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ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2007 03:37 pm
It's about the "oil" on only one level, but the primary issue is the embassadors of Germany and the US saying they won't attend. Oil is not the issue here, it's about land control against international laws. They're not there to celebrate oil.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2007 05:05 pm
Advocate wrote:
Israel lived contentedly within the pre-1967 borders, despite hundreds of unprovoked attacks by the Pals. It was only after being invaded by the Pals and the various Arab countries that Israel moved into the Pal territory. However, Jews, as well as Christians, et al., may not live in peace in Arab areas. It is so terrible how Israel defends itself.

A blatant lie offered here with typical bland assurance. There was no "invasion" of Israel by the "Pals" or anyone else prior to the 1967 War. Israel started the hostilities in 1967, and earlier in 1956 when they invaded Siani together with the British & French.
Advocate wrote:
Further, Israel has been a wonderful ally of the USA, which can't be said of any other ME country.
Israel has been the long term recipient of the largest share of our foreign aid. Israel gets additional large U.S. credits for military hardware. Israel enjoys unlimited free access to US markets for her exports under better terms than offered to any country in the world. Israel at various times has exerted excessive influence on U.S. governments through highly developed political ties with domestic supporters and U.S. institutions. Israel has repeatedly pirated and sold classified US military trchnologies to third party nations and engaged in systematic espionage on this country. Our too often reflexive support for Israel has significantly worsened an already complex confrontation with the Islamic world, and has threatened vital U.S. security interests.

In return for all of this, exactly what is it that the United States has gotten?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2007 05:10 pm
Advocate wrote:
Regarding the countries that won't send reps to Israel, remember that the Arabs have all the oil. It is as simple as that.


No, I believe the evidence is that Israel is generally regarded as an outlaw state, aggressive, intolerant and largely friendless.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2007 05:57 pm
georgeob wrote: In return for all of this, exactly what is it that the United States has gotten?

Excellent question.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2007 06:19 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
georgeob wrote: In return for all of this, exactly what is it that the United States has gotten?

Excellent question.


Well our Congressmen get a lot of cash from their lobbies. And if our Congressmen go along with what they want they will not be called Anti-Semitic and the name that follows it-Nazi. Also they will be promised a lot of votes if they support whatever Israel wants.

So America gets nothing from Israel but our Congressmen sure do.

Quote:

http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/jewishlobby.shtml
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2007 06:28 pm
I've been called "anti-Semitic," but I've considered the source of that label. That those who use "anti-Semitic" and "Jew-haters" as a rebuff just shows they don't have a reasonable answer to all the inhuman treatment of Palestinians in Israel; they resort to adhominems.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2007 06:57 pm
his first visit to the Palestinian territories in seven years.

Abdullah had planned to meet this morning with Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, in his headquarters here. Abdullah is scheduled to meet on Tuesday with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel on the sidelines of a conference in Petra, Jordan.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2007 07:31 pm
mysteryman wrote:

And since the extremists claim to be Palestinians?


The extremists claim to be Israeli too.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 May, 2007 07:33 pm
Speaking of "extremists," we have them here in the good 'ole US of A.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:09 am
InfraBlue wrote:
mysteryman wrote:

And since the extremists claim to be Palestinians?


The extremists claim to be Israeli too.


Lets look at Palestinian media,mainly TV...

http://www.pmw.org.il/home.htm

You dont see stuff like that on Israeli TV.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 07:48 am
Granted, the Palestinian are wrong to encourage hate and violence to kids and to their fellow Palestinians. The Mickey Mouse teaching violence in class rooms is a disgrace. Perhaps with the showing of it and watching it through the rest of the world's eyes, some Palestinian will realize how counterproductive these tactics are as they only backfire on them now in this information age. They have a ways to go in PR savvy.

Nevertheless, Palestinians do have real grievances and those grievances need to be addressed in a fair and even handed manner before peace can ever be realized.

All those grievances have already been discussed here along with the counter arguments and on it goes until...who knows?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 07:53 am
A link to the latest in propaganda. You know who publishes that site, yes? Do you have any way of knowing if their translations are accurate? I've browsed their site out of sheer curiosity and found their accusations quite damning. For instance, among their translations they repeatedly say that shahada means "death for Allah". However, according to Wikipedia, it means "to testify". I don't speak Arabic so I can't translate these shows for myself. But I also don't see any reason to take these accusations from this sole dubious source as fact without some other corroborating evidence.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:24 pm
Encyclopedia Britannica wrote:
(Transcribed)

1918: Ottoman Empire Ends Control of Palestine. British Protectorate of Palestine Begins.

1920: 5 Jews killed 200 wounded in anti-zionist riots in Palestine.

