0
   

Hoping For Some Input....

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jul, 2006 08:29 pm
Nods to Endymion.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jul, 2006 08:31 pm
Endymon,

Well, for your enlightment, I wasn't the one that wrote that question about freedom. But that's beside the point anyway. That question was written by a lady that is one of the biggest supporters of the troops that I know. She worked for hours and hours without sleep this week so we could accomplish our goals. She didn't complain for one second about anything! She worked to do something good! What about you?

I was asking for input on it. But, hey, I'll be happy to tell the American Citizen that stands behind our troops 100% that you think them hypocritical and sickening (oh wait, you mean their feelings are hypocritical and sickening, right?). It's also very clear you feel that woman has no integrity at all. Well, you don't even know her! What does your statements say about your integrity? And you know what she will tell me? She will tell me, "Well, that is their right," because she understands that the rights we have are for everyone. She also understands that some like to take that right and twist it to justify lambasting others for exercising their rights.

What I find sickening is just because you have different views on the war and you seem to have decided only your views are the correct views so you slam someone else (their views)? That's sickening to me.

And let me tell you something Endymon, those brave men and women volunteered to do what they are doing. They made a decision to be in the military. It's not an easy decision when they know at any time they could have been called to war but they did it. What about you? Are you in the military? Are you a vet? If you are, then fine, you spout whatever you want. But if you aren't then kindly do our soldiers some respect and shut up! They fight to keep our country together and this kind of stuff you are spouting tears our country apart! And ticked? Oh, you bet I am! I'm ticked whenever anyone is part of the problem. What do you do to change things?

It all boils down to freedom of speech, yes. But good grief, when did some of you stop being a human being and caring about anyone's feelings? And you bet I harp on it! I harp on it because someone needs to stand up and tell those of you that think it's ok to demean and belittle others just because they don't live up to your personal standards and views that you are wrong! And personally (and I don't mean this for everyone that doesn't believe) those of you that act like that, you can keep your non-belief! My belief does not justify me calling people names or belitting or demeaning them in any way because I am not better than anyone else.

And yes, if you don't like our country and you aren't willing to do something positive to make the changes it may need, I'll gladly buy you a ticket to whatever country you want! Let's see if you can pick one out that lets you say whatever you want to whomever you want!
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jul, 2006 08:32 pm
endymion
A tip o the hat to yez.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jul, 2006 09:08 pm
ENDYMION wrote:
snood wrote:
I just saw a car wreck that'd really have you guffawing....


Believe me, we don't share the same sense of humour.

You wouldn't understand this, snood - but I was laughing at myself.
I won't bother trying to explain.

--------------------------------------------------

Momma Angel wrote:

What Does Freedom Mean To You

Many fine men and women have been stationed overseas, ready to fight for this nation and sacrifice all for you and me. The troops are ready to rise when called upon to any operation , most with very little rest. Here at home ,we walk freely, enjoying the best life has to offer. So support our troops and give them your heartfelt thanks. Let them know that you are grateful for protecting your freedom, your safety and all that America stands for. What does freedom mean to you?


I find this hypocritical and sickening.
Worst of all, it is a false reality and anyone with any integrity at all knows that.

But for those who have already forgotten


Wilfred Owen

Dulce Et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,-
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.


***********************************

You talk of freedom? Give the troops their Freedom - to live their lives unscarred.

We shouldn't have gone to Iraq and we shouldn't be there now. It was a mistake and our leaders should be man enough to admit it.
That our troops must continue to die to save face in the Whitehouse and Downing street is as big a war crime as that inflicted on Iraq - because those men trusted our leaders with their lives and with their reputations and our leaders fuc ked up and now many are dead or mutilated or traumatised in a crusade that should never have been. Why?

Because some still peddle the old lie.
I won't contribute to it.


Well, you certainly make the self-righteous noises, don't you? All momma angel has ever tried to do as related to the troops who "have to keep dying" is to send them care packages, and send them moral support, and send them her love, as best she knows how. What have you done for them besides carp about the bloody war?

Yes they have to be there, because of life choices that won't allow them to take back a vow, because of a stupid frikkin president with a crooked frikkin agenda. But who the hell are you making out as the enemy here?

