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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2007 06:42 pm
ican wrote:
Those who make excuses for the crippling perpetrated by moral cripples are themselves moral cripples, because they encourage moral cripples to continue being moral cripples by relieving them of responsibility for their moral crippling.


And round, and round it goes. . .
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2007 07:10 pm
InfraBlue wrote:
ican wrote:
Those who make excuses for the crippling perpetrated by moral cripples are themselves moral cripples, because they encourage moral cripples to continue being moral cripples by relieving them of responsibility for their moral crippling.


And round, and round it goes. . .

Quote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Nov, 2007 07:38 am
Quote:
And round, and round it goes. . .
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Nov, 2007 12:10 pm
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Nov, 2007 02:42 pm
Revel you posted that the Palestinian Arabs claim Israel caused many of Israel's Arabs to flee Israel before the 1948 Arab-Israel war, while Israel claims those who invaded Israel caused many of Israel's Arabs to flee then.

We know that many of Israel's Arabs chose not to flee Israel prior to the 1948 war and prior to any of the other Arab-Israel wars subsequently. How do we know that? We know that because over a million Arabs live in Israel and continue to choose not to flee Israel.

Does it really make sense to you that Israel caused those Arabs to flee when so many chose to remain in Israel? Of course it doesn't make sense. For some but not all Arabs to flee Israel, it had to be because those about to make war on Israel told them to leave. If Israel had told them to leave, they all would have eventually left.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 09:32 am
Nonetheless; Ican; the subject of who expelled the Palestinians from Israel has remained a subject of controversy since it happened. Its simply too complicated and time consuming and I really don't feel equal (informed)to it to get into the debate.

http://labyrinth.net.au/~ajds/mendes.htm


If there were no creation of Israel then there would have been no exodus of Palestinians from their homes, no matter who forced forced them out. If they didn't leave; where would all the Jewish settlers have built their homes? Israel is only so big.

In any event; there was a UN resolution which called for the return of said refugees which has yet to take place.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 03:16 pm
revel wrote:

...
Nonetheless; Ican; the subject of who expelled the Palestinians from Israel has remained a subject of controversy since it happened. Its simply too complicated and time consuming and I really don't feel equal (informed)to it to get into the debate.

Few Arabs were forced to leave Israel. These few were forced by Israeli crazies. The hundreds of thousands of Arabs that fled Israel were told to leave Israel by those about to invade Israel. They told them to leave in order to avoid harming them by their invasion. All of the Arabs were told to leave Israel, but not all chose to leave.

...

If there were no creation of Israel then there would have been no exodus of Palestinians from their homes.

If there were no mass murder of Jews in Europe by Hitler, there woul have been no Israel.

...

In any event; there was a UN resolution which called for the return of said refugees which has yet to take place.

The Jews in Israel rejected that UN resolution. There was a UN resolution before that that called for creation of Arab and Jewish states existing peacefully side by side in Palestine. The Arabs rejected that UN resolution.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 03:49 pm
Quote:
If there were no mass murder of Jews in Europe by Hitler, there woul have been no Israel.


So Palestinians have to pay for the crimes of Hitler?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 06:01 pm
revel wrote:
Quote:
If there were no mass murder of Jews in Europe by Hitler, there woul have been no Israel.


So Palestinians have to pay for the crimes of Hitler?

Of course not all Palestinian Arabs have to pay for the crimes of Hitler. Certainly not those who did not choose to flee when told to by the Arab confederation that invaded Israel in 1948. Only those who allied with Hitler during WWII, or fled and are dedicated to eliminating Israel, have to pay.

While that may or may not be justice, it is cause and effect.

None of this Arab conflict with the Jews would have happened had the Palestinian Arabs agreed to the UN resolution calling for two states in Palestine instead of none.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 06:49 pm
ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:
Quote:
If there were no mass murder of Jews in Europe by Hitler, there woul have been no Israel.


