ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Nothing like a biased source giving an account of history.

History is not my thing; but I do know that prior to the creation of Israel there were Palestinians in the area who lived there and then had to leave after the war of independence and are still not allowed to return despite an UN resolution to do so. So the analogy stands.

Quote:

11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;

http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/22566.htm

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Quote:

Americans continue to strongly support Israel, according to a nationwide survey released by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today. The survey's findings demonstrate that the American people recognize that Israel is a crucial U.S. ally in the war on terror and believe that a Palestinian state must not be established until the Palestinians demonstrate a commitment to end violence and accept Israel's legitimacy.

The 2007 Survey of American Attitudes Towards Israel, The Palestinians and Prospects for Peace in the Middle East, a national telephone survey of 2,000 American adults, was conducted October 6 through October 19, 2007.

Sixty-five percent (65%) of Americans agree that Israel can be counted on as a strong, reliable U.S. ally, and 65% believe that Israel is serious about reaching a peace agreement with the Palestinians [view graph]. When asked with whom their sympathies lie, 45% said Israel; 16% said the Palestinians, compared to 42%-13% in 2005 and 40-15% in 2003.

2007 Survey of American Attitudes Towards Israel, The Palestinians and Prospects for Peace in the Middle East (PDF)

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Americans continue to remain ignorant about what the Israel democracy is all about. They hear "democracy," and don't bother to find out anything else.

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revel wrote:

Advocate wrote:
BS, the Pals live for the destruction of Israel. They have rejected peace at every turn.

If someone came in and took over your house and then 'allowed' you to live in parts of it and those parts not the best parts; wouldn't you be pretty fed up as well?

It was never "their house." There was no Pal country when Israel was established.

As usual, George gives no support for his wild statements.

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Advocate wrote:

revel wrote:
Advocate wrote:
BS, the Pals live for the destruction of Israel. They have rejected peace at every turn.

If someone came in and took over your house and then 'allowed' you to live in parts of it and those parts not the best parts; wouldn't you be pretty fed up as well?

It was never "their house." There was no Pal country when Israel was established.

As usual, George gives no support for his wild statements.

There were people who lived and owned property in the area now called Israel who had to move out once Israel became a state. They still have not been allowed to to return back to their houses.

I can understand wanting to give the Jews who suffered the holocaust a place to live and the Jews had a history with the area. However; in the process of doing one good deed we did a bad deed which still affects a lot of people to this day. This is bound to cause resentment which fuels the hatred which casuses the violence. It is really not hard to understand.

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revel wrote:

Advocate wrote:
revel wrote:
Advocate wrote:
BS, the Pals live for the destruction of Israel. They have rejected peace at every turn.

If someone came in and took over your house and then 'allowed' you to live in parts of it and those parts not the best parts; wouldn't you be pretty fed up as well?

It was never "their house." There was no Pal country when Israel was established.

As usual, George gives no support for his wild statements.

There were people who lived and owned property in the area now called Israel who had to move out once Israel became a state. They still have not been allowed to to return back to their houses.

I can understand wanting to give the Jews who suffered the holocaust a place to live and the Jews had a history with the area. However; in the process of doing one good deed we did a bad deed which still affects a lot of people to this day. This is bound to cause resentment which fuels the hatred which casuses the violence. It is really not hard to understand.

In 1948, many but not all Arabs that were living in the new state of Israel, fled when told to do so by the Egyptians and others preparing to invade the new state of Israel. Some returned right after Israel won that war. The rest remained or went elsewhere. Subsequently, after many terrorist attacks, Israel's government decided to deny those who fled and had not quickly returned after the war was over, the right of return. Israel's government believed that those people were or would be terrorists or terrorist supporters. They were terrified about what those Arabs might try to do to them.

There are about a million Arabs living in Israel today. A great many are the progeny of those Arabs that remained in or returned to Israel in 1948.

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It will be a miracle if the forthcoming meeting in Annapolis to settle Pal matters succeeds. The Bush administration has invested virtually nothing in the meeting, which doesn't even have an agenda. But hope springs eternal. Moreover, some think that it is a matter of time before Hamas takes over the WB.

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Like I said; Ican, nothing like a biased source giving an account of history. That's the trouble with trying to learn the history of the Palestine/Israel trouble. All sides have different versions.