It's a pretty bit of prose, Endymion. And I'm sure that your rage and angst is heartfelt. I just don't see the point in slamming someone like they stole something, for no reason. If M.A. was running around here touting George Bush and his policies that's one thing, but all she said was 'can you offer anything to put in a frikkin newsletter about what you think freedom is' fer crissakes.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 03:34 am
I'm with MA and Snood.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 04:38 am
What of the liberation of millions of people is that of no consequence?

Our troops have done a fine job.

They have nearly accomplished what they were sent to do and the deserve hero's welcomes each and every one of them.

You on the left seem to forget it was our US congress that gave the president the authority to send the troops. It was the American polls that gave the congress the authority to give the president the authority. Though the war has waxed and waned in popularity the MAJORITY of Americans want our troops to finish the mission. The left cannot get ANY support to have our military pull out so alright already! Get the point we want to succeed ok? We want to see the Iraqi people free and happy. This next election I will be voting pure partisan republicans because the left has only obstructed what America has sacrificed our young men and women to accomplish abroad. A democracy in the middle east. It is no longer WMD (even though they have been found) it is liberty and freedom for MILLIONS of people... Isn't that a worthy enough cause? Any one who answers no is disingenuous and needs to be shot at a few times by a terrorist screaming death to the infidels, then they will start to sing a different tune..

So you liberation haters are part of the scourges of our society. You object to us removing Saddam Hussein. You worry about 2000+ dead American soldiers when more people die a year in traffic accidents in the US. This is not really a war the only war we are fighting are with the Ideologies of the left.

We removed Saddam because he in cold blood murdered 100's of thousands of Iraqi people. Shall I say that Again? We removed Saddam because he in cold blood murdered 100's of thousands of Iraqi people. He gassed the kurds with mustard gas and genetically deformed the people for many years to come. These people have children born deformed with teeth growing up the sides of their faces due to the WMD that Saddam used on them...
And we are supposed to pity and give audience to the poor left who object to the liberation of these people? Over my dead body!

The US troops have 100% of my support the president has 100% of my support the congress has 100% of my support and the majority of American I proudly stand with on this war against radical ideologies and partisan hatred.

We are not doing anything different in this war on terror than we would have done to our own radical right her in this country...
Remember the branch Davidians?

They were "christian" terrorists... and look what happened to them?

That was a liberal president that took them out too...

Now, consider if that compound had NOT been burnt to the ground with them all in it, their militias would probably "rule" half of Texas now...

This is not a war on Islam it is a war on radical right ideologies of hate.

It is only ironic that a religious president is waging war on a hijacked religion. This just shows the character of the man, and our national policies on run away religion.

This should serve as a warning to ANY religion that decides to militarize their base.

Religion should never coerce their members at the point of a gun. Religious preference should be a free will choice. I would think the left would understand this but how can they when they are standing like rats waiting for the next special interest pellet to drop from the left wing feeder? The irony of the left is they are their own worst enemy. They don't understand that if freedom falls THEY will be the first to go...

When Saddam seized power in Iraq the first thing he did was take out all the "liberal" outspoken free thinkers and line them up outside the general assembly and shot them one by one...

How can a totalitarian dictator rule when people are thinking on their own?
Saddam funded little children suicide bombers in Israel. Wasn't that a nice use of the iraqi FOOD for oil money.

The far left in this country are actually sickeningly self defeatists. If it wasn't for the right and the military (God Bless Them EVERY ONE!) the left would have perished long ago... It is the values of the right that permit the left to exist. Values like liberty and freedom which take commitment and sacrifice to hold on to. Yet all the left can think to do is to run down the right and in essence they are only hurting themselves. I am not saying the right should go unchecked but the left is so detached from reality that they cannot even tend to their own good.

Next election I will be voting on pure partisan republican lines... The left does not impress me one bit they are detached from the issues at hand and they cannot be trusted to do the right thing. The John Kerrys voting against body armor and the list is a mile long from there on.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 04:49 am
Well Rex and I differ about the war. I think it was a mistake. I don't think we should be there.

If called, I will go, because it's part of the life deal I made with uncle Sam.

I just don't see the need for all the bile against momma angel.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 05:07 am
snood wrote:
Well Rex and I differ about the war. I think it was a mistake. I don't think we should be there.

If called, I will go, because it's part of the life deal I made with uncle Sam.

I just don't see the need for all the bile against momma angel.