So Palestinians have to pay for the crimes of Hitler?

Of course not all Palestinian Arabs have to pay for the crimes of Hitler. Certainly not those who did not choose to flee when told to by the Arab confederation that invaded Israel in 1948. Only those who allied with Hitler during WWII, or fled and are dedicated to eliminating Israel, have to pay.

While that may or may not be justice, it is cause and effect.

None of this Arab conflict with the Jews would have happened had the Palestinian Arabs agreed to the UN resolution calling for two states in Palestine instead of none.




Forget it Ican; you look at things in such a warped biased view that it is useless to try and reason with you.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 07:35 pm
revel wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:
Quote:
If there were no mass murder of Jews in Europe by Hitler, there woul have been no Israel.


So Palestinians have to pay for the crimes of Hitler?

Of course not all Palestinian Arabs have to pay for the crimes of Hitler. Certainly not those who did not choose to flee when told to by the Arab confederation that invaded Israel in 1948. Only those who allied with Hitler during WWII, or fled and are dedicated to eliminating Israel, have to pay.

While that may or may not be justice, it is cause and effect.

None of this Arab conflict with the Jews would have happened had the Palestinian Arabs agreed to the UN resolution calling for two states in Palestine instead of none.




Forget it Ican; you look at things in such a warped biased view that it is useless to try and reason with you.

It's logic! Sure does get in the way of serious fantasy!
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2007 07:54 am
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2007 11:47 am
I disagree with Dershowitz on most issues relating to politics.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2007 10:30 pm
Independent Online

Olmert: 'If talks fail, Israel will be finished'
By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem

Published: 30 November 2007

The state of Israel would be "finished" if prospects of a two-state solution collapsed, its Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has warned. Two opinion polls have shown widespread scepticism among the Israeli public about this week's Annapolis summit.

Mr Olmert told the liberal daily Haaretz: "If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is finished."

Mr Olmert's warning - raising however obliquely a highly sensitive comparison with apartheid South Africa - came as a poll in the newspaper showed that only 17 per cent thought the Annapolis conference a "success" - compared with 42 per cent who thought it was a "failure".

A similar poll in Yedhiot Ahronot showed 50 per cent judging the conference a failure, with 83 per cent saying they need not expect a "final status" agreement by the end of 2008, the timetable fixed by the summit.

Mr Olmert appeared to be half-borrowing an argument used by the Israeli left and increasing numbers of Palestinians that if the occupation is not swiftly ended and a Palestinian state established, the alternative is a single state in which both Palestinians and Israelis would eventually have equal rights - negating Israel's status as a "Jewish democratic state".

Unlike those critics of Israeli policy hitherto, he was careful not to declare explicitly that time for a two-state solution was running out, or venture a prediction of when such a "collapse" of the two-state solution might take place. Nor did he repeat the specific warning by the Israeli writer Amos Oz last week that the collapse of current efforts to negotiate a solution might lead to that very "demise" of the two-state solution. Oz said that the two alternatives to such a solution were either a single state or an "Israeli apartheid regime".

On the other hand his relatively apocalyptic warning is likely to be quoted back at him if the year of negotiations ushered in by Annapolis ends in the failure that most Israelis appear to expect.

Mr Olmert insisted that he had said similar things in an interview with the newspaper four years ago. In that interview, however. Mr Olmert was contemplating unilateral withdrawal from large parts of the occupied territories and strongly denounced the "Geneva Accord" - reached between the left-wing Israeli politician Yossi Beilin and Yasser Abed Rabbo, now a key Palestinian negotiator. The Geneva proposals - based on 1967 borders with "modifications" requiring an equal land swap, East Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital and extensive compensation for refugees - is thought to be close to the minimum that the Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, might seek to accept in any final status agreement.

The Haaretz poll indicated that despite their scepticism about the prospect of a negotiated agreement, 53 per cent wanted one on the main issues, with 38 per cent objecting to such an agreement.

