkel-text.html

Quote:
Bethlehem 2007 A.D.
By Michael Finkel
Photographs by Christopher Anderson

The birthplace of Jesus is today one of the most contentious places on Earth. Israelis fear Bethlehem's radicalized residents, who seethe at the concrete wall that surrounds them.


This is not how Mary and Joseph came into Bethlehem, but this is how you enter now. You wait at the wall. It's a daunting concrete barricade, three stories high, thorned with razor wire. Standing beside it, you feel as if you're at the base of a dam. Israeli soldiers armed with assault rifles examine your papers. They search your vehicle. No Israeli civilian, by military order, is allowed in. And few Bethlehem residents are permitted out?-the reason the wall exists here, according to the Israeli government, is to keep terrorists away from Jerusalem.

...

He [Froman] was born in what is now Israel but was then, during World War II, known as the British Mandate for Palestine (the British began governing the region in 1922, following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire). After World War II, in the wake of the Holocaust, the United Nations voted to partition the region into two states?-one Jewish, one Arab. Jews accepted the plan, Arabs did not. Fighting between Arabs and Jews began even before Israel declared independence, in 1948, and the ensuing war resulted in about 750,000 Palestinians fleeing their native villages, many of them forced to do so by the Israeli army. A large majority of these Palestinians were requested to leave by the Arabs about to attack Israel Many relocated to the West Bank of the Jordan River, administered by Jordan, or the Gaza Strip, governed by Egypt. These were the first Palestinian refugees.

Then, in 1967, Israel defeated the about to attack military forces of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon in six chaotic days and occupied, among other lands, the West Bank, a place many Israelis refer to by its biblical name, Judaea and Samaria. This initiated the settlement movement?-Jews establishing homesites throughout the newly won territory.

Froman was one of the first to go. He believes, as do many settlers, that the Jews' deed to Judaea and Samaria is spelled out in the Old Testament. They are the landlords. Froman therefore feels he has the right, granted from God, to live here. In the district of Bethlehem, which includes the city and neighboring villages, there are about 180,000 Palestinians, of whom 25,000 or so are Christian (virtually all living in urban Bethlehem and two satellite towns, Beit Jala and Beit Sahur). Woven into this map are 22 Jewish settlements, with a population approaching 80,000, and at least a dozen more frontier-style squatter encampments known as outposts, often no more than a ring of dilapidated mobile homes, like Conestoga wagons around a campfire.

Just looking out his window in Tekoa, Froman sees why everyone craves a piece of this land. For Jews still awaiting their Messiah, Froman says it's possible that he will arrive right here, in the eroded backcountry of Bethlehem, the presence of God palpable in the desert's sandpaper wind. For Christians anticipating their Messiah's return, why shouldn't he come back to the spot he was born? Muslims do not believe in a messiah?-there is only Allah, only God?-but Palestinian Muslims also revere this land as sacred, since Jesus is one of their prophets. Also Bethlehem and the surrounding West Bank, as well as the Gaza Strip and Jerusalem, are where they hope to establish a viable homeland.

The United Nations, the European Union, and the International Court of Justice have declared the Israeli settlements illegal, a violation of the Geneva Convention that prohibits occupying powers from allowing its citizens to populate the territory it occupies. The Israeli government, though, provides easy loans to those seeking houses in West Bank settlements. One of the largest in the Bethlehem area is called Har Homa. Its gleaming high-rises stand so close to Bethlehem?-just across the wall?-that it seems as if you could hold your arm out on a Palestinian street corner and hail a cab in Har Homa. It has become a full-fledged suburb, with 2,000 Israelis. About half of all settlers consider themselves nonreligious, and real estate ads in Har Homa, plastered on numerous billboards, stress the town's secular advantages. Reasonable prices; great location; such an easy commute to Jerusalem! Har Homa exemplifies an Israeli strategy known as "facts on the ground": The more Jews who live in a concentrated area on the east side of the so-called Green Line?-the armistice line established in 1949 following Israel's war of independence?-the more likely the area will become part of Israel if the region is divided into two countries. Palestinians still refer to Har Homa by its original name, Jabal Abu Ghuneim?-in Arabic, "mountain of the shepherd." It used to be one of the last open spaces in Bethlehem, a pine-shaded hillside where shepherds tended their flocks, and had done so since biblical times. Construction began in 1997; the land was shaved flat and stacked with apartment towers. Not one Palestinian who owned acreage was compensated. Its new name means "walled mountain" in Hebrew.

...

The air in that grotto, dank and musty, has the smell of history. The conflicts played out in Bethlehem are capable of transcending borders?-the future of millions of people, after all, is at stake. A major breakdown could engulf much of the globe. "It's easy to think of Bethlehem as the center of the world," says Mayor Batarseh. "This can't be a place where calm never exists. If the world is ever going to have peace, it has to start right here."
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 05:43 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, You are an idiot first class; you don't promote democracy by subjugating the others in your country. You create hatred and suicde bombers.

