ISRAEL - IRAN - SYRIA - HAMAS - HEZBOLLAH - WWWIII?

Does anybody seriously believe the Clinton administration couldn't find any number of 'expert' witnesses to testify that they didn't cause the tragedy at the Branch Davidian? Are you seriously suggesting there is no possibility that using tanks to ram holes in the building had something to do with that?

The fact is, those experts with no dog in the fight say there is no way to know for sure how the fire started. The testimony of those who were in the building has been rock solid that none of them set it.

The issue itself has no bearing whatsoever on the current situation in the Middle East other than to illustrate how govenrment can be more than willing to offer facts that can be quite different from what actually happened.

Davidians in excerpts discuss setting fire around sect compound (Dallas Morning News 7/11/00) Branch Davidians, overheard on FBI eavesdropping devices, made jokes about federal agents dying at the start of a 1993 standoff and also laughingly discussed their belief that God would take them "like flames of fire."

Davidians gave orders to 'spread the fuel,' tapes show (Post-Dispatch 7/10/00) Branch Davidians joked about the possibility of becoming a "charcoal briquette" the day before the fatal fire the ended in the death of about 80 people. Then, the day of the fire, Davidians gave orders to "spread the fuel," "pour it," "pass the torch" and "light it."

Ex-prosecutor guilty in Davidian case (Dallas Morning News 2/07/01) Former federal prosecutor Bill Johnston pleaded guilty to a felony Tuesday in St. Louis, admitting to withholding information about the use of pyrotechnic tear-gas canisters in the Branch Davidian siege from the Waco special counsel

Hizbollah foresaw "limited damage"

Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:59 PM BST

BEIRUT (Reuters) - The magnitude of the Israeli response to Hizbollah's cross-border operation in July took the Lebanese guerrilla group by surprise, Hizbollah deputy leader Naim Qassem said in an interview published on Saturday.

Qassem told an-Nahar daily that Hizbollah had expected an Israel attack at some stage as part of a joint plan with the United States but it had no indication it would come in July.

"We were expecting the Israelis would respond at the most by bombing for a day or two or some limited attacks or targeting certain places, such that it would not go beyond three days and some limited damage," he said.

After Hizbollah fighters seized two Israeli soldiers on July 12, Israel started bombing Lebanon's civilian infrastructure in a one-month war which displaced more than 900,000 people.

Israeli attacks killed close to 1,200 people in Lebanon, mostly civilians, and did damage worth billions of dollars. Israel lost 157 people, mostly soldiers inside Lebanon.

Qassem said: "Frankly we were surprised by the great size (of the Israeli response) and by this serious attack."

Two days after the war began, Hizbollah learnt that Israel and the United States had been planning an attack in September or October. U.S. media have also said the United States was enthusiastic about Israeli plans to strike at Hizbollah.

"Israel was not ready. In fact it wanted to prepare for two or three months more, but American pressure on one side and the Israeli desire to achieve a success on the other ... were factors which made them rush into battle," Qassem said.

The Israeli army said it would not comment on the state of its planning at the start, saying this was a "political matter".

Leading up to the war, the Israeli government showed little public interest in Hizbollah, focussing on isolating Hamas after the Islamist group won Palestinian elections and on a now-shelved plan to reshape the occupied West Bank.

Soldiers returning from the front say training in recent years focussed too much on dealing with action in Palestinian streets, not on fighting a more formidable force like Hizbollah.

The Hizbollah official said the guerrilla group would co-ordinate with the Lebanese army as it moves into parts of south Lebanon dominated by Hizbollah.

But Hizbollah will not give up the concept of resistance against Israel, on the grounds that Israel continues to occupy the Shebaa farms region, holds Lebanese prisoners and overflies Lebanese territory almost every day.

"The justifications for ending it (resistance) are not yet there. When we agree on a defence plan to confront Israel, defining the job of the resistance, the army and the Lebanese people, then we will see what the rules and roles are," he said.

The Shebaa Farms is a small patch of land claimed by Lebanon, but occupied by Israel since it captured the Golan Heights from Syria in the 1967 war. The United Nations deems the territory Syrian until such time as Syria cedes it to Lebanon.

