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What's happening with those poor devils at Camp Xray ???

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 02:09 pm
Well once we had Peter Jennings, some ABC technical folks and a very snotty producer aboard for several days, when I was executive officer of Eisenhower. While there they came into posession of some very sensitive information whose secrecy for the next 36 hours was important to us. I politely explained this to the producer, asking for a location where we could reach him ashore to let him know when he could release the information. He indignantly recited the first amendment to me and refused any cooperation. This was minutes before they were scheduled to board a transport aircraft for the flight ashore. I informed the Captain who told me to bring them to the bridge for their goodbyes and that he would take care of it. On the bridge while exchanging a few gracious thank yous and goodbyes the Captain, looking down on the flight deck where their transport was warming up behind the bow catapult, called the Air Boss to say he thought he saw a hydraulic leak on the aircraft and directed hin to have it checked out. Moments later the call back - we could hear only the Captain's part of the conversation -- "hydraulic leak in the rudder actuator; that's bad. Get the aircraft off the flight deck now - we have 30 aircraft to launch" "I know it will be a long time before you can get it back up: do the best you can.". He fixed his eye on the producer and said softly. "looks like you won't be going anywhere for a day ot two."

The producer was indignant. Jennings understood. They stayed for two more days.

I agree we couldn't have done this for months or years - unless we were directed to do so.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 07:17 pm
Sofia wrote:
This is the hero you want to protect?


Who's talking of heroes? Has anyone on this thread called Padilla or his like a hero?

Noone's defending him - people here are speaking up about his rights.

Its easy to defend the rights of those you agree with and admire - the test is on whether you are willing to defend the rights of those you disagree with or even loathe.

Its like with freedom of speech - what was the famous quote? I may not agree with a single word of what you say, but I would fight for your right to say it?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 07:20 pm
<reads on>

Uh oh - guess I was a little late in coming up with that post - 's all been discussed already.

Still, I really wonder about this "hero" and "sympathy" stuff - remember those posts a few page back about having "no sympathy for these guys"? Its not about sympathy or thinking this or that guy is good - its about believing that each of our countries are only as much of a state of law as the point to which our laws apply to the worst of us, too.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 07:25 pm
Hero was the word I chose. Didn't say or mean to imply someone had categorized him as such. He seemed to have recieved a hero's defense.

Very simply, I am glad he hasn't been released, although I hope his case will be resolved timely. Because I don't know the exact security issues of why he is continuing to be held as he is, I am more patient about the resolution than those who have less faith in the administration.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 07:41 pm
Sofia wrote:
I'm pretty sure most of us are anti-Padilla, but it is so easy (to me) to champion the right to trial/proper release--I want to do it, too--but, I'm stopped by the responsibility for what some inflamed terrorists may do with that freedom/release.

Again, I would like someone to tell me who would they blame if a released Padilla blew people up. The same one they're blaming for holding him...?


True - the scale is a lot bigger - but in principle this happens all the time, I think. Murderers walk free because the state prosecutors failed to make their case in time, in the right way, etc - and they end up going out and killing more people.

Do we blame the prosecutors for any errors they made in the process, that contributed to having had to let him go? Yes, we usually do. Do we blame them for letting the guy go when they had to - instead of declaring it an exceptional case and detaining him regardless? No, we don't, usually. We don't tend to declare our legal system temporarily unapplicable because someone is accused of too heinous a crime.

My two cents, anyway ...
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 08:51 pm
scratty baby

Well done
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 10:21 pm
dyslexia wrote:
scrat said:
Quote:
I have to change my opinion and state that it looks like the detainees should be treated as POWs and afforded all Geneva protections until such time as a competant tribunal has ruled that they are not POWs under Geneva.

I'm reposting this for you scrat, it seems someone is posting an exceptional opinion of liberal interpretation and posting it under your name. I thought you would like to know that someone is using your name and besmerching your reputation.

Too clever by half, Dys. Laughing

Seriously, though. What precisely is "liberal" about this opinion?

