$318 Billion Deal Is Set in Congress for Cutting Taxes

Scrat
Is this the reflection of a recovering economy? Here are just some of the negatives.
<Personal bankruptcies up by 25%>
<Unemployment at 6.1%, and that does not include the millions of people who have given up and are no longer on the job market>
<Layoff continue unabated thousands each week>
< Needed foreign investments are drying up. Returns insufficient to justify>
< Industry of all stripes continues to flow out of the US at a breathtaking pace.>
< This years college graduates face a hostile job market with many unable to find employment>
<The threat of deflation is staring us in the face>
The Bush administration recognizing that employment is the key to a recovering economy. Instituted a series of tax cuts in mistaken belief that the addition money in circulation would spur a business expansion. All it did was drain the treasury get the nation deeper in debt and enrich the already rich.
The Federal reserve on the other hand proceeded to instituded a serious of rate cuts with the latest to be from 1/4 to 1/2 %. That to has not managed to stem the tide. i wonder what the will do when it gets to zero.
As for the housing market that is a bubble that is yet to burst. The only thing that sustains it are the mortgage rates that at last reading fell to 4.9% for a 30 year fixed rate. I believe that to be the lowest rate in about 50 years.
Regarding the stock market who knows what is driving it? I suppose the same thing that makes bookies rich. Wishful thinking and greed.

Does this appear to be a recovering economy?
One last note regarding statistics. There is a saying. Numbers do not lie accountants do. I used statistics from time to time on the job and I can assure you that is a true statements. With a little manipulation and creative thinking statistics can be made to reflect whatever you want them to. Statistics however, never put one person to work or paid the bills. I have little confidence in statistics especially those government issued.

au, I agree with your observations. Nobody seems to remember what has happened in Japan during the past decade. We are beginning to see the signs of high unemployment and a boon in the housing market to mirror what has happened in Japan. It will not be long before the balloon can no longer hold the empty air that gets bigger by the day. c.i.

au - Cite me any timeframe in history and--assuming stats exist for that period--one could cite a list of positive economic indicators and one of negative economic indicators.

No, your list--by itself--does not "appear to be a recovering economy", neither does it accurately represent what is happening today.

There is no question in my mind that the recovery is already well under way. You disagree. I understand. 6-12 months from now when economists are pointing backwards and attempting to pinpoint the exact point where things turned around, we can argue about it. In the end these things can only be fully seen in the rear view mirror. So I'll have my opinion on it and you have yours. Perhaps we can both agree to hope that I am right?

Scrat
Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong. However, based on all indications I am not. The actions of the Fed. Reserve would seem to side with my assessment. However, time will tell. And a change in administration will help.<zinger>

au, Don't put too much weight on what the Fed Reserve does; they are guessing like everybody else on how a rate cut will affect our economy. IMHO, they should wait for a rate cut, because the tax cuts do not apply until July 1, and they need to see if they will stimulate the economy enough to stabalize it. c.i.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CNBCTV/Articles/Dispatches/P50839.asp

C.I
I put no weight on the actions of the Federal Reserve. They are as much in the dark as the rest of us. Greenspan got lucky in the 90's. His and the nations luck seems to have run out when the air was fouled with the stink of Bush.

You'll not hear any arguments from me on that point! This is a brand new kind of conservatism; spend billions we don't have and give tax breaks. It's a new kind of economics. c.i.

The Fed is really a political tool (and has been for quite a while).

Does anyone here really persist in thinking that Bush is a conservative? a CONSERVATIVE??!!

au - Once again I am forced to ask you to acknowledge that thing we like to call REALITY.

How exactly did "the stink of Bush" cause the economy to go into a dive while CLINTON was president? Hmmmm????

Facts are a bitch, aren't they?

It's been my HO that any president doesn't have all that much influence on our economy, simply because government does not create jobs. When Bush makes that statement that he's going to "create jobs," he simply doesn't know what he's talking about. The way he can create jobs is to open up a commercial business, hire workers, and keep them working in a profitable enterprise. Giving back taxpayer money doesn't create jobs. People who spend their income create jobs. c.i.

Scrat
Did Bush cause the downturn ? No
Did Bush do anything constructive to try to stop the bleeding. NO! No!
OH! I forgot tax cuts for the wealthy.

I think the downturn was a natural part of the business cycle, exacerbated by our having indulged ourselves in a lovely bubble. Then came Enron. Had there been a real stink about Enron, about corporate malfeasance in general, pictures of prosecutors going to war, serious belief on the part of the public and investor that the SEC and the gov would really, really do something about the loopholes, I betcha the recession would have gone bye-bye long since. So though the downturn wasn't Bush's fault, I believe very strongly that the persistent recession is largely his fault.

Scrat if some one should get seriously injured and was bleeding perfusely would you try to stop the bleeding or let the individual bleed out?
That is what happened to the economy. Bush in his ignorance let it bleed out.

So, we are blaming the paramedic for the death instead of the mugger?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy crept ahead at a softer pace than previously thought in the opening three months of the year, weighed down by war worries that dampened business investment and restrained stock-building, a Commerce Department (news - web sites) report on Thursday said.
Gross domestic product, the broadest measure of economic output within U.S. borders, grew at a revised 1.4 percent annual rate in the first quarter, matching the lethargic rate in the final quarter of 2002. That was a downward revision from 1.9 percent that Commerce estimated a month ago and well below Wall Street economists' forecasts for a 1.8 percent rate of first-quarter growth.

"So, we are blaming the paramedic for the death instead of the mugger?"

Okay, let's blame the mugger. The economy was undermined by large-scale muggers in the tech, investment, and business service industries. They are responsible for pervasive illegalities which came to light during an administration which by habit and ideology avoids regulation and prosecution of bad behavior in the business community. Even more proof that Bush isn't a real president. Don't count on him to rush forward with paramedic's skill and power to help the country...

Very Richest's Share of Income Grew Even Bigger, Data Show

By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON

The 400 wealthiest taxpayers accounted for more than 1 percent of all the income in the United States in the year 2000, more than double their share just eight years earlier, according to new data from the Internal Revenue Service. But their tax burden plummeted over the period.

Major recipients of the Bush tax cuts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/26/business/26TAX.html?th

avoiding your obvious hatred of the curent administration, look at what you wrote. The companies in question operated for a long period time illegally "cooking the books" and causing the artificial bubble in the stock market. Once the current administration came in the damage was done. You want so badly to lay the blame on Bush, but you can't and that upsets you.

the current administration is doing everything it can ti stimulate the economy. The lowering of taxes, the lowering of the federal reserve interest rates...these are things done to try to heal the wound, but you are blinded by hatred and can't see it. Take a step back and look at the big picture.

McGentrix
The mugger may have caused the injury but the inattention of the paramedic caused the death.
Can you dispute that? The death certificate should read "Death by Benign Neglect."