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Wed 21 Jun, 2006 08:09 pm
Okay, this is an involved story as family drama always is, but I'll try to boil it down all I can: We just moved to a new town. My mom and Billy's dad helped us move, B's dad driving the van, my mom bringing her car to get the two of them home in, me and B in our car.
B's dad, I shall refer to him as A, short for A$$hole, is a controlling type of person and I hate that kind of thing, so I think there'd been a little bit of tension all day between us. He doesn't like an opinionated woman much, I don't think...or at least this specific opinionated woman, heh heh...
There is also an underlying frisson of tension in the air because he's hinted around that he expects to stay in our house whenever he wants to, and I think he realizes that we won't love this idea, but nothing's directly been said.
So, finally it all comes to a head when I say, "If it's really hard getting my treadmill upstairs [to the extra bedroom which A has earmarked as his], just leave it and I'll take it apart later and take it up in pieces."
A: "No, we can get it up there, but I don't think you're going to want it there, too crowded."
Me: "It's okay if it's crowded, that's where I want it."
A: "Who's gonna need a g-d treadmill when you've got the g-d ocean right there?!"
Me: "Well, uh, me. I'll want it."
A:"Yeah, but it's just gonna be too g-d crowded-- no room for someone to throw a mattress down on the floor when they come stay." (starting to get loud and didactic now)
Me: "yeah, but that's not what the room's for. We've been planning on it being the exercise room, we don't care if it's crowded--" (I'm still smiling, thinking it's no big deal..)
And now the screaming starts. Like someone threw a switch, all of a sudden he's flat out shouting at me that he's not going to be told he can't stay with his son! He's not going to be treated like this! He RAISED THE BOY!! MY SON!! MY SON!! (pounding chest) You're selfish! You're ungrateful, I drove that goddamn van for you! You're disrespectful!! And on, and on, and on...all the hidden venom against me that I've always suspected was there...It was disgusting. All because I said I wanted a treadmill in the extra bedroom.
So, what do I do? Do I have to pretend it didn't happen, and fake nicey-nice with this jerk? B's mom lets him treat her shitty all the time, they've always just tiptoed around his temper because that's the easiest thing to do. Now she's pressuring me in an email convo to do the same. She writes, "People say things they shouldn't, and it usually takes two to keep it going." So basically, shut up and forget about it. Ack! I HATE the thought of someone who treated me like that insisting on staying in my house, but do I have to give in for the sake of family peace and to not be the jerk that "keeps it going"?
**** that ****.
I would not be in his presence until I got an apology. No way in hell.
Oh yuck!!
No bright ideas right off. I had a knock-down drag-out with my M-I-L but the two of us were able to resolve it, and things were actually a lot better after that. It wasn't that bad, though (she's much more towards the passive-aggressive side of the spectrum), and it doesn't sound from what you've said like he's a resolution type.
I guess try, just in case, and see? "I love your son very much and would like to have a decent relationship with you, let's talk about this"?
Mostly just sympathy for now, that sucks.
And where is "MY SON! MY SON!" in all of this?
That is abusive. Plus, he's a frigging psycho. Treadmill in room
no FIL staying at the house, whether or not it may have meant that to you. You didn't
say it.
And, even if you did, that may be reason for a confrontation, but not an abusive one.
I hate to suggest recourse that has the potential to cause trouble in your relationship, but there is no way in hell you should submit to the ravings of an unstable lunatic. What does Billy think about all this?
Re: It's an evil father-in-law for a change!
cyphercat wrote:
So, what do I do? Lots of deep breaths. How many? Lots and lots.
Do I have to pretend it didn't happen, and fake nicey-nice with this jerk? No, absolutely not. He now knows he's not a welcome casual guest. Let him get used to the idea.
B's mom lets him treat her shitty all the time, they've always just tiptoed around his temper because that's the easiest thing to do. Now she's pressuring me in an email convo to do the same. She writes, "People say things they shouldn't, and it usually takes two to keep it going." So basically, shut up and forget about it. Ack! I HATE the thought of someone who treated me like that insisting on staying in my house, but do I have to give in for the sake of family peace and to not be the jerk that "keeps it going"?No, no, a thousand times no! Is that what Lash meant with **** that ****? So much simpler the way she said it.
Oh, Lash, how I love you! Thanks for that, knowing I have all that Lash-itude on my side gives me strength!
Soz, the sympathy means a lot. You're so right about him not being the resolution type. B's mom told me recently that he'd apologized to her for something not that long ago, and it was one of the only times she could remember
ever getting an apology from him. So I don't know that there's anyway we'd ever be able to work anything out. He just resents me for so many unreasonable things, and he doesn't listen to reason, either. I really can't even imagine having a normal calm discussion of this with him, I don't know that he'd be capable of it.