(I did enjoy your joke though, in case that isn't clear!)
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 10:23 pm
scrat Laughing we are all brothers under the sun, let it shine on all of us.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2003 10:23 pm
blatham wrote:
scratty baby

Well done

Hey, I've got no qualms about changing my opinion when presented with information I didn't have that clearly suggests I'm on the wrong side of the facts. This appears to be one such case.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2004 02:37 am
Quote:
Guantanamo families to take fight to US
American civil liberties group to help British detainees

Tania Branigan
Wednesday January 21, 2004
The Guardian

The families of British detainees at Guantanamo Bay are to take their fight for the men's release to the US with the help of the foremost American civil liberties group, they announced yesterday.
Politicians, campaigners and lawyers joined relatives of the prisoners to launch the Guantanamo Human Rights Commission at the House of Commons.

A delegation will travel to Washington in March to lobby politicians and raise awareness of the detainees' plight with the backing of the American Civil Liberties Union.

Nine Britons and three British residents are among the 660 men who have been held at the American naval base in Cuba for more than two years without charge or access to lawyers. Another 11 Europeans, several from France, Sweden and Germany, are also detained at Camp Delta.

"We have to speak not only to the courts of law but to the court of public opinion," Nadine Strossen, the president of the ACLU, said. She said there was growing concern over the Bush administration's actions in the "war on terror".

"The [involvement of the] families will put a human face on a very compelling legal issue."

The visit should coincide with the filing of the US government's brief in a high profile supreme court case that will determine whether American courts have jurisdiction over Guantanamo Bay.

Ms Strossen said the Bush administration "should be getting very nervous about the outcome" of the hearing.

A defeat would be embarrassing and particularly unwelcome in an election year, and American legal experts have speculated that the US is keen to return the Britons because two are plaintiffs in the case. A senior US diplomat recently suggested that a deal was imminent.

But previous rumours of the detainees' release have proved unfounded and, even if most are repatriated, it is feared that Feroz Abbasi, from Croydon, and Moazzam Begg, from Birmingham, might still be held. The pair have been named as potential defendants who could face military tribunals on unspecified charges.

There is also concern about the fate of the three British residents, since the government represents only British citizens, and nationals from other European countries.

The commission, which unites families from across Europe, is the most organised attempt to date to win justice for the prisoners.

Corin Redgrave, the founder of the commission, said it aimed to "appeal to the American conscience" to ensure that the prisoners were charged and tried according to the standards of international law.

"It is plain and clear that the treatment of these 660 being held without charge, without access to a lawyer, without access to a court, violates the most fundamental of human rights," said Philippe Sands QC, professor of law at University College, London.

Mr Begg's father, Azmat, said he believed that the American public would support the families when they learned about the detainees.

"All I want is justice for my son," he told the meeting.

"Democracy and justice cannot exist in any country unless governments act according to international human rights law and the conventions that apply to captured prisoners."

Mr Abbasi's mother, Zumrati Juma, said she was disap pointed at the lack of support she had received from the British government.

Patrons of the new commission include the novelists Margaret Drabble and Hari Kunzru; the former special envoy on Chechnya to the Council of Europe, Lord Judd; the MP Peter Kilfoyle and Baroness Sarah Ludford, an MEP; and Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, the leader of the Muslim parliament. Actors Vanessa Redgrave and Ian Holm, and the playwright David Hare, also support the group.

SOURCE
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2004 08:38 am
Quote:
Guantanamo spy cases evaporate

Chaplain and Arabic translator are now facing only lesser charges


Washington Post
By John Mintz

Last September, top officials of the Navy prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, told a military judge in Florida that the prison's Muslim chaplain, Army Capt. James Yee, would soon be charged with mutiny, sedition, espionage, spying and aiding the enemy -- crimes that could lead to his execution.

Based on those allegations, Yee was held in solitary confinement in a Navy brig in South Carolina for 76 days. But authorities never charged him with any of those offenses. Instead, Yee will face much less serious charges, such as mishandling classified materials and adultery, when the case against him resumes at a hearing at Fort Benning, Ga., scheduled for Feb. 4.