1921: 46 Jews killed 146 wounded in anti-zionist riots in Palestine.

1929: 133 Jews killed 339 wounded 116 Arabs killed 232 wounded.

1936-1939: 329 Jews killed 857 wounded. 3,112 Arabs killed 1,775 wounded; 135 Brits killed 386 wounded; 110 Arabs hanged 5,679 jailed.

1947: UN resolution partitions Palestine into a Jewish State and into an Arab State.

1948: Jews declare independence and establish the State of Israel.

1948: War breaks out between Jews defending Israel and Arabs attempting to invade Israel. State of Israel successfully defends itself and
conquers part of Arab Palestine.

...
Quote:

TERRORISM OF JEWS
1970: Avivim school bus massacre by Palestinian PLO members, killing nine children, three adults and crippling 19.

1972: Black September kidnaps and kills eleven Israeli Olympic athletes and one German policeman in the Munich Massacre.

1974: Kiryat Shmona massacre at an apartment building by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members, killing 18 people, nine of whom were children.

1974: Ma'alot massacre at the Ma'alot High School in Northern Israel by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members: 26 of the hostages were killed, 66 wounded.

1975: In the Savoy Operation PLO gunmen from Lebanon take dozens of hostages at the Tel Aviv Savoy Hotel eventually killing eight hostages and three IDF soldiers, and wounding eleven hostages.

1976: Hijacking of Air France Flight 139 (Tel Aviv-Paris) by Palestinian PFLP and German Revolutionäre Zellen; see Operation Entebbe: four hostages, one Sayeret Matkal soldier and 45 Ugandian soldiers killed.

1978: Members of the Arab Revolutionary Council poison Israeli oranges with mercury, injuring at least twelve people and reducing exports by 40 percent.

1978: Coastal Road massacre: Fatah gunmen killed several tourists and hijack a bus near Haifa; 37 Israelis on the bus are killed.

1984: three killed and nine injured in the bombing of a civilian bus in Ashdod.

1984: 48 people are wounded by a machine gun attack on a crowded shopping mall in Jerusalem.

1986: A bomb place on a bus in the West Bank kills one and severely injures three.

1990: PLF attack in the beaches on Tel Aviv.

1990: PLO attack on the US embassy.

1992: Israeli Embassy bombing by "Islamic Jihad" in Buenos Aires, Argentina; 29 killed, 242 injured.

1994: Bombing of Jewish Center in Buenos Aires, Argentina, kills 86 and wounds 300.

1996: A series of four suicide bombings in Israel leave 60 dead and 284 wounded within 10 days.

2001: Israeli infant Shalhevet Pass is fatally shot in the head by a Palestinian sniper in Hebron.

2001: 21 civilians, mostly teenagers from the former Soviet Union, are killed by a Hamas suicide bomber in the Dolphinarium massacre in Tel Aviv, Israel.

2001: A suicide bomber in Jerusalem kills seven and wounds 130 in the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing; Hamas and Islamic Jihad claim responsibility.

2001: Israeli tourism minister Rehavam Zeevi is assassinated by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

2002: A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 30 and injures 140 during Passover festivities in a hotel in Netanya, Israel in the Passover massacre.

2002: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 15 and injures over 40 in Haifa, Israel, in the Matza restaurant massacre.

2002: A Hamas suicide bomber detonates himself on a bus in Jerusalem in the Patt junction massacre. The attack kills 19 people and wounds over 74.

2002: Hamas orchestrates the Jerusalem bus 20 massacre. 11 people were killed and over 50 wounded when a suicide bomber detonated on a crowded bus in central Jerusalem.

2003: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 17 people and wounds 53 when he detonates a bomb hidden under his clothing in the Haifa bus 37 massacre.

2003: Jerusalem bus 2 massacre: A Hamas suicide bomber detonates himself on a crowded bus carrying mostly Orthodox Jewish Israelis, including many children returning from the Western Wall. 23 people are killed and over 130 wounded.

2003: A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 21 and wounds 51 in a Haifa restaurant in the Maxim restaurant massacre.

2004: Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 2004.

2004: Jerusalem bus 19 massacre: Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades orchestrate a suicide bombing on a bus in Jerusalem, Israel killing 11 people and wounding more than 50.

2004: Israeli soldiers arrest Hussam Abdo, a 15 year-old Palestinian boy with explosives strapped to his chest at the Hawara Checkpoint. The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades sent Abdo on a suicide mission to bomb the checkpoint.

2004: Pregnant Israeli commuter Tali Hatuel and her four young children are gunned down at close range by militants from the Popular Resistance Committees and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

2005: A suicide bomber in Tel Aviv kills five Israelis and undermines a weeks-old truce between the two sides.