The poll also showed that 22 per cent were now satisfied with Mr Olmert as Prime Minister after a slow rise since his record slump in popularity after the Lebanon war.

The police yesterday recommended against prosecuting him over his handling of the privatisation of the Bank Leumi when he was finance minister, citing a "lack of evidence" that he had interfered to benefit a friend.

* Four Hamas militants were killed by air strikes in southern Gaza last night after what the military said was a rise in mortar and Qassam rocket attacks on Israel over the past week.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article3209894.ece

-------------------

The biggest fear of the Zionists is that their ethnocentrically oppressive and discriminatory state of Israel will become a singular, democratic and egalitarian nation for both Jews and Palestine. As Olmert says, fretting over the possible collapse of the two state solution, "then, as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is finished."

The reality to which the Israeli writer Amos Oz is completely oblivious to is that Israel by all intents and purposes already is an apartheid state, and has been since it ethnically cleansed most of its population of Palestinians during the 1948 war, through to its concentration of the Palestinians in the West Bank into increasingly circumscribed camps as it slowly and methodically expropriates more and more West Bank territory.

The one truly just and moral solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict is the establishment of a singular, pluralistic and egalitarian state for all of the peoples therein.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2007 10:33 pm
Can we still expect miracles to happen? They need it in Israel/Palestine.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 10:40 am
It seems that Infra, CI, et al., won't be happy until Israel is destroyed.

As for Olmert, he was wrong in those statements, and was hardly speaking for the vast majority of Israelis.

Israel is already an inclusive and tolerant democracy. Its enemies here and elsewhere feel otherwise because Israel defends itself, and even retaliates on occasion. They should look to Palestine, and the other Arab countries, in which minorities are persecuted or murdered. Interestingly, many of those people have sought, and received, asylum in Israel.

Infra, CI, had, say, German-Americans moved to Germany before WWII to help Germany, would you be pushing for their, and their heir's, repatriation to the USA? Be honest!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 10:45 am
Advocate: It seems that Infra, CI, et al., won't be happy until Israel is destroyed.

Israel is on the road to destroy itself. You cannot have peace by aparthied no matter which country you wish to discuss. It certainly will not work in the US; what makes you think it will work in Israel/Palestine?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:09 am
No matter how you spell it, there ain't no apartheid in Israel. It is very present in Palestine and the Arab countries.

Main Entry: apart·heid
Function: noun
Pronunciation: &-'pär-"tAt, -"tīt
Etymology: Afrikaans, from Dutch, from apart apart + -heid -hood
1 : racial segregation ; specifically : a policy of segregation and political and economic discrimination against non-European groups in the Republic of So. Africa
2 : SEPARATION , SEGREGATION <I> <sexual>

Merriam-Webster
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 11:11 am
Subject: Wailing Wall


>A female CNN journalist heard about a very old Jewish man who had been
>going to the Western Wall to pray, twice a day, every day, for a long, long
>time.
>
> So she went to check it out. She went to the Western Wall and there he
> was, walking slowly up to the holy site.
>
> She watched him pray and after about 45 minutes, when he turned to leave,
> using a cane and moving very slowly, she approached him for an interview.
> "Pardon me, sir, I'm Rebecca Smith from CNN. What's your name?
>
> "Morris Fishbien," he replied.
>
> "Sir, how long have you been coming to the Western Wall and praying?"
>
> "For about 60 years."
>
> "60 years! That's amazing! What do you pray for?"
>
> "I pray for peace between t he Christians, Jews and the Muslims."
>
> "I pray for all the wars and all the hatred to stop. "
>
> "I pray for all our children to grow up safely as responsible adults, and
> to love their fellow man."
>
> "How do you feel after doing this for 60 years?"
>
> "Like I'm talkin' to a f---in' wall."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:14 pm
Advocate, You may continue to deny the aparthied of Israel, but facts cannot be washed away with myopia.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=208373
0 Replies
 
 

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