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Revel, you seem to revel in your ignorance. How does it feel to be fact-proof? Everything Icann said is true.

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revel wrote:

Like I said; Ican, nothing like a biased source giving an account of history. That's the trouble with trying to learn the history of the Palestine/Israel trouble. All sides have different versions.

I am biased;
You are biased;
All God's children are biased;
Except the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Smile

WHO REALLY OWNS PALESTINE?

Here's an abbreviated chronology of the land now called Palestine (some years are approximate). The Encyclopedia Britannica, "Palestine," is the source.

Britannica wrote:

2000 BC: First Canaanite Culture.
1400 BC: Eqypt conquers Palestine
1300 BC: First Israelite Culture.
1100 BC: First Philistine Culture (Philistra, evolved to the name Palestine).
1000 BC: Saul King of Israel governs all Palestine except
................Philistra and Phoenicia).
0950 BC: Solomon King of Israel.
0721 BC: Israel conquered, but Judaea continues.
0516 BC: 2nd Temple in Judaea.
0333 BC:The Greek, Alexander the Great conquers
................Palestine.
0161 BC: Maccabaen Maximum Expansion of Judaea to
................conquer all Palestine Plus.
0135 BC: Maccabaen Maximum Expansion Ends.
0040 BC: Romans conquer part of Palestine.
0073 AD: Jerusalem conquered and all resistance ceases.
0638 AD: Arabs conquer Jerusalem.
1099 AD: Crusaders conquer Palestine.
1187 AD: Saladin conquers Palestine.
1229 AD: Saladin/Crusader Treaty.
1244 AD: Turks conquer Palestine.
1516 AD: Ottoman Empire Begins Governing Palestine.
1831 AD: Egypt conquers Palestine.
1841 AD: Ottoman Empire Again conquers Palestine.
...
1918: Ottoman Empire Ends Control of Palestine. British Protectorate of Palestine Begins.
...
1920: 5 Jews killed 200 wounded in anti-zionist riots in Palestine.
1921: 46 Jews killed 146 wounded in anti-zionist riots in Palestine.
1929: 133 Jews killed, 339 wounded. 116 Arabs killed, 232 wounded.
1936-1939: 329 Jews killed, 857 wounded. 3,112 Arabs killed 1,775 wounded. 135 Brits killed, 386 wounded. 110 Arabs hanged, 5,679 jailed.
...
1947: UN resolution partitions Palestine into a Jewish State and into an Arab State.

1948: Jews declare independence and establish the State of Israel.

1948: War breaks out between Jews defending Israel and Arabs attempting to invade Israel. State of Israel successfully defends itself and
conquers part of Arab Palestine.
...

Wikipedia wrote:

TERRORISM OF JEWS

But of course like everyone but Britannica, Wikipedia is biased too.

1970: Avivim school bus massacre by Palestinian PLO members, killing nine children, three adults and crippling 19.

1972: Black September kidnaps and kills eleven Israeli Olympic athletes and one German policeman in the Munich Massacre.

1974: Kiryat Shmona massacre at an apartment building by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members, killing 18 people, nine of whom were children.

1974: Ma'alot massacre at the Ma'alot High School in Northern Israel by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members: 26 of the hostages were killed, 66 wounded.

1975: In the Savoy Operation PLO gunmen from Lebanon take dozens of hostages at the Tel Aviv Savoy Hotel eventually killing eight hostages and three IDF soldiers, and wounding eleven hostages.

1976: Hijacking of Air France Flight 139 (Tel Aviv-Paris) by Palestinian PFLP and German Revolutionäre Zellen; see Operation Entebbe: four hostages, one Sayeret Matkal soldier and 45 Ugandian soldiers killed.

1978: Members of the Arab Revolutionary Council poison Israeli oranges with mercury, injuring at least twelve people and reducing exports by 40 percent.

1978: Coastal Road massacre: Fatah gunmen killed several tourists and hijack a bus near Haifa; 37 Israelis on the bus are killed.

1984: three killed and nine injured in the bombing of a civilian bus in Ashdod.

1984: 48 people are wounded by a machine gun attack on a crowded shopping mall in Jerusalem.

1986: A bomb place on a bus in the West Bank kills one and severely injures three.

1990: PLF attack in the beaches on Tel Aviv.

1990: PLO attack on the US embassy.

