It's an evil father-in-law for a change!

It was easier for me to do it in the heat of the moment, than it will be for Billy to do it in a pre arranged meeting, I think.
If I had to plan such a conversation, I would have not relished it at all.
It will be tough for Billy if he decides to take this action, and he will probably duck out of it on several occasions, but in the end he will have to take a deep breath and do it, I feel.

My outburst caused my Mum to pick up her bag and leave. She didn't speak to me for about a month, and it must have upset her greatly, but in the end, she arrived on the doorstep one day and apologised.
I wouldn't say that they have ever been the best of friends since, but there have been good times, and my wife has never had to put up with any of the normal "in law" problems from that day.


As an incentive to Billy, just let him know that I earned so many brownie points that day, my knees almost gave way over the following couple of weeks.

We have jobs, but we're also full-time students, so financial aid is pretty hard to do without. Billy wants to graduate with his BS in two years, and that's only possible with a full load (he actually takes more than a full load most semesters), and with the difficulty of the classes he takes and the amount of work assigned to science majors, it would be damn hard for him to work enough to pay rent here, plus all the other living expenses. He basically would have to wait to go to school until he was old enough that his parents' income wouldn't affect his financial aid anymore, which would mean wasting a couple of years, or else have to take a lot of extra time to get his degree. And bear in mind that his parents wouldn't like those options either-- their son getting his education and his straight A's is important to them.

None of this applies to me, I get financial aid because my parents are poor (first time that's been a good thing ).

Yep, it got put where I wanted it the same day! He gave up on that part pretty quickly.


That's how I feel about anyone who hasn't shouted in my face and treated me like dirt, as well as inviting themselves to stay. Anybody who acts normal is more than welcome...



Nope, not me either...I don't even think it's the right thing to do, to pretend it never happened when someone really crosses the line. Maybe if people hadn't just let him get away with this kind of thing his whole life, he'd have learned some self-control by now. It's pretty outrageously childish behavior coming from a 60-year-old man.

Thanks for finding that, Soz, that's what I thought it was.

So he can wait a couple of years to be 24, or we can get married ( that'd thrill his parents ). Or he can work more, like evenings or something. We've talked about that, and he just doesn't feel he can maintain the academic level he's at and wants to continue to be at if he has to work enough to cover all of his tuition, books, fees, blah blah, as well as rent here (which is quite high, since it's a college town). <sigh> I think I'd rather do the working more thing, but I can't really force him to see that my way...

I'm just going to keep talking to myself here...It helps me to write things down, so excuse me while I stretch this thread out all by myself...

I see that most everyone feels like the money changes things somewhat. That's what I thought too. But what bugs me is, shouldn't it make a difference that the money has nothing to do with me?

I mean, I can't make Billy not take it, since it's only for his tuition and stuff, it's really not my place to say, "nope, sorry, no help for you. I guess you'll just have to work more." He worked it out on his own with them, he feels that it's a reasonable thing to expect because their income is the reason he can't get government help, etc. So I can't put a stop to it, really. Does this mean I'm beholden to his dad too, and can't say he won't be staying at my house? It really is not money that has to do with paying household expenses, so I feel like this is our house, and he doesn't have a claim on it.

Eoe, I guess I'll specifically address this to you, since you especially feel that the money gives him a toehold: Would you feel like it means I don't have a right to say that the way he treated me was out of line and therefore I won't be seeing him? Does it make a difference that the money isn't anything to do with me? I guess I'm basically saying, yes, I agree that the money makes things more complicated-- but it can't possibly have bought him the right to be verbally abusive to me, so what exactly does it change as far as how I should respond?

There's also student loans. But, as you say, that's for him to decide.

In my opinion, there are two separate issues.

1. No one can buy the right to be rude.

2. Without B's parents' contribution to B's finances, neither of you would be able to live where you are. More of B's total finances would have to go to his education - which would leave less money for B to contribute to your housing costs. So I'd say the money does have something to do with you.

It's definitely something you and B need to sort out as a couple. You've got to priorize what you want and when you want to get it.