2005: Islamic Jihad takes responsibility for a suicide bombing in Netanya, Israel, which kills five people at a shopping mall.

2005: Jewish settler in an IDF uniform opens fire on a bus in Shfaram, Israel, killing 4 Israeli Arabs and wounding 5.

2005: A Palestinian suicide bomber detonates a bomb near a falafel stand in Hadera, Israel that kills himself and six others. Twenty-six people were also wounded.

2005: A suicide bomb attack kills at least five people in Netanya in north-western Israel.

2006: Qassam rockets fired by Hamas into Israel, especially the cities of Ashkelon and Sderot, injures many citizens.

2006: Palestinian suicide bomber kills himself and four others at Kedumim Junction in the West Bank.

2006: Sami Hammad, a Palestinian suicide bomber, detonates an explosive device in Tel Aviv, Israel, killing eleven people and injuring 70.

2006: Eliyahu Asheri, an Israeli citizen, was kidnapped and murdered by the Palestinian terrorist group, the Popular Resistance Committees (PRC).

...
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:46 pm
118 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 934 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/children_by_year-sm.gif

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:06 pm
Mickey Mouse becomes political mouthpiece
Aneya Fernando
Issue date: 5/14/07 Section: Opinion
PrintEmail Article Tools Page 1 of 1 The image of Mickey Mouse is as quintessentially American as Coca-Cola, McDonald's or Wal-Mart, and we usually associate that adorable little rodent with singing and dancing and overall carefree fun, right?

Well, recently, it seems that our furry friend has been manipulated into a political mouthpiece for Hamas' Al Aqsa TV station. The supposedly kid-friendly show, bizarrely titled "Tomorrow's Pioneers," seems to have stolen the image of Mickey Mouse right from under our noses.

According to a May 10 article in the Los Angeles Times, Mickey, or "Farfur" as they call him, is seen dancing and singing - but not in the right context. An excerpt of his rants include: "We, tomorrow's pioneers, will restore the glory of this nation. We will liberate Al Aqsa, inshallah; we will liberate Iraq, inshallah; and we will liberate the Muslim countries invaded by murderers," according to the article.

This is not something you normally hear out of a beloved cartoon character, and in the United States this type of blatant political propaganda would not be accepted in mainstream media. But this isn't happening in the United States. It's happening in Palestine, a country where your political ideology could get you murdered.

Of course, now that this controversy has reached American media, Palestinian Media Watch has taken the show off the air. According to the article, Palestinian Information Minister Mustafa Barghouti was quoted as saying, "Any media outlet that breaks Palestinian broadcasting law will be penalized by the Information Ministry."

But why was this show allowed on the air at all? Corrupting the minds of children by taking over their favorite TV show is conniving and manipulative and is scary to think about. It's unnerving to see a government with that much control over the media.

What's next? National news anchors discussing events only pertinent to their political agenda? Oh wait, that already happens here in the United States, and it's called Fox News. Although the United States prides itself on being a "free" nation, it's obvious that our news stations, publications and radios are all slanted one way or another. And that's perfectly fine, as long as the audience is aware of it. It's the times that we're unaware that are most detrimental to our society, and children certainly don't understand Hama's political agenda.

The fact that Palestinian TV stations have stolen our beloved Mickey isn't the important issue here. Yes, it's a terrible situation, and Hamas may have a hefty lawsuit on their hands with Disney's endless amount of attorneys. But that's not the point.

The point is that Palestinians used a familiar, likable cartoon character to brainwash innocent children, and there should be substantial consequences to such a heinous act.

Politics doesn't belong on children's television, no matter what country you live in. The children living in Palestine are already subjected to horrendous amounts of violence and hatred every day, so why bring that into their one moment of peace?

In the end, this controversy just goes to show that anything can be a political mouthpiece. Let's just hope our country never resorts to such tasteless propaganda.

Aneya Fernando is a sophomore journalism major and the assistant opinion editor for the Daily Forty-Niner.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:24 pm
Israel and Egypt are the two largest recipients of U.S. aid. For its"participation" in the Gulf War, Egypt was forgiven its indebtedness of $9 billion. Israel pays its bills. It receives $2.8 billion every year. Of that amount, $2.0 billion is for military aid and $0.8 billion for economic aid. It's fair to ask whether this is a good deal for the American taxpayer.

What are the Facts?