At the same time Yee was being detained, Air Force Senior Airman Ahmad I. Halabi, who worked as an Arabic translator at Guantanamo Bay, was also in solitary confinement 3,000 miles away, held in California on charges of espionage and aiding the enemy. In time, the most serious of those allegations have been withdrawn as well.

Riddled with inconsistencies

Some experts on military law and the men's lawyers say the prosecutions of Yee and Halabi have been riddled with inconsistencies and oddities that cast doubt on the government's original fears that a spy ring was operating in the high-security prison for alleged al Qaeda and Taliban fighters.

"I find it difficult to believe professional prosecutors are proceeding with these two cases in this manner," said Gary D. Solis, a former Marine Corps prosecutor who teaches the law of war at Georgetown University. "The ineptitude at each step of the proceeding is amazing. . . . It seems there's been investigative overreaction in both cases."

Even now, prosecutors have not made final determinations that some of the documents Halabi was charged with possessing were, in fact, classified -- and, if they were, what level of security applied to them. As a result, his lead civilian attorney, Donald G. Rehkopf Jr., said he has only a hazy picture of why his client was arrested last July.

A similar review of documents in the Yee case was finished only in recent days.

In an unusual episode last month, military investigators raided offices used by Halabi's military lawyers at an Air Force base in California, temporarily seizing one computer and copying its hard drive in a search for evidence against the airman.

Rehkopf protested the search in a letter to Air Force officials, calling it "bizarre" and "a conscious disregard of the attorney-client relationship."

"We are imploring the senior leadership of the Air Force to get this case under control," the letter said. [..]
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2004 08:47 am
Quote:
Guantanamo lawyer renews attack
The US military lawyer assigned to defend the man dubbed the "Australian Taleban" has complained that his client will not receive a full and fair trial.


Major Michael Mori represents "enemy combatant" David Hicks, one of six Guantanamo Bay inmates deemed eligible for trial by a US military commission.

Major Mori said those who had created the tribunals process had a "vested interest" in securing convictions.

Canberra, however, says it favours Mr Hicks remaining in US custody.


It says it believes Mr Hicks has a case to answer.

But Attorney General Philip Ruddock reportedly told Australian radio that, if the two Australian Guantanamo detainees were returned, "there are no charges that we would be able to bring against them under our law as it was at that time".

Mr Hicks was captured in Afghanistan in 2001, apparently while fighting for the Taleban.

Open attack

Marine Corps Major Mori's disquiet was initially made clear last week, when he and four other lawyers assigned to Guantanamo detainees criticised the tribunal in a "friend-of-the-court" brief filed with the Supreme Court.

But Major Mori said their concerns had not been addressed, and he renewed his criticism on Wednesday, this time in an open attack conveyed directly to reporters.

"The military commissions will not provide a full and fair trial," Mori told the news conference in a Washington suburb on Wednesday.

"The commission process has been created and controlled by those with a vested interest only in convictions."

He said that because Mr Hicks had not been charged with anything, it would be difficult to prepare his defence.

Under the rules of the tribunal system, the Pentagon is allowed to monitor communications between detainees and their lawyers.

'Double standards'

The trials will be conducted behind closed doors, and there is no right to appeal in a civilian court.

However, Washington and Canberra have agreed that Mr Hicks and another Australian prisoner, Mamdouh Habib, will not face the death penalty and will be able to serve any sentence in Australia.

But Major Mori warned the tribunals could establish "a dangerous precedent.

"The reality is, we wouldn't tolerate these rules if they were applied to US citizens," he said.

SOURCE
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2004 04:09 pm
Quote:
AP: Afghan boy talks about Guantanamo

By Noor Khan, Associated Press Writer, 2/7/2004

NAW ZAD, Afghanistan -- A 15-year-old boy released after spending a year at the U.S. prison for terror suspects in Cuba says he was detained after Afghan militiamen falsely accused him of being a Taliban sympathizer.