The rudeness is a no-go zone for me. B's got to step up to the plate on that one, IMNSHO. He can appreciate what his parents are doing, without allowing his father to behave in such a way toward you.

Thanks for the input, Beth and Drewdad.

So, as far as number two which Beth mentioned: Actually I would still be able to live here, I have enough other money from my job, my financial aid, and an aunt of mine who is helping me with my school costs because she's well off and doesn't have kids of her own (still not "independent", I know, but at least that help is from someone who genuinely wants to help, and has the financial werewithal to do it with no hardship for herself; plus is someone I'm close to, won't hold it against me, etc.) It really is only to make it easier for Billy, not because it's absolutely crucial. That's why I wish he'd change his mind about taking it, and that's why I say it's nothing to do with me: It changes my finances not at all.

He really should just take out a student loan, but he's dead set against starting out with debt, and his parents have agreed with him that it's better to avoid that. Of course, this way he just owes a different kind of debt.

Also, knowing his parents as well as I do, and this is what B and my parents think too, the money's just a convenient excuse for this behavior, and A would be acting possessive and abusive anyway. So B also feels there's no point in his having greater financial hardship, when he'd have just the same problems with his dad anyway (and so would I). Take the money and run, I believe the theory is...

Other than being a rude jerk, which apparently the FIL has a history of, he probably also has feelings of loss, need to be appreciated by his son, etc., that many parents go through as their children become attached and settle down with someone. Those emotion naturally aim against you, the embodiment of those fears. To help him get through those feelings, his son would have to do some work, too. You can only do so much. Doesn't sound very likely. But by addressing those fears directly, you may gain more ground. Or not. Just speculating here, really.

Hey Cypher. I'm late to the party here. lol. That first post had me going "ohh yeah. I know what that is LIKE! Grrr."

Mainly you have my sympathy, 'cause I know those types chou. :wink: I have a bunch of thoughts though.

Eh, is Billy a few years younger? Just reading the whole money situation - sounds like this is gonna be a reoccuring situo you may have to deal with for a while at least.

Totally, 100% feel you do not have to put up with the dad's crap. There is no doubt about that. Keep up the good work there.

I think this is mainly a Billy-and-Cypher thing to work out. He needs to have your back. It's understandable that he has his ways to deal with it, blah blah blah, but, eh, to me I see it as: you two are obviously serious, you've living together, you seem to have a good relationship.....so this is one more thing to work out together and unite on. Otherwise, it could become a source of tension and such later on (it builds).

Just out of curiousity: is there any common ground with you and the dad?
Like, is there anything the two of you can get along about, talk about, or have a similiar interest in? Have you spent time alone ever? Will he talk to you ?

Short story here: Man who I had to deal with who was like your FIL. He'd blow up if you didn't do exactly what he asked, jump when he says jump, and the whole family around him had adapted this intricate system to avoid setting him off.
He was often left out of the loop of important things: they did things behind his back, then 'fixed' the stories and info so it would be acceptable to him. He got info late, too.
Anyways, this guy found more than his fair share of opportunities to yell and puff out his chest at me. I didn't step around him. (I refuse to be intimidated by anyone. Frick, I used to be one of those crazy angry people myself! I know the drill.).

He WILL respect you standing up to him. Not saying he'll like it or change, or stop acting this way. (that would require an entire change in the family dynamic).
You can say what needs to be said then just simply...walk away. Let him yell to himself and the others who want to put up with it.

Just from my own personal experience here; these types of folks are capable of getting along with most of the time - and very much appreciate being spoken to Directly. They like to talk about themselves and their interests. They like to be told what is going on: if you do not hide unneccessary info from him, and recognize his need to be "the king of the castle" of his family (that's where these people get and hold power and authority), it is really doable to get along most of the time.

I'm reaching out on a limb here; but my sense is that it is usually the whole family dynamic that is at stake here. See, you standing up to him threatens the entire family balance they have going on. So you definetly need to keep talking to Billy and the mom. Sucks, but you are sort of a new part of the family now, and that changes things.
Some adjustment pains seems normal.

Ahh, I may be talking out of my ass now. But I think the most important thing is you and your man seeing eye to eye on the whole thing, and not letting this get between you two.

good luck .