The only democratic country in the Middle East. Israel is the only genuinely democratic state in the Middle East. It is committed to freedom and equality, and the rule of law. It embodies the fundamental values that are in tune with those of America and that America has traditionally supported. Israel's military and political importance in the Middle East and its strategic position stabilize the entire area, including the oil fields of the Persian Gulf. During the Cold War, it was America's indispensable rampart against the inroads and expansionist ambitions of the Soviet Union. It is now a western bulwark against the aggressive intents of Iran and other bellicose nations that threaten the interests of the United States. It is a most reliable partner in the promotion of Western strategic interests and in the stabilization of the Middle East. Over 20% of its budget goes for defense, compared to 7% in the U.S. and less than 1% in Japan. Israel has one of the best armies in the world. Its navy and air force are the major deterrent forces in the eastern Mediterranean.

Israel effectively secures NATO's southeastern flank, without having a single American soldier stationed in its territory. Still, the superb military installations, the air and sea lift capabilities, the equipment and food storage capacity, and the trained manpower to maintain and repair sophisticated U.S. equipment are instantly at hand in Israel. It is the only country in the area that makes itself available to the United States, in any contingency.

Only fraction of aid stays in Israel. There is no other country in the Middle East except Israel that can be considered to have a stable government or populace friendly to the United States. There is much danger that any military aid to Arab countries, and military equipment given or sold to them, will suffer the same fate as the untold billions of dollars and priceless military secrets that were lost to our enemies in the debacle of Iran. Is Saudi Arabia more stable? Egypt? Jordan? Kuwait? Judge for yourself!

Only a fraction of the aid given stays in Israel. By far the largest share remains with American defense contractors. Peter McPherson, former administrator of the Agency for International Development, estimated that every billion dollars of aid to Israel creates 60,000 to 70,000 jobs in the United States.

Compared to the $2.0 billion yearly military aid to Israel, the U.S. contributes more than $130 billion(!) every year to the defense of Europe and more than $30 billion to the defense of Japan, Korea, and the Far East. Over 300,000 U.S. troops are stationed with NATO and over 30,000 U.S. troops in the Far East. In contrast, not one single U.S. soldier needs to be stationed and put at risk in Israel. U.S. military analysts estimate that the U.S. would have to spend the equivalent of $150 billion a year in the Middle East to maintain a force equivalent to Israel's.

There are many other benefits that the U.S. military derives from Israel. Israel is the only country that has gained battlefield experience with U.S. weapons. This experience is immediately conveyed to the U.S. Enormous quantities of captured Soviet weapons and defense systems were turned over to the U.S. military for analysis. Israel, in the light of its experience, continually modifies U.S. weapons systems. For instance, Israeli scientists have made over 200 improvements in the F-15 alone and similar improvements, mostly in avionics, in later-generation planes. It would be more in line with reality if military aid to Israel were classified as part of the defense budget, rather than as "aid". Israel is truly America's unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Middle East. Former President Reagan put it well: "The fall of Iran has increased Israel's value as perhaps the only remaining strategic asset in the region on which the United States can fully rely." American aid to Israel is a two-way street. Aid to Israel is America's greatest defense bargain.
--factsandlogic.org
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:30 pm
From Advocate's post:
"The only democratic country in the Middle East. Israel is the only genuinely democratic state in the Middle East."

If that's a genuinely democratic state, why is it that I wouldn't want to be a Palestinian in Israel? Maybe, it has to do with no legal rights to our own home and land, no freedom to move around, and a wall/fence built around "my" town to keep me in a prison-like community.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:35 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
From Advocate's post:
"The only democratic country in the Middle East. Israel is the only genuinely democratic state in the Middle East."

If that's a genuinely democratic state, why is it that I wouldn't want to be a Palestinian in Israel? Maybe, it has to do with no legal rights to our own home and land, no freedom to move around, and a fence built around "my" town to keep me in a prison-like community.


Everything you said is false. Pal Israelis can own land, vote, move around in Israel, and are not walled in.

George, again, Wikipedia says that you are all wet.


The Six-Day War (also known as the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, the Third Arab-Israeli War, Six Days' War, an‑Naksah (The Setback), or the June War, was fought between Israel and its Arab neighbours Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Algeria also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces. In the months before June 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, and called for unified Arab action against Israel. In June 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.[1] Jordan then attacked the Israeli cities of Jerusalem and Netanya.[2][3] At the war's end, Israel had gained control of the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:42 pm
False? By who's measurement? Yours? I've been to Israel, and have seen the fences and walls. We have talked to Palestinians in Israel. Have you? I was in Israel last October. When were you there?

Here's an article on the Land Grab by Jews written by Jews.


http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205_Land_Grab_Eng.pdf
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:51 pm
Your link didn't work.

Are you talking about people outside of Israel proper?
0 Replies
 
 

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