Well Snood I will pray that you are not needed and you do not have to participate in this war that you do not fully support.

I respect your dissent I myself would love to be a pacifist but I am so against radical religions. If I had been on one of the hijacked planes I will tell you now there would at least have been one badly hurt terrorist on that plane. I am not afraid of a box cutter.

I just hope and pray the the middle east will someday know the joys of a free society. Of schools that reach tolerance and people of different faiths living harmoniously.

Our country is the most diverse country in the world yet we are the most united...

No dictator should be permitted to enslave their own people.

We now have Libya as a friend, Afghanistan as a friend and Iraq. How can this really be a mistake?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 05:17 am
If we hadn't gone to war in Iraq we wouldn't have cleaned house on the UN... they would still be accepting bribes from Saddam.

And where would we be then? Both Iran and Libya would be nuclear by now. And Saddam's bribes would have him by now well on the way to nuclear weapons and any other WMD he could stockpile and AK Kahn would still be spreading nuclear secrets to any country or terrorist organization with the bucks to buy them (Afghanistan). The UN would have behind our backs armed the radical world sects with WMD. Would you like to have been called into war then Snood?

Nip it in the bud... Our President, Rumsfeld and congress have done the right thing... I support them.

Better to have a smaller war early and liberate the people then armageddon later.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 05:19 am
Rex and Snood,

Snood already knows this Rex, but I don't get involved in the actual politics of the war. I have my reasons and will just let it go at that.

I really have to commend Snood. Even though he does not agree with what is going on he would still do what he said he would do. That is the character of a true man, a soldier, and a human being. And he knows that if he is called he better give me his address so I can make sure he has support all the way through his tour of duty. Laughing

Snood and I have our differences but the one thing I do admire about him the most is he doesn't choose sides. He sticks up for what is right. If he thinks I'm outta line he lets me know and I'm glad he does.

Snood, you know my prayers are with you and always will be.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 05:38 am
The best thing Rumsfled ever did was letting Tommy Franks lead the troops into Baghdad.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 05:44 am
Look Rex, you don't have to keep selling it here. What's the point? You think the Iraq war is a positive, necessary thing overall - I don't.

Neither of those things was being discussed here. You made your point.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 05:47 am
This is a post about freedom isn't it?

Well we can thanks the troops for spreading freedom that otherwise would be enslavement now. Can we underestimate the great sacrifice, these people have dedicated their lives to freeing others. This is the most unselfish thing that one human being can do for another.

John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 05:48 am
So Snood you are against the emancipation of others, fine...
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 05:49 am
Snood, we have 2 diametrically opposed worldviews here and MA merely tries to add some additional "credibility" to her side by becoming violently ill at those of us who dont feel that support of this "adventure" in Iraq is a prerequisite for citizenship. She uses all the cliches that the GOP tries to "tag" onto those "Not of the body"
Quote:
That question was written by a lady that is one of the biggest supporters of the troops that I know. She worked for hours and hours without sleep this week so we could accomplish our goals
Nothing like starting off with a firm pat on your own back or the backs of those you personally know. Its an "Unsolicited testimonial to MA's virtue"
Quote:
hey, I'll be happy to tell the American Citizen that stands behind our troops 100% that you think them hypocritical and sickening (oh you mean their feelings are hypocritical and sickening, right?).
Endymions post was a reminer of the suffering of troops in WWI, the reminders that artists and poets use to ply their crafts. Nowhere did EWndymion engage in the vituperation that MA has as her trademark snipe at those who disagree with her. In fact Endymion wants to return our troops to their pre-war lives so they dont have to continue in harms way as the agents of Bushs failed policies. (I sometimes wish that the Dems were as good as the GOP at coining "over the top" bumper stickers, but then I realize that such phrases are merely an effort to underpin an administration gone terribly wrong.
Quote:
She also understands that some like to take that right and twist it to justify lambasting others for exercising their rights.