From the same link

Quote:

Ex-prosecutor guilty in Davidian case (Dallas Morning News 2/07/01) Former federal prosecutor Bill Johnston pleaded guilty to a felony Tuesday in St. Louis, admitting to withholding information about the use of pyrotechnic tear-gas canisters in the Branch Davidian siege from the Waco special counsel

Its moot now. The children are dead and the government claims no responsibility and the Davidians claim no responsibility.

Now we have a situation in the Middle East where some are trying to defend Hezbollah's actions in order to accuse Israel and some are defending Israel's actions as justifiable.

So which has the more crediiblity in the Waco case? The government? Or the Davidians? Its a toss up there.

Who has the more credibility in the Israel vs Hezbollah case? I'll put my money on Israel any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

According to the Jerusalem Post, the Israelian Foreign Affairs speaker Mark Regev announced Saturday that Israel would consider authorizing selected Muslim countries to take part in the international peacekeeping force in south Lebanon.

You never give an inch do you foxfrye? I said that the Clinton made mistakes and even possible wrong doings. I think one of those mistakes was using tear gas. However, it is clear that the fire was set from the Davidians as the tapes proved.

I am on neither the side of Hezbollah or Israel but the side of those caught in the middle of this fight.

Do you think any Muslim states would actually do this and be seen as Israeli sympathizers? I wonder what selective states Israel thinks are suitable?

revel wrote:

Do you think any Muslim states would actually do this and be seen as Israeli sympathizers? I wonder what selective states Israel thinks are suitable?

There are/have been a couple of Muslim countries already on the list.

JERUSALEM - Israel said Saturday it was encouraging some Muslim countries to send peacekeepers to southern Lebanon, a contribution that would lend credibility to the heavily European force.

EU nations pledged 6,900 troops Friday, dispelling concerns that the peacekeeping force might not materialize because of reluctance to send troops without clear instructions or authorization to use their weapons.

But the force was still far short of the 15,000 troops envisioned under a resolution that stopped a month of fighting between Israel and the Islamic Hezbollah guerrillas.

The EU and U.N. agree the peacekeeping mission must have a strong Muslim component to give it credibility. Israel, however, objects to nations that do not recognize the Jewish state, saying such troops would make it impossible for Jerusalem to share intelligence with the U.N. force. That would exclude Indonesia, Bangladesh and Malaysia, which have offered troops.

But Israel said it has been in touch with other Muslim countries to encourage them to participate, particularly Turkey, which has diplomatic relations with Israel.

"If Turkey decides to send a contingent, we would welcome that," said Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev.

Jordan and Egypt also are among Muslim countries that have diplomatic relations with Israel.

The international force is to reinforce the Lebanese army, which is moving 15,000 soldiers of its own into the south. They are the first assertion of central authority in the region along the Israeli border in decades.

But 13 days after Israel and Hezbollah agreed to a ceasefire, questions remained about how to enforce the vague truce and prevent the area from exploding again. It was unclear how the United Nations would meet Israel's demand to prevent Hezbollah from rearming.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan stressed Friday it was not the peacekeepers' task to strip the guerrillas of their weapons, saying that was an issue for Lebanon's government and "cannot be done by force."

"The troops are not going there to disarm Hezbollah. Let's be clear about that," he said.

Regev reiterated Israel would not lift its air and sea embargo of Lebanon until peacekeepers take positions along the Syrian border to block arms shipments to Hezbollah from its two main supporters, Iran and Syria.

But Annan said peacekeepers would deploy on the Syrian border only at Lebanon's request, which Beirut has yet to make. Such a move would aggravate tensions with Syria, which views the deployment of international troops along the border as a hostile act.

"The resolution does not require the deployment of U.N. troops to the border," Annan said at a news conference after a three-hour meeting with the 25 EU ministers Friday.

Regev, however, argued that sending troops to Syrian border is key to enforcing an international arms embargo against Hezbollah imposed under the cease-fire resolution.