1992: Israeli Embassy bombing by "Islamic Jihad" in Buenos Aires, Argentina; 29 killed, 242 injured.

1994: Bombing of Jewish Center in Buenos Aires, Argentina, kills 86 and wounds 300.

1996: A series of four suicide bombings in Israel leave 60 dead and 284 wounded within 10 days.
...
2001: Israeli infant Shalhevet Pass is fatally shot in the head by a Palestinian sniper in Hebron.

2001: 21 civilians, mostly teenagers from the former Soviet Union, are killed by a Hamas suicide bomber in the Dolphinarium massacre in Tel Aviv, Israel.

2001: A suicide bomber in Jerusalem kills seven and wounds 130 in the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing; Hamas and Islamic Jihad claim responsibility.

2001: Israeli tourism minister Rehavam Zeevi is assassinated by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

2002: A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 30 and injures 140 during Passover festivities in a hotel in Netanya, Israel in the Passover massacre.

2002: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 15 and injures over 40 in Haifa, Israel, in the Matza restaurant massacre.

2002: A Hamas suicide bomber detonates himself on a bus in Jerusalem in the Patt junction massacre. The attack kills 19 people and wounds over 74.

2002: Hamas orchestrates the Jerusalem bus 20 massacre. 11 people were killed and over 50 wounded when a suicide bomber detonated on a crowded bus in central Jerusalem.

2003: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 17 people and wounds 53 when he detonates a bomb hidden under his clothing in the Haifa bus 37 massacre.

2003: Jerusalem bus 2 massacre: A Hamas suicide bomber detonates himself on a crowded bus carrying mostly Orthodox Jewish Israelis, including many children returning from the Western Wall. 23 people are killed and over 130 wounded.

2003: A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 21 and wounds 51 in a Haifa restaurant in the Maxim restaurant massacre.

2004: Jerusalem bus 19 massacre: Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades orchestrate a suicide bombing on a bus in Jerusalem, Israel killing 11 people and wounding more than 50.

2004: Israeli soldiers arrest Hussam Abdo, a 15 year-old Palestinian boy with explosives strapped to his chest at the Hawara Checkpoint. The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades sent Abdo on a suicide mission to bomb the checkpoint.

2004: Pregnant Israeli commuter Tali Hatuel and her four young children are gunned down at close range by militants from the Popular Resistance Committees and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

2005: A suicide bomber in Tel Aviv kills five Israelis and undermines a weeks-old truce between the two sides.

2005: Islamic Jihad takes responsibility for a suicide bombing in Netanya, Israel, which kills five people at a shopping mall.

2005: Jewish settler in an IDF uniform opens fire on a bus in Shfaram, Israel, killing 4 Israeli Arabs and wounding 5.

2005: A Palestinian suicide bomber detonates a bomb near a falafel stand in Hadera, Israel that kills himself and six others. Twenty-six people were also wounded.

2005: A suicide bomb attack kills at least five people in Netanya in north-western Israel.

2006: Qassam rockets fired by Hamas into Israel, especially the cities of Ashkelon and Sderot, injures many citizens.

2006: Palestinian suicide bomber kills himself and four others at Kedumim Junction in the West Bank.

2006: Sami Hammad, a Palestinian suicide bomber, detonates an explosive device in Tel Aviv, Israel, killing eleven people and injuring 70.

2006: Eliyahu Asheri, an Israeli citizen, was kidnapped and murdered by the Palestinian terrorist group, the Popular Resistance Committees (PRC).

SO I ASK AGAIN, WHO REALLY OWNS PALESTINE?

BY THE WAY

The Palestinian Arabs and their cohorts chose not to create a Palestinian Arab state in East Jurusalem, Gaza, and the West Bank from 1948 to 1967, when it could have easily been accomplished before there were any Jewish settlements there.

After the Arabs lost their 1967 war with Israel, the Arab Conference in Kartoum in the summer of 1967 decided not to make peace with Israel, not to negotiate with Israel, and not to recognize Israel.

The Palestinian leadership in the fall of 2000, decided not to accept an independent Palestinian state. Instead it launched a four year bombing campaign against Israel's civilian population.