Oh, that's a good point, Dag. Like rather than focusing on the money/can he stay here stuff, cut to what we know the underlying strife is, the fear of losing closeness with his son. So I think you're saying maybe reassurance from B would go further than discussions of this other stuff with me?

That makes a lot of sense. The obstacle is that I'm sure he couldn't admit to himself that his problems with me and all of this other stuff is more about his emotional issues with B. Admitting to feelings (shudder) is just so womanly...Also, he wouldn't like to look at his dependence on Billy, that seems too weak, I'm sure. He's been kind of unable to admit that B moving away has been hard for him. Plus, he really does feel that it's my fault that he and Billy aren't super close. He confided a lot of that to my mom on their drive home. Instead of seeing that Billy grew out of letting A impose all of his own interests on his son, he sees that this chick came along and changed his son.

makes sense, cypher. maybe your mom could talk to him a lot more

he doesn't have to admit to feelings. but it could go a long way if he heard reassurance, or appreciation from his son directly. he will deny that it was difficult for him, but he will hear his son say it, that could change a thing or two. i'm pretty sure that that whole sleeping over blowout is just a translation of some of these underlying issues. not sure if B and his dad are able to square off in this sense, but might be worth talking to B about it for starters.

Flushd-- just now saw your response...Thanks so much for your perspective, the guy you're talking about sounds SO similar. Good insight on the bit about how the family has adapted to it-- not giving him all the info so as not to upset him, etc. That's exactly their way of dealing with him. It was part of what led to that confrontation, because I didn't follow the family line of, agree to his face, do what you want behind his back.

I'm going to read over what you wrote a few times, it's very helpful. Oh, and I'm sure you're right that Billy being a few years younger makes a difference in how we handle things like this; plus I'm just naturally a pushier person! (in some ways ) So yeah, the strain this could create between us is definitely one of the big things I'm trying to handle here.

Bingo.

I went on earlier about this thing being about control, not money. Still think so, but money is the ballast for that.

I am not so sure that closeness with his son, whatever closeness that is, another whole subject none of my business, and likely complicated..
will fix dad's needs.

Something to be said for Jespah's point of view, re long term goals.

Dag, that does make a lot of sense...actually you saying that reminded me of some stuff that he slipped into the big rant that I'd forgotten about. He did say some things having to do with his relationship with Billy, that made it sound like that's what the sleeping over thing was really about.

It's hard for me to summon up much sympathy...but I'll try... <grumble grumble>
Maybe Billy can figure out a way to reassure him... <bleah>

Osso, that's what my underlying feeling is, that trying to reassure him that he's still close to Billy isn't workable simply because the way he feels close is by controlling. If he doesn't feel like he's back in control of what B does, I don't think he'll feel that their relationship is what he wants.

While talking with my mom he was waxing nostalgic about things he used to do with Billy that he felt I'd gotten in the way of. The example was fishing-- something they'd only done once that B can remember and hadn't done for seven, eight years before I came along. It was never part of their relationship as far as Billy was concerned, but this is one of the things A misses that in his view I took away...that to me shows that it's going to be pretty hard to make him feel better about their relationship, since he's pretending it was something it never was.

Well, to me you have a fella to deal with here, a fellow, I feel free re age disparity to say is just out to lunch, since I am a tad older and have no need to be reverent, though I do get and listen to Dag's pov.

I don't have any answers.. it may be that you need to get a tiny place under under your name and take none of his money. But maybe not, I sort of like your scenario earlier.

Well, I just sent a kinda long email to B's mom detailing my side of the story...It was extremely hard to bring myself to hit the send button, because I have a feeling I'm just letting myself in for more "you're just keeping it going" angst...Bleah. I prolly should've just kept my mouth shut instead of trying to get her to see my side of it.

I bet I just completely wasted an hour and a half of my life writing that.... I wish I hadn't noticed how long I spent on it-- of course, my cat erased it when I was almost done with the first attempt, and that added about another forty minutes... Ha ha, that krazy kitty! Gotta love her! <grinds>