I started to say something about maybe that being a red flag re: Billy, having been raised by a father like that, and then I got a flash of being judged on the basis of my parents... oh dear...
What does Billy think about this? It's not his job to resolve it, but where does he stand? For example, if he thinks his dad was flat-out wrong, "**** him" gets easier and I'm all for it. If he thinks you should make nice, that's more complicated.
eoe wrote:And where is "MY SON! MY SON!" in all of this?
Ha, I kept using that line for a while afterwards...He got pretty sick of my chest-thumping imitation!
Well, his first instinct was to take the usual family line, which he's heard his whole life, "Well, that's just how he is. His dad was an alcoholic, he saw this stuff growing up, etc, etc... He doesn't mean it."
That's been their way of dealing with his temper. Just let him do it, don't rile him up, and then it blows over and things go back to normal.
I got the message across to him that that was unacceptable to me, and that it's just been enabling him that they've always let him be like that with no consequences. He's on my side as far as that I shouldn't have to be around him if I don't want to be. But he hasn't been willing to talk to his dad about it so far.
sozobe wrote:I started to say something about maybe that being a red flag re: Billy, having been raised by a father like that, and then I got a flash of being judged on the basis of my parents... oh dear...
What does Billy think about this? It's not his job to resolve it, but where does he stand? For example, if he thinks his dad was flat-out wrong, "**** him" gets easier and I'm all for it. If he thinks you should make nice, that's more complicated.
Yeah, that's what he said when I mentioned that-- he's seen some not-so-good sides of my mom and not held it against me. Plus, praise God, I really think the result of growing up with it has been that he's VERY non-confrontational. He absolutely hates to be around people losing their tempers, has always hated that side of his dad.
I think he's okay with me not seeing him, basically.
What would he think about "I ain't talking to your dad -- much less inviting him to my house -- until I get an apology from him."? If he's OK with it, sounds like that's the way to go. (Though the message would have to be delivered directly, somehow, not fair to put Billy in the middle if it can be avoided.)
Lash wrote:That is abusive. Plus, he's a frigging psycho. Treadmill in room
no FIL staying at the house, whether or not it may have meant that to you. You didn't
say it.
Exactly! The subject of whether it was okay if he stayed here had never been addressed, unless you count him making "jokes" about it, and neither of us piping up with, "Sure, that's fine." I'm sure he sensed that it wouldn't be a thrill for us. I mean, come on, college age kids prolly usually wouldn't be
overjoyed to have parents stay with them, plus he may have a sense that his personality wouldn't make for the best kind of houseguest too. But yeah, bottom line, we were talking about whether I could arrange my house the way I wanted to!
Quote:
And, even if you did, that may be reason for a confrontation, but not an abusive one.
Yeah, exactly again. I was all for just having a normal discussion of how it would work if he stayed, that he'd have to respect our boundaries, but that basically it would be fine. But to just make it a screaming rant...I dunno, i really had some doubts about his sanity while listening to that...
Quote: I hate to suggest recourse that has the potential to cause trouble in your relationship, but there is no way in hell you should submit to the ravings of an unstable lunatic. What does Billy think about all this?
I really am glad that everyone seems to think I'm within the bounds of reason to not see him...The "You're just keeping it going" thing was worrying me...
Uh oh, for a lot of reasons, including that Son has been raised around all this. We have talked about the area you are now living in, Cypher, and I'm familiar with it from my years on the coast.
A. It is your place.
B. Father is acting like an adolescent, must be a veritable caldron of resentments.
C. That ocean is cold. You need the exercise room.
D. I know the area, motels are cheap.
E. The long time practice by many of staying with friends and relatives is a practice fraught with potential cliffedgewalking problems. Enough that visitors spend the majority of some days together already, even that is unusual re real life.
I say this as someone who just stayed with pals for a couple of months.
That saved me hundreds, no, thousands... and the pals and I still like each other. But it takes a certain meld of personalities to work.
Most people who visited me when I lived up north along the coast stayed in various cottages, motels, and several stayed at well rated bed and breakfast places. Another group of folks stayed (individually) in my murphy bedroom, and that always worked out. But... I had a biggish house, no problem.
People need psychological space and not making your planned exercise room available at all is a sane choice. You will be going to school, won't you? You need to control your space. I remember from other of your posts that you take exercising seriously.
Even if you have friends and relatives stay there, not putting your exercise equipment in the room is sheer self-abdegnation. If you do give in to his splenetic control/insistance on staying there, let him bring a sleeping bag.
Guy doesn't bring serenity. I'll agree that he and Son need to be in touch, spend time together. But he needs to learn to let go.
This might all not be couched in "letting go" terms, might be framed as a financial matter. But it is a control matter.
