ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

I begin to believe that this was a ludicrous civilian effort from start to finish,

Advocate wrote:

The soldier was referring to a particularly intense battle. To make something more of that is a cheap, anti-Israel shot.

Can you see it as an anti-militarism comment?

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I begin to believe that this was a ludicrous civilian effort from start to finish,

Makes sense, I agree. I also suspect, though with reasoning drawn from too little data, the decision was made in co-ordination with civilians in the administration here.

It seems as though a number of you think that those Palestinian guys are neat people. Please read about the warm treatment they accorded the kidnapped Fox journalists. One doesn't read about such wonderful treatment of journalists and others by Israelis.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/fox-journalists-released-after-nearly/20060823090609990010

It seems as though a number of you think that those Palestinian guys are neat people. Please read about the warm treatment they accorded the kidnapped Fox journalists. One doesn't read about such wonderful treatment of journalists and others by Israelis.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/fox-journalists-released-after-nearly/20060823090609990010

I don't know that i'd go too far with that sort of thing--it may just have been that they thought they had an understanding which proved to be flawed. This is, remember, an administration which was sufficiently subtle that when they were pushing the rush to war, still had sense enough to send Cheney out to peddle a September 11th connection and to claim that we knew where the womd were--they played their cards very close to the cuff, and the Shrub uttered not a syllable which was not subject to plausible deniability. It is entirely possible that Olmert was taken in by calculated administration rabble-rousing, failing to understand that this is a constant technique of an administration which usually avoids taking decisions until the last moment, and only after having exhaustively "tested the waters."

I do think, though, that Olmert and Company pulled this out of their collective governmental ass without prior consultation with their own military, who don't appear to have displayed the professional expertise for which the IDF has in the past been justifiably famous.

The Bush Administration, however, was closely involved in the planning of Israel's retaliatory attacks. President Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah's heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel's security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American preëmptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground.

Israeli Siege Leaves Gaza Isolated and Desperate

By Doug Struck
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, August 28, 2006; Page A01

GAZA CITY, Aug. 27 -- As the sun beat down on the city's central market, Khitam Shahleen, 37, glumly picked through a pile of cheap pencil sharpeners, searching for something -- anything -- she could afford to buy her two sons for the start of the new school year.

"We don't have money," Shahleen said, eyes downcast beneath her head scarf. Her husband, who works as a laborer in Israel, has been trapped inside the Gaza Strip by a blockade. "We are imprisoned here," she said.

The war in southern Lebanon has overshadowed Israel's second front, a military and economic siege of the Gaza Strip that is deepening the poverty and desperation in this dense area of 1.4 million people.

Advocate wrote:

It seems as though a number of you think that those Palestinian guys are neat people. Please read about the warm treatment they accorded the kidnapped Fox journalists. One doesn't read about such wonderful treatment of journalists and others by Israelis.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/fox-journalists-released-after-nearly/20060823090609990010

...my (western) values. But what happens when such a nation/group themselves act contrary to those values? Merely because a nation/group is of the western tradition does not close the case on whether it is functioning either wisely or morally, ie Germany in 1935, or the US presently. Assassination, torture, racism, violation of international laws must gain our criticism. After WW2, there was a lot of thought and study directed towards understanding how it could have been that the citizens of a sophisticated, educated Western society such as Germany could have allowed such barbarism to have occured. Similar questions are being asked and will continue to be asked, quite properly, as to how so many americans now justify torture and permit their government to engage in it.

May I ask if you read the Nation piece I linked above?

I guess that whole trying to survive thing the Israelis do is in pretty bad taste. The most horrific atrocities by the Palestinians over the past few decades, directed against Israel and Jews in general, are, of course, excusable.

Hizbullah last night admitted it would not have captured the two Israeli soldiers last month had it known a war would follow.

The leader of the militia said that talks were going on to return the two in exchange for Lebanese prisoners held by Israel. The Israeli government refused to confirm this, although officials have said privately that a prisoner exchange was probably the only way forward.

Hizbullah crossed into north Israel early on July 12 and captured Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev. Eight other Israeli soldiers were killed, and within hours Israel and Hizbullah were plunged into their most serious conflict. By the time of the ceasefire 34 days later, more than 1,100 people were dead in Lebanon and 157 in Israel, mostly soldiers.

And most of the dead Israeli soldiers were killed in ground combat in Lebanon in an effort to spare civilian lives. But still there are those attempting to make Hezbollah look like better people than they are.

And most of the dead Israeli soldiers were killed in ground combat in Lebanon in an effort to spare civilian lives. But still there are those attempting to make Hezbollah look like better people than they are.

The war in southern Lebanon has overshadowed Israel's second front, a military and economic siege of the Gaza Strip that is deepening the poverty and desperation in this dense area of 1.4 million people.

More than 200 Palestinians, at least 44 of them children, have been killed in the past 8 1/2 weeks. Three Israeli soldiers have been killed. Huge Israeli bulldozers and "pinpoint" missiles have razed at least 40 houses and dozens of other buildings, according to the army, leaving many families homeless.

Daily skirmishes regularly result in new casualties. The Israelis attack with tanks, F-16 jets and artillery. [Early Monday, an Israeli airstrike killed four members of the Hamas-led security force in the Gaza Strip, the Reuters news agency reported, citing medics and witnesses. An Israeli army spokeswoman confirmed the report, but said two of the men were apparently killed by gunfire from ground troops.]

The Palestinians launch an average of about six crude Qassam rockets a week into Israel, causing minimal damage, no fatalities and about a dozen injuries since June 28, an army spokesman said.

"Any Qassam fired toward Israel is one too many," said Maj. Tal Lev-Ram, a spokesman for the Israeli army's Southern Command. "Every act of terrorism against Israel will be dealt with severely from our side."

After Israel completed its unilateral withdrawal from Gaza last September, ending a 38-year presence, Palestinians expected an explosion of commerce and opportunity in this sandy strip, which is about twice the size of Washington with almost three times the population.

But after the election in January of a parliament dominated by Hamas, the radical Islamic movement that refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist, international donors led by the United States cut off aid to the Palestinian Authority. Israel stopped transferring the tax revenue it collects for the Palestinians, and the Palestinian Authority's monthly income dropped from $150 million to $20 million or less, according to the United Nations.

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I guess that whole trying to survive thing the Israelis do is in pretty bad taste. The most horrific atrocities by the Palestinians over the past few decades, directed against Israel and Jews in general, are, of course, excusable.

No, nor is your response a matter of "bad taste", even if evidencing thoughtlessness, a lack of desire to get educated, and an over-riding inability to be other than simple.

You'll note (actually I suppose you probably won't notice) that the predominance of sources I've noted above are either from Israeli sources or from folks within the Jewish culture. None of them make the (frankly, idiotic) argument you suggest even while criticizing Israeli government policies.