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From the time after the first world war that the British began to implement its promise to the Zionists to establish a national homeland for Jews in Palestine through their mandate, Palestinian endeavors to build national democratic institutions as the preliminary steps to statehood were thwarted by the British as the latter gave precedence to the Zionists' nationalist endeavors in Palestine. The British had hardly considered Palestinian nationalist aspirations at all, merely referring to them in its Balfour Declaration as "existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine," and in its Palestine Mandate simply as "other sections of the population." The thrust of Britain's involvement in Palestine was from the start detrimentally prejudiced against the very peoples indigenous to Palestine in favor of a people from Central and Eastern Europe.

Palestinian efforts to establish a parliament along democratic electorial lines were rebuffed by the British colonial secretary Lord Passfield who in a May 1930 meeting with Palestinian delegates responded thusly:

Of course, this Parliament as you call it that you ask for, would have to have as its duty the carrying out of the Mandate . . . the Mandatory power, that is the British government, could not create any council except within which the terms of the Mandate and for the purpose of carrying out the Mandate. This is the limit of our power . . . Would you mind considering our difficulty that we cannot create a Parliament which would not be responsible and feel itself responsible for carrying out the Mandate?

In effect Passfield was asking the Palestinian majority to put aside its own nationalist aspirations for the nationalist aspirations of the tiny minority of Zionist immigrants in Palestine.

In terms of external support for Palestinian efforts to build pre-state institutions, the colonialist powers in the area largely thwarted the efforts of the Arab populations under their control from supporting and contributing to the Palestinians. Rashid Khalidi in his book, "The Iron Cage: The Story of the Palestinian Struggle for Statehood," describes how France through its Foreign Ministry in Paris and its colonial officials in Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia prevented the sending of funds from these countries' peoples to the people of Palestine. France also prevented the travel of emissaries from the Maghribi community in Palestine to North Africa to request aid for the Palestinians such as after the 1929 Wailing Wall disturbances. In contrast France enabled the flow of large sums of capital to the yishuv from the Jewish communities of those selfsame North African countries whose non-Jewish populations it had blocked from sending aid to the Palestinians, and it facilitated the traveling of Palestinian Zionists to these North African countries under its control.

Another aspect of colonialist repression of the Palestinian's quest for self-determination is Britain's time worn policy of divide and conquer that it would implement against the peoples in the lands it would subjugate. Britain created al -Majlis al-Islami al-A'la or the Supreme Muslim Council to which was given unprecedented authority over the traditional religio-political offices in Palestine such as the qadis the judges in the sharia court of appeal, the local muftis--Islamic scholar who are interpreters or expounders of Islamic law--and the employees of various other institutions such as schools, orphanages and religious centers. Britain also created the title of mufti filastin al-akbar or Grand Mufti out of the traditional office of mufti for Jerusalem of the Hanafi rite which, as Khalidi explains, "of the four Sunni legal and religious rites had the largest following in Palestine, and had been the official rite of the Ottoman state). The new position of 'Grand Mufti' was given authority over other religio-political offices which had until then been either of equal standing such as the na'ib or the chief secretary of the shaira court of appeal, or superior to the position of mufti such as the qadis the judges in the sharia court of appeal. As a requisite of these various positions, all of the appointees were obligated to refrain from opposing Britain's Mandate in Palestine and it's goal of creating a Zionist homeland at the expense of Palestinian self-determination. Britain played these institutions newly created by itself against organizations formed by other Palestinians of their own volition such as the Palestine Arab Congress which was a countrywide movement organized to oppose Britain's occupation of Palestine, and it's plan to impose a Zionist state therein. Needless to say, Britain refused to recognize the legitimacy and representative nature of the congress. This playing of Palestinians against each other was a major factor in the infighting that plagued the early Palestinian leadership and kept it weak and ultimately ineffective and ineffectual.

By the time the British dropped the problem it had created in Palestine onto the lap of the UN, and the latter's infamous recommendation to partition the country along ethnic lines, the Palestinians had no real or firm state structures through which to operate as a polity. After the 1948 war the territory that the UN recommended for allotment to the Palestinians was divided between Israel, Jordan and Egypt. After the 1967 war Israel arrogated and occupied the territories that Jordan and Egypt had previously controlled (the West Bank and Gaza Strip respectively). Today the Palestinians have a weak, quasi-national jurisdiction, the Palestinian National Authority, which operates under the utter stricture of the state of Israel.

