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Do you think there is pure friendship between men and women?

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 04:57 pm
sozobe wrote:
Frank, sometimes you're a hip happenin' guy and sometimes you really show your age... ;-)



I've had lots of very good, very close, non-sexual relationships with men.



Grrrrrr.....I don't think he's all that much older than I.
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Shazzer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 05:47 pm
I'm guessing I might be younger than both Frank and dlowan, and I lean more towards their thinking.

I was once having a conversation with a male friend at uni about this very topic. And we came to the conclusion that you can be friends, but usually one or both sides wants more. There was a pause, then we both jumped in and said: 'So, it's all right. I know you want me.' Such a funny memory. Especially since I had a crush on him at the time.

My experience has been that I can be friends with a guy so long as we sort the sexual stuff out. I don't mean I have sex with all my male friends. Wouldn't that be grand? I just mean that if I know I only want friendship, or he has a girl or something, then I deal with it. And trust that if we're really going to be friends, then we can get past it. Attraction is a funny thing; it comes and goes. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Cause what is attraction but one soul bowing to another? The key is to understand that it shouldn't be the prime motivation for a friendship. It's when we lie to ourselves about that, that we get into trouble.

Quote:
I've had lots of very good, very close, non-sexual relationships with men.


My experience has been different. There's always been some initial sexual chemistry. Makes sense in a way, though. Why be friends with someone you don't have chemistry with? I have to admit that when I read your post, it immediately brought me back to:

Quote:
Harry Burns: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally Albright: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry Burns: No you don't.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: No you don't.
Sally Albright: Yes I do.
Harry Burns: You only think you do.
Sally Albright: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry Burns: No, what I'm saying is they all WANT to have sex with you.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: They do not.
Harry Burns: Do too.
Sally Albright: How do you know?
Harry Burns: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.


What a funny movie.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 05:53 pm
I do not think like Frank on this one!
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Shazzer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 06:00 pm
Ok, sorry. I must have misread. I thought you both felt that it was more likely for men and women to have sexual tension than not. Obviously to different degrees. My bad.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 06:39 pm
sozobe wrote:
Frank, sometimes you're a hip happenin' guy and sometimes you really show your age... ;-)



I've had lots of very good, very close, non-sexual relationships with men.


Sorry to break this news to ya, Soz...

...and I will apologize out front for speaking rather plainly...

..but men think with their dicks.

We all do.

We wanna be good...and friendly...and friends...and close...and all that stuff...

...but if our thing gets stiff...

...ain't nothin' that is gonna be good and friendly and close that doesn't involve some bone jumping...

...or a price is paid if the bone jumping is thwarted.

That is damn near a 100% thing.

(I will concede the occasion fluke...but my guess is the guy is probably closet gay.)

It's just one of those ugly truths.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 06:54 pm
Crap.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 06:57 pm
Was I too subtle?
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 07:03 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Frank, sometimes you're a hip happenin' guy and sometimes you really show your age... ;-)



I've had lots of very good, very close, non-sexual relationships with men.


Sorry to break this news to ya, Soz...

...and I will apologize out front for speaking rather plainly...

..but men think with their dicks.

We all do. .....

It's just one of those ugly truths.


Could you amend that to "men think partially with their dicks", Frank?
It is horribly depressing that you seem to believe that it's all dick & (apparently) no brain or heart!
A compromise position would be very heartening! :wink:
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 07:15 pm
I always find this view...

a. That men are more likely to get sexual feelings

and

b. That they are unable to deal with them in any way that makes sense

very odd.


It is so all or nothing, for one thing.

I do think it comes down to how we are as individuals, this discussion...since many of us seem able to maintain long and close friendships with the other sex, and another group of us do not seem to have experienced it.


Sure, sex sometimes appears, and, while I can only speak for myself....I have been INTENSELY attracted to two of my closest male friends, for a long time, in circumstances where there was no good way of doing anything about it.....and GOT OVER IT!

Human beings, even men, can actually manage intense love/sexual feelings and not die of it, get mean, or say sayonara to the friendship!!!


I can imagine that, if it was too serious, one might have to disappear, at least for a while....but lots of sexual attractions arise and fade quite quickly.



I have male friends who were very attracted to me for a while...and THEY got over it...

They are still friends.


Some for over twenty years...a couple for 30 years.


If it was gonna affect the friendship, I suspect it might have by now.

Sexual feelings are feelings...strong ones for sure....but they are not the end of thinking.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 07:19 pm
I don't think that all people Frank's age thinks as he does -- just that I think that for a guy who prides himself on being iconoclastic, that's pitifully old-fashioned fuddy-duddy thinking.

Just for starters, women have sex drives too, ya know.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 07:59 pm
Yes, most friendships between men and women will involve some degree of sexual tension / attraction at some time, coming and going.