What a laugh. The armchair warhawks(I differentiate snood-he is honoring a contractual agreement but still exercising his rights as a citizen). But the MA's have PHDs in "wringing phrases and twisting meanings into the actions o those of us not -of -the-body" phrases like "cut and run" are overworkedexamples of the fine art of political phrasemaking by a failed leadership.
Quote:
What I find sickening is just because you have different views on the war and you seem to have decided only your views are the correct views so you slam someone else (their views)? That's sickening to me.
Ive looked for Endymions "Slam" at MA . Whereas MA has exercized her slam muscles in hersignture indigo type This is a crafted Ruh Limbaugh style wherein the Rush goes off on how the "dirty scum liberals are attempying to smear his love for Bush by using cheap underhanded tricks of namecalling , which also makes Rush sick to his stomach.
Quote:
Are you in the military? Are you a vet? If you are, then fine, you spout whatever you want. But if you aren't then kindly do our soldiers some respect and shut up!


thats not the American way. Many of us feel that the best way to honor our troops is to keep more of them from dying in a war that almost everyone with a brain recognizes was a sham, a lie, and a cheap attempt to keep a failure president 's post 9/11 good will at a high level. Its a fact that the presumptive intelligence was "cooked". SO according o MA, the best way we can honor our kids is to keep em dying for our leadership (who are also untrained in the arts of war)
Quote:
It all boils down to freedom of speech, yes. But good grief, when did some of you stop being a human being and caring about anyone's feelings? And you bet I harp on it! I harp on it because someone needs to stand up and tell those of you that think it's ok to demean and belittle others just because they don't live up to your personal standards and views that you are wrong!


This is just an idiotic example of the pre-emptive"shot" techniques that MA loves to use as a tangential attempt to discredit Endymions post in which we are reminded that MA's"reality" has been proven false by Congress and recent polls .
Quote:
My belief does not justify me calling people names or belitting or demeaning them in any way because I am not better than anyone else.

I dont believe in calling names like Endymion" What a joke MA. If your gonna sound like Foghorn Leghorn, do a better job
Quote:
And yes, if you don't like our country and you aren't willing to do something positive to make the changes it may need, I'll gladly buy you a ticket to whatever country you want!


I just had to add this one, not seen in heavuy use since the days of that great American, Spiro Agnew.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 05:56 am
Many of us vets hate the war and what Bush stands for. We consider it patriotism of the highest order to seek to right the ship of state before the fool sinks it. If anybody deserves all the name calling it is Bush.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 06:11 am
Farmerman,

I stopped reading that post after about the first sentence or two. Good grief! What is wrong with you? It wasn't my back I was patting it was someone else's back that deserved it!

This whole thread was just to get input on what freedom means to people. You, yourself, knew that what you posted was not the kind of thing I was looking for. That was fine. You have every right to what you think about the president, our country, God, or whomever.

But, unfortunately, the plain and simple fact is this, there are SOME (caps for emphasis) on this board and particularly in this thread, that just can't seem to let anyone say anything good about anything without putting their nasty fingerprint all over it.

And I am going to thank a particular soldier for giving me the right to tell you just what I think about your attitude! It sucks!!!!

I used to respect you, not that it matters to you because I doubt that it does, but I have lost a great deal of respect for you.

Sure, anyone that doesn't agree with me???? What a laugh!!!! You don't have to agree with me on anything. I couldn't care less. I just ask people be civil about doing it. But nope! Heaven forbid anyone gives a flying flip about how other people might feel.

So, sit behind your computer and lash out with your words and whatever. Big brave men!

Momma "Rush" Angel
[/color]
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 06:13 am
The hard truth of LIFE is,

THOUGH...
Sometimes KILLING is the human thing to do.

Sometimes ideologies of hate become so violent and full of rage that they reach their fruition in some calculated attack against us. This is where our soldiers are on the front line receiving the brunt of this attack. It is a reality of our times. As long as this hate exists toward us we need to root it out find it and leave freedom and peace in it's place. This process of keeping the peace and allowing infrastructure and education of religious tolerance to flourish is the only way to ensure the future of the free world. This is not to say that the free world does not have it's own issues. But it is FREE and the discourse of the future within the free world is open for debate.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 06:14 am
edgarblythe wrote:
Many of us vets hate the war and what Bush stands for. We consider it patriotism of the highest order to seek to right the ship of state before the fool sinks it. If anybody deserves all the name calling it is Bush.


Many Al Qaeda love war...
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2006 06:22 am
MA, I would expect nothing more from you. PS, Rush was never a former military either. HEs just another right wing apologist blowhard .

As far as Rex's opinions, Im not even gonna go there.
0 Replies
 
 

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