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Advocate wrote:

Revel, you seem to revel in your ignorance. How does it feel to be fact-proof? Everything Icann said is true.

When I said there are two sides I mean to this statement: (I should have made it clearer)

Quote:

fled when told to do so by the Egyptians and others preparing to invade the new state of Israel.

One side says the Arabs forced them to leave and the other side says they were forced out by Israel. Western history books will say one thing; and eastern history will say another.

Either way it goes, non jews lived in the area at the time Israel was created; they were forced out for one reason or another and still not able to return even after a UN mandate in 1948 said they could return.

Quote:

In December 1948, the UN General Assembly passed Resolution 194 which declared (amongst other things) that in the context of a general peace agreement "refugees wishing to return to their homes and live in peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so" and that "compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return." The resolution also mandated the creation of the United Nations Conciliation Commission. However, parts of the resolution were never implemented, resulting in the Palestinian refugee crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_194

Of course like the rest of this conflict this resolution is disputed as well.

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This makes interesting reading.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2212584,00.html

When night falls, the assassins gather in Hayaniya Square

In the second of two remarkable dispatches from Iraq, our award-winning correspondent chronicles life in the southern city following the British troop withdrawal

Ghaith Abdul-Ahad in Basra

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InfraBlue wrote:

...

By the time the British dropped the problem it had created in Palestine onto the lap of the UN, and the latter's infamous recommendation to partition the country along ethnic lines, the Palestinians had no real or firm state structures through which to operate as a polity. After the 1948 war the territory that the UN recommended for allotment to the Palestinians was divided between Israel, Jordan and Egypt. After the 1967 war Israel arrogated and occupied the territories that Jordan and Egypt had previously controlled (the West Bank and Gaza Strip respectively). Today the Palestinians have a weak, quasi-national jurisdiction, the Palestinian National Authority, which operates under the utter stricture of the state of Israel.

Because after the 1948 war to just prior to the 1967 war, Jordan and Egypt controlled, respectively, the West Bank and Gaza Strip, then it is not the British or Americans that should be blamed for the failure of the Palestinian Arabs to establish their own independent state in Palestine during that period. The leadership of Jordan and Egypt during that period should be blamed.

As I previously posted:

Quote:

The Palestinian Arabs and their cohorts chose not to create a Palestinian Arab state in East Jurusalem, Gaza, and the West Bank from 1948 to 1967, when it could have easily been accomplished before there were any Jewish settlements there.

After the Arabs lost their 1967 war with Israel, the Arab Conference in Kartoum in the summer of 1967 decided not to make peace with Israel, not to negotiate with Israel, and not to recognize Israel.

The Palestinian leadership in the fall of 2000, decided not to accept an independent Palestinian state. Instead it launched a four year bombing campaign against Israel's civilian population.

The Palestinian Arabs also made a series of bad--some say evil--choices beginning way back in 1920. It is their behavior that is also to blame for their current predicament.

As I previously posted from the Encyclopedia Britanniica:

Quote:

1918: Ottoman Empire Ends Control of Palestine. British Protectorate of Palestine Begins.

1920: 5 Jews killed 200 wounded in anti-zionist riots in Palestine.

1921: 46 Jews killed 146 wounded in anti-zionist riots in Palestine.

1929: 133 Jews killed 339 wounded 116 Arabs killed 232 wounded.

1936-1939: 329 Jews killed 857 wounded. 3,112 Arabs killed 1,775 wounded; 135 Brits killed 386 wounded; 110 Arabs hanged 5,679 jailed.

1947: UN resolution partitions Palestine into a Jewish State and into an Arab State.

1948: Jews declare independence and establish the State of Israel.

1948: War breaks out between Jews defending Israel and Arabs attempting to invade Israel. State of Israel successfully defends itself and
conquers part of Arab Palestine.

Quote:

TERRORISM OF JEWS
1970: Avivim school bus massacre by Palestinian PLO members, killing nine children, three adults and crippling 19.

1972: Black September kidnaps and kills eleven Israeli Olympic athletes and one German policeman in the Munich Massacre.

1974: Kiryat Shmona massacre at an apartment building by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members, killing 18 people, nine of whom were children.

1974: Ma'alot massacre at the Ma'alot High School in Northern Israel by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members: 26 of the hostages were killed, 66 wounded.