No, that doesnt mean they'll end up having sex. Or cutting / reducing the friendship.

Almost all of my really good friends have been women. Sure there's been some element of attraction, smaller or larger, in most of them, at least some of the time. No, most of 'em I havent had sex / made out with. Yes, they've been or are still very personal, valuable friendships that mean a lot to me.

With men, I find it's harder to talk about anything too personal, unless in a joky / relativating way. Its also harder to show yourself vulnerable, or find comfort in a hug or so.

So what is pure? Friendships with women might be streaked through with attraction, for better or worse. Friendships with fellow men might be streaked through with competition. There's something with everything.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 08:03 pm
Nothing is pure.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 08:03 pm
Maybe the share house experience helps people learn to think differently?

You just get used to living with the other sex and dealing with all sorts of feelings and situations...


Certainly helps to desexualise stuff!


I have lived with some "gods", whom all my friends thought stunning.


To me, they were Rick who was great fun, but left dirty fry pans around to go rancid and worried too much about what his parents thought, and Richard, who I had no end of fun with, but who never did his share of the housework and never let me see my friends on my own....and so on.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 08:59 pm
dlowan wrote:
Human beings, even men, can actually manage intense love/sexual feelings and not die of it, get mean, or say sayonara to the friendship!!!


I can imagine that, if it was too serious, one might have to disappear, at least for a while....but lots of sexual attractions arise and fade quite quickly.


Yes.

I think it's called self control, using your common sense in the situation .... those sorts of boring, restrictive things!:wink:
A sexual attraction doesn't have to override all other aspects of a good relationship which has a lot else going for it.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 09:49 pm
msolga wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Human beings, even men, can actually manage intense love/sexual feelings and not die of it, get mean, or say sayonara to the friendship!!!


I can imagine that, if it was too serious, one might have to disappear, at least for a while....but lots of sexual attractions arise and fade quite quickly.


Yes.

I think it's called self control, using your common sense in the situation .... those sorts of boring, restrictive things!:wink:
A sexual attraction doesn't have to override all other aspects of a good relationship which has a lot else going for it.


Lol! Reminds me of this strange fella I worked with...brought up as Seventh Day Adventist...got married very young...weird fella.


Anyhoo, he asked to speak to me one day because he was in the grip of lust for a tutor he had for a bit of study he was doing.


He fancied himself in love (had known her for six tutorials) and fancied her in love with him (for no discernible reason I was able to ascertain...ie there was nothing he described in interactions with her that said any such thing, to me and there had been no out of tutorial contact!)


"I don't know what to do!" he said "I don't want to lose my wife and family, but I can't lie to her."


I think it took about three hours to introduce him to the idea that:

a. He was likely in lust, not love.

b. All lust does not have to be consummated.
b. i All LOVE does not have to be consummated.
b. ii It is possible to have a feeling without acting on it. It will then likely go away.

c. If it is to be consummated, it helps if the other person is willing.

d. He had no evidence that the other person was thusly willing, except an overheated imagination running on inexperience and testosterone.

e. Even if the other person felt the same, b i,ii, and iii still applied.

f. IF She was willing and they decided to go for it, it was possible to have a fling that did not take over your whole life.

g. He was a (semi) adult and responsible being...he had CHOICES, lust did not mean he had none.


All new concepts to him.


As I recall, he stopped being in utter lust shortly after, and had a good time in the tute letting the tingles give energy to the interaction. (As they do, wonderfully, in my experience. Mmmmmmmm...)



Phew!
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 09:57 pm
Phew, indeed!

Reminds me of a handsome young fellow I knew on campus, many moons ago. He invited me to his room (Ah, progress, I thought! Very Happy ) ... & on our arrival he proceeded to read extracts from the bible to me. He was very passionate about it, let me tell you! Sadly, my passion vanished in an instant! Laughing
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 09:59 pm
as with everything, it works for some people, and doesn't for others.

shrug.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 10:00 pm
msolga wrote:
Phew, indeed!

Reminds me of a handsome young fellow I knew on campus, many moons ago. He invited me to his room (Ah, progress, I thought! Very Happy ) ... & on our arrival he proceeded to read extracts from the bible to me. He was very passionate about it, let me tell you! Sadly, my passion vanished in an instant! Laughing



Lol!


Sounds like a wondrous prophylactic device, that bible!
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 10:02 pm
dlowan wrote:
Sounds like a wondrous prophylactic device, that bible!


More like a big bucket of very cold water! Shocked
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jul, 2006 10:10 pm
dagmaraka wrote:
as with everything, it works for some people, and doesn't for others.

shrug.


The bible reading approach has worked for you, dag?
Somehow I doubt it ..... Cool
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