"The cease-fire calls for an international arms embargo against Hezbollah," Regev said. "So Israel will be willing to allow for unfettered access in and out of Lebanon the minute those international and Lebanese forces are enforcing the arms embargo."

The issue is unlikely to prevent the Israeli government, which is under domestic pressure to pull out of Lebanon quickly, from withdrawing its soldiers. However, Israel could use airstrikes on border crossings, roads and bridges to prevent arms smuggling if Lebanese troops and the U.N. force did not stop shipments themselves.

The bulk of the new troops came from Italy and France. Other countries committed smaller units. Belgium volunteered 400 soldiers, including critical land-mine removal units. Germany and Denmark offered naval forces, and the Finnish foreign minister spoke of sending 250 soldiers, if his parliament approved.

About 150 French army engineers landed Friday at Naqoura in southern Lebanon, joining 250 of their countrymen already among 2,200 peacekeepers in the country, and Italy's leader reportedly said late Friday that his nation's troops could leave for Lebanon as early as Tuesday.

The promised 6,900 European soldiers did not include naval units, air support or peacekeepers already on the ground.

Annan said the cease-fire was holding with few infractions but urged the EU to move swiftly to get its soldiers to region. He said he hoped the expanded force could start deploying in "days, not weeks." He had earlier set a target date of Sept. 2.

"Europe is providing the backbone of the force," Annan said. "We can now begin to put together a credible force."

Finnish Foreign Minister Erkki Tuomioja, whose country holds the EU's rotating presidency, said the entire U.N. force should be in place within two to three months.

The United States has ruled out committing troops, but is expected to provide logistics support. As a rule, Washington does not participate in peacekeeping missions unless it is commanding the force.

France, which now commands the small UNIFIL force that has been in southern Lebanon since 1978, will lead the expanded force until February, when it will hand over command to Italy.

Israel, however, objects to nations that do not recognize the Jewish state, saying such troops would make it impossible for Jerusalem to share intelligence with the U.N. force. That would exclude Indonesia, Bangladesh and Malaysia, which have offered troops.

But Israel said it has been in touch with other Muslim countries to encourage them to participate, particularly Turkey, which has diplomatic relations with Israel.

Set, your reading ability is really atrocious. Israel was not directly responding to Egyptian attacks in 1956, when Israel was part of a force attacking the canal. But leading up to this attack, Egypt, which owned Gaza, effected many attacks on Israel.

George, Israel did NOT start the 1967 war. Egypt blockaded the Israel's port in the Gulf of Aqaba, which is an act of war.

The stunning 1967 victory was - in my view - Israel's moment of truth. They could have created a Palestinian state in most of the West Bank and begun a process of mutual economic development which might have changed the political trajectory of the region.

The objectives of the Economic Union of Palestine shall be:

A customs union;

A joint currency system providing for a single foreign exchange rate;

Operation in the common interest on a non-discriminatory basis of railways inter-State highways; postal, telephone and telegraphic services and ports and airports involved in international trade and commerce;

Joint economic development, especially in respect of irrigation, land reclamation and soil conservation;

Access for both States and for the City of Jerusalem on a non-discriminatory basis to water and power facilities.

David Cameron has distanced himself from one of Margaret Thatcher's key foreign policies, saying that she was wrong to have called the ANC "terrorists" during the apartheid era.

The Conservative leader, who met Nelson Mandela in Johannesburg last week, said his party had made "mistakes" in the past by failing to introduce sanctions against apartheid in South Africa.

A miserable milestone was passed the other day. America's (and Britain's) disastrous war in Iraq has now lasted longer than the US involvement in the Second World War. Yes, this conflict has outlasted a war that ended with total victory over Nazi Germany. Hitler declared war on the US on 11 December 1941. Exactly 1,244 days later, on 7 May 1945, Germany surrendered. The US invaded Iraq on 19 March 2003, and this weekend it is 1,267 days later, with no end in sight.

Sticklers among you will have noted that the interval between the attack on Pearl Harbor and the Japanese surrender on 2 September, 1945 was 1,364 days. But even that record will tumble at the start of December.