I sure hope you and son can see eye to eye on this.
sozobe wrote:What would he think about "I ain't talking to your dad -- much less inviting him to my house -- until I get an apology from him."? If he's OK with it, sounds like that's the way to go. (Though the message would have to be delivered directly, somehow, not fair to put Billy in the middle if it can be avoided.)
I think he's okay with me telling him that. The thing is, A does not feel he needs to be invited. He feels that it is his
right to stay here, because, may I remind you, this is HIS SON! That HE RAISED!! The end result of this whole thing was him storming out, saying he's either staying here or not visiting his son at all while we are in college. Billy told him later that he could only stay on weekends, because he felt that that was the best he could do unless he wanted to just not see his dad. So, see, I don't even get to say if he can stay here or not. All I can do, and am planning on doing, is to stay in a motel when they visit. That's one of the parts I'm most upset over.
I have to go, but real quick let me throw this in: Billy doesn't qualify for any financial aid because of his parents' income. So he's asked them to give him a monthly allowance that he'll put into his scholarship money account to pay his tuition and books. This money is one of the arguments A used: that he's "paying rent" so he'll be damned if he can't stay here. He would not listen to me that that money is between him and B, and pays school costs, has nothing to do with rent. What do you guys make of that part? Does that money give him some rights to insist on staying here, or make me beholden to him, because I can't prove that it doesn't go towards rent?
Uh huh. If he's old enough to be your husband's father, it's time he outgrew this.
Not sure about the sanity. Sounds, bad, but if mil and husband have been putting up with this since day one. . . . Well, it's not really insane to continue with behavior that keeps getting rewarded. Now, if he's always that way, and keeps getting punched in the nose, he's not sane, for want of a more technical term.
My thinking gets a lot of direction from a friend who spend a few weeks in the forensic ward of the Colorado state hospital. He told us that if a patient gets rowdy, they offer to "tie them down." He said it worked every time. If it didn't, I would say they were crazy.
Oh-oh...
It sort of does give Pops some rights, technically. If he's footing the bill or any parts of the bill, that does entitle him to some consideration, if he chooses to lord it over your head. This is what happens when children play house.
Being an adult means paying your own way and being in a position to call the shots. Billy isn't. And that means, by living with him, that you aren't either.
Other posts happened while I was typing and making zuppa...
so, first, Cypher, I just happen to know there is a terrific AA program in the coastal area you are talking about.
On non-confrontation, avoiding temper, you and your love will have to work all that out. I was raised with sullen silence as the mode for disagreement, raised to be the penultimate passive aggressive. Oh, how likeable. Part of my interest in a2k is learning how sane people make argumentation, debate, discuss. Maybe by the time I'm ninety I'll learn how to disagree without being obnoxiously belligerant, or, worse, coy. Anyway, I have sympathy for your bf, in growing to deal wisely with anger, other people's and his.
Yeah - uh oh.
It doesn not give him any rights at all. Still, being able to pull the financial plug at will gives him enough leverage to negate some of the more obvious solutions.
cyphercat wrote: All I can do, and am planning on doing, is to stay in a motel when they visit. That's one of the parts I'm most upset over.
Understandably! Ugh.
I completely agree with Osso about the whole family-staying-with-visitees thing is just terribly fraught. It's an ongoing source of tension with me in my family. There are specifics with me about really needing down-time in the lipreading marathon that is a visit with either of my parents, but then there are also things like both parents want us to stay with them and get insulted if we don't when we visit, but they both have cats and my husband's allergic --
allergic, it's not just that he doesn't like them -- and I'd rather stay with my husband than have just him go to a hotel, etc., etc.
We had an agreement that my parents wouldn't stay with us from shortly after the kid was born -- got in the habit when she was a little baby and waking up and crying in the middle of the night, then stuck to it. My mom finally successfully lobbied to stay with us, promising to do this and that (give me time in the morning, etc.), kept some promises but not others, it was minimally OK.
Quote:I have to go, but real quick let me throw this in: Billy doesn't qualify for any financial aid because of his parents' income. So he's asked them to give him a monthly allowance that he'll put into his scholarship money account to pay his tuition and books. This money is one of the arguments A used: that he's "paying rent" so he'll be damned if he can't stay here. He would not listen to me that that money is between him and B, and pays school costs, has nothing to do with rent. What do you guys make of that part? Does that money give him some rights to insist on staying here, or make me beholden to him, because I can't prove that it doesn't go towards rent?
Ugh, that definitely complicates things. It
shouldn't, in a rational universe, but it doesn't sound like that's where F-I-L lives. In this day and age, if the parents make too much for the child to qualify for financial aid, the parents should have saved enough to pay at least a chunk of the expenses. And there shouldn't be strings. But again, rational universe...
Sorry you have to deal with this.
Are you and Billy married or just living together?
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