The WWII allies did promote democracy in Germany and Japan by first conquering them ... all of them. Then the allies occupied all of both countries. Then the allies helped the people of these countries civilize themselves. Then the allies stopped their occupations of both countries.

Unless the non-Israeli Arabs in Palestine accept Israel's existance in Palestine, to civilize the Arabs in Palestine, the Israelis must do in all of Palestine, what the allies did in WWII and after in all of Germany and Japan. That is, they will have to conquer all of Palestine and then help the non-Israeli Arabs in Palestine civilize themselves. Then stop occupying that part of Palestine they did not occupy prior to the 1967 war.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 06:06 pm
After the war, the US helped those countries with rebuilding and support for democracy. Israel? Subjugation and aparthied.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 06:21 pm
ican your letting your nose drop; You said, if effect, that the US allowed/encouraged the Germans/Japanese and, Israel, hopefully, will allow the Palestinians to become civilized.
1. To raise from barbarism to an enlightened stage of development; bring out of a primitive or savage state.
2. To educate in matters of culture and refinement; make more polished or sophisticated.
If you are serious with your statements, you prove conclusively your total ignorance of the world you live in.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 06:57 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
After the war, the US helped those countries with rebuilding and support for democracy. Israel? Subjugation and aparthied.

Israel has not yet conquered all of Palestine. It cannot help non-Israeli Palestinian Arabs rebuild and be supported for democracy until either:
(1) the non-Israeli Palestinian Arabs choose to accept Israel's right to exist; or
(2) the Israelis conquer all of Palestine.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 07:20 pm
dyslexia wrote:

...
ican ... You said, [in] effect, that the US allowed/encouraged the Germans/Japanese and, Israel, hopefully, will allow the Palestinians to become civilized.
...

I actually wrote:
(1) help them reform themselves;
(2) helped the people of these countries civilize themselves;
(3) help non-Israeli Palestinian Arabs rebuild and be supported for democracy;
(4) help the non-Israeli Arabs in Palestine civilize themselves.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 07:24 pm
ican711nm wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
After the war, the US helped those countries with rebuilding and support for democracy. Israel? Subjugation and aparthied.

Israel has not yet conquered all of Palestine. It cannot help non-Israeli Palestinian Arabs rebuild and be supported for democracy until either:
(1) the non-Israeli Palestinian Arabs choose to accept Israel's right to exist; or
(2) the Israelis conquer all of Palestine.



Have you ever visited Israel? Evidently not///1 Palestinians in Israel are subjugated in their own country; generations have lived there - much longer than many immigrants invited by the Jewish state to take over Palestinuan land. You are a sorry excuse for a human.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 08:25 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:

...

Have you ever visited Israel? Evidently not///1 Palestinians in Israel are subjugated in their own country; generations have lived there - much longer than many immigrants invited by the Jewish state to take over Palestinuan land. ...

I have never visited Israel, but I have discussed with many of those who have visited Israel their view of how the Israeli Arabs are being treated by the Israeli Jews. Without exception they see no difference between how the Israeli Jews treat the Israeli Jews and how they treat the Israeli Arabs.

Palestine stopped being an Arab country in 1099. The residents of Palestine--including all resident Arabs and all resident Jews--have from that time forward been governed by those who were neither Arabs or Jews.

Quote:
333 BC:The Greek, Alexander the Great Conquers Palestine.
Jews stop ruling any part of Palestine.
161 BC:Maccabaen Maximum Expansion of Judaea to All Palestine Plus.
Jews start ruling part of Palestine.
135 BC:Maccabaen Maximum Expansion Ends.
40 BC:The Roman, Herod Conquers Palestine.
73 AD:Fall of Jerusalem and all resistance ceases.
Jews stop ruling any part of Palestine.
638 AD:Arabs take Jerusalem.
Arabs start ruling part of Palestine.
1099 AD:Crusaders take Palestine.
Arabs stop ruling any part of Palestine.

1187 AD:Saladin Takes Palestine.
1229 AD:Saladin/Crusader Treaty.
1244 AD:Turks Take Palestine.
1516 AD:Ottoman Empire Begins Governing Palestine.
1831 AD:Egypt Conquers Palestine.
1841 AD:Ottoman Empire Again Conquers Palestine.
1915 AD:British Ambassador to Egypt Promises Palestine to Arabs.
1917 AD:British Foreign Minister Balfour Promises Palestine to Zionists.
1918 AD:Ottoman Empire Ends Control of Palestine.
1918 AD:British Protectorate of Palestine Begins.
1947 AD:UN resolution calls for partition of Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab State.
1948 AD: Jews declare Israel an independent state within Palestine.
1948 AD:Civil war breaks out between Jews and Arabs.
1948 AD:State of Israel conquers part of Palestine.
Jews start ruling part of Palestine; and, Arabs start ruling part of Palestine.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2026 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 03/12/2026 at 09:45:49