1975: In the Savoy Operation PLO gunmen from Lebanon take dozens of hostages at the Tel Aviv Savoy Hotel eventually killing eight hostages and three IDF soldiers, and wounding eleven hostages.

1976: Hijacking of Air France Flight 139 (Tel Aviv-Paris) by Palestinian PFLP and German Revolutionäre Zellen; see Operation Entebbe: four hostages, one Sayeret Matkal soldier and 45 Ugandian soldiers killed.

1978: Members of the Arab Revolutionary Council poison Israeli oranges with mercury, injuring at least twelve people and reducing exports by 40 percent.

1978: Coastal Road massacre: Fatah gunmen killed several tourists and hijack a bus near Haifa; 37 Israelis on the bus are killed.

1984: three killed and nine injured in the bombing of a civilian bus in Ashdod.

1984: 48 people are wounded by a machine gun attack on a crowded shopping mall in Jerusalem.

1986: A bomb place on a bus in the West Bank kills one and severely injures three.

1990: PLF attack in the beaches on Tel Aviv.

1990: PLO attack on the US embassy.

1992: Israeli Embassy bombing by "Islamic Jihad" in Buenos Aires, Argentina; 29 killed, 242 injured.

1994: Bombing of Jewish Center in Buenos Aires, Argentina, kills 86 and wounds 300.

1996: A series of four suicide bombings in Israel leave 60 dead and 284 wounded within 10 days.

2000: Terrorism against Israel.

2001: Terrorism against Israel.

2001: Israeli infant Shalhevet Pass is fatally shot in the head by a Palestinian sniper in Hebron.

2001: 21 civilians, mostly teenagers from the former Soviet Union, are killed by a Hamas suicide bomber in the Dolphinarium massacre in Tel Aviv, Israel.

2001: A suicide bomber in Jerusalem kills seven and wounds 130 in the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing; Hamas and Islamic Jihad claim responsibility.

2001: Israeli tourism minister Rehavam Zeevi is assassinated by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

2002: Terrorism against Israel in 2002.

2002: A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 30 and injures 140 during Passover festivities in a hotel in Netanya, Israel in the Passover massacre.

2002: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 15 and injures over 40 in Haifa, Israel, in the Matza restaurant massacre.

2002: A Hamas suicide bomber detonates himself on a bus in Jerusalem in the Patt junction massacre. The attack kills 19 people and wounds over 74.

2002: Hamas orchestrates the Jerusalem bus 20 massacre. 11 people were killed and over 50 wounded when a suicide bomber detonated on a crowded bus in central Jerusalem.

2003: Terrorism against Israel in 2003.

2003: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 17 people and wounds 53 when he detonates a bomb hidden under his clothing in the Haifa bus 37 massacre.

2003: Jerusalem bus 2 massacre: A Hamas suicide bomber detonates himself on a crowded bus carrying mostly Orthodox Jewish Israelis, including many children returning from the Western Wall. 23 people are killed and over 130 wounded.

2003: A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 21 and wounds 51 in a Haifa restaurant in the Maxim restaurant massacre.

2004: Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 2004.

2004: Jerusalem bus 19 massacre: Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades orchestrate a suicide bombing on a bus in Jerusalem, Israel killing 11 people and wounding more than 50.

2004: Israeli soldiers arrest Hussam Abdo, a 15 year-old Palestinian boy with explosives strapped to his chest at the Hawara Checkpoint. The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades sent Abdo on a suicide mission to bomb the checkpoint.

2004: Pregnant Israeli commuter Tali Hatuel and her four young children are gunned down at close range by militants from the Popular Resistance Committees and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

2005: A suicide bomber in Tel Aviv kills five Israelis and undermines a weeks-old truce between the two sides.

2005: Islamic Jihad takes responsibility for a suicide bombing in Netanya, Israel, which kills five people at a shopping mall.

2005: Jewish settler in an IDF uniform opens fire on a bus in Shfaram, Israel, killing 4 Israeli Arabs and wounding 5.

2005: A Palestinian suicide bomber detonates a bomb near a falafel stand in Hadera, Israel that kills himself and six others. Twenty-six people were also wounded.

2005: A suicide bomb attack kills at least five people in Netanya in north-western Israel.

2006: Qassam rockets fired by Hamas into Israel, especially the cities of Ashkelon and Sderot, injures many citizens.

2006: Palestinian suicide bomber kills himself and four others at Kedumim Junction in the West Bank.

2006: Sami Hammad, a Palestinian suicide bomber, detonates an explosive device in Tel Aviv, Israel, killing eleven people and injuring 70.

2006: Eliyahu Asheri, an Israeli citizen, was kidnapped and murdered by the Palestinian terrorist group, the Popular Resistance Committees (PRC).

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Until the Palestinian Arabs rectify the following, their misery is their own making and justly deserved--

After the Arabs lost their 1967 war with Israel, the Arab Conference in Kartoum in the summer of 1967 decided not to make peace with Israel, not to negotiate with Israel, and not to recognize Israel.

The Palestinian leadership in the fall of 2000, decided not to accept an independent Palestinian state. Instead it launched a four year bombing campaign against Israel's civilian population.

This bombing campaign was subsequently followed by more bombing campaigns against Israel's civilian population.

To rescue themselves, because no one else can, the Palestinian Arabs must:
(1) terminate their bombing of Israel;
(2) make peace with Israel;
(3) negotiate with Israel; and,
(4) recognize Israel.
.

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ican wrote:

Because after the 1948 war to just prior to the 1967 war, Jordan and Egypt controlled, respectively, the West Bank and Gaza Strip, then it is not the British or Americans that should be blamed for the failure of the Palestinian Arabs to establish their own independent state in Palestine during that period. The leadership of Jordan and Egypt during that period should be blamed.

The factors leading to the Palestinians' inability to establish their own independent state in Palestine began long before Jordan and Egypt took control of the West Bank and Gaza Strip between 1948 and 1967. Among those who share the blame for the plight of the Palestinians today are the governments of Britain, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, the US, and the Palestinian leadership.

Quote:

The Palestinian Arabs also made a series of bad--some say evil--choices beginning way back in 1920. It is their behavior that is also to blame for their current predicament.

Along with the Palestinian Arabs the Zionists also made a series of bad--some would say evil--choices beginning way back even before 1920. It is their behavior that is also to blame for the current perdicament in Israel/Palestine.

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Moral cripples would opine that a people fighting a losing battle against their discriminator oppressors would say that the misery they've sufferred therefrom is of their own making and justly deserved. Unfortunately the moral cripples reign supreme in this tragic conflict.

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Infra, let me tell you who the real moral cripples are. The Pals do not allow any minorities to live in peace among them. The Israelis allow all minorities to have equal rights and live in peace among them.

For instance, ask the Christians who have been driven out of the WB and Gaza, and relatives of Jews who were massacred in Hebron.

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InfraBlue wrote:

ican wrote:
The Palestinian Arabs also made a series of bad--some say evil--choices beginning way back in 1920. It is their behavior that is also to blame for their current predicament.

Along with the Palestinian Arabs the Zionists also made a series of bad--some would say evil--choices beginning way back even before 1920. It is their behavior that is also to blame for the current perdicament in Israel/Palestine.

Help me learn. When and how many Palestinian Arabs did the Zionists kill before 1929?

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InfraBlue wrote:

Moral cripples would opine that a people fighting a losing battle against their discriminator oppressors would say that the misery they've sufferred therefrom is of their own making and justly deserved. Unfortunately the moral cripples reign supreme in this tragic conflict.

Whether a losing, winning or tying battle, the Palestinian Arabs are moral cripples suffering misery of their own making:

ican711nm wrote:

Until the Palestinian Arabs rectify the following, their misery is their own making and justly deserved--

After the Arabs lost their 1967 war with Israel, the Arab Conference in Kartoum in the summer of 1967 decided not to make peace with Israel, not to negotiate with Israel, and not to recognize Israel.

The Palestinian leadership in the fall of 2000, decided not to accept an independent Palestinian state. Instead it launched a four year bombing campaign against Israel's civilian population.

This bombing campaign was subsequently followed by more bombing campaigns against Israel's civilian population.

To rescue themselves, because no one else can, the Palestinian Arabs must:
(1) terminate their bombing of Israel;
(2) make peace with Israel;
(3) negotiate with Israel; and,
(4) recognize Israel.

Those who make excuses for the crippling perpetrated by moral cripples are themselves moral cripples, because they encourage moral cripples to continue being moral cripples by relieving them of responsibility for their moral crippling.

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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

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