Mohammed Ismail Agha was reunited last week with his family in a remote southern Afghan village after a year as one of the youngest inmates in Guantanamo Bay, which holds hundreds of suspected al-Qaida and Taliban fighters detained since the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan began after the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

Agha, who was one of three Afghan boys released, said in his first interview since his release that the U.S. military "stole" 14 months of his life -- but still treated him well.

His case highlights the perils facing young Afghans caught between a virulent Taliban insurgency roiling their country's south and east and American forces hunting them with the aid of sometimes brutal Afghan allies.

Agha said American forces interrogated him at Bagram Air Base, north of the capital, Kabul, about whether he was a Taliban supporter. Yet once he reached Cuba, there were few questions, only schooling, prayer and good food.

"At first I was unhappy with the U.S. forces. They stole 14 months of my life," said Agha, sitting in a relative's general store at the bazaar in Naw Zad, a market town some 300 miles southwest of Kabul.

He said his family feared he was dead or had traveled to neighboring Pakistan or Iran to find work. It was not until 10 months into his detention that family members received a letter from him through the Red Cross, saying he was still alive.

"But they gave me a good time in Cuba. They were very nice to me, giving me English lessons," said a smiling Agha, his small beard and white turban making him look a few years older.

Naw Zad officials sent a messenger to summon Agha from Durabien village, where he lives, to talk to reporters, warning that there were Taliban in the hills where he lived. It was the first interview given by any of the three Afghan boys since their Jan. 29 release from Guantanamo.

Agha denied having anything to do with the ousted Islamic militia now mounting a vicious insurgency.

"I'm not Taliban, it's not true. I'm innocent," he said.

American officials said last week that one of the three Afghan boys told of being conscripted into an anti-American militia group. A second said he was abducted by the Taliban and forced to train and fight, while the third was studying in an extremist mosque and captured while preparing to obtain weapons.

They declined to elaborate, saying that identifying the boys could put them in danger.

Human rights groups have long criticized the boys' detentions, saying the separation from their families would hurt them. They also complained that the boys, like hundreds of adult prisoners, had no access to lawyers.

But the Pentagon has insisted that age plays no role in deciding who is held as any "enemy combatant."

Agha says his odyssey began when he and a friend left their farming community for Lashkargah, the capital of Helmand province, in late 2003, a year after the Taliban was ousted by a U.S.-led coalition. The militants since have maintained a stubborn insurgency in southern provinces, including Helmand.

The boys were standing outside a shop in a town along the way when they were detained by Afghan militiamen.

"They said, 'Come and join us,' but we told them we are poor people, jobless, and we don't want to join the militia, we want to earn money," Agha said. "Then they said, 'You are Taliban.'"

Agha said he then was handed over to American soldiers, who first took him to the southern city of Kandahar and then to Bagram, where he was held in solitary confinement. He lost track of his friend, Mohammed Wali, in Kandahar and has not seen him since.

"They were interrogating me everyday and in the first three or four days giving just a little food, and giving punishment," he said.

He was not beaten but was made to sit on his haunches for three or four hours at a time, even when he wanted to sleep, he said.

"They were asking me if I was Taliban. I said, 'No, I'm innocent.' I thought they would release me, but instead they sent me to Cuba," he said.

Agha said he was hooded and had no idea where he was going until he got off a plane on the other side of the world in February 2003.

"For two or three days I was confused, but later the Americans were so nice with me, they were giving me good food with fruit and water for ablutions before prayer," he said.

Besides teaching him read and write English, the military provided books in his native Pashto language and a Quran, Islam's sacred book.

He was housed with two other Afghans he identified as Naqibullah, 15, and Hasadullah, 13, who also were released Jan. 29 and brought home last week. He never saw the other prisoners detained at Guantanamo, he said.

The soldiers looking after the boys gave them a send-off dinner, taking photographs and urging them to return to school.

Agha said he was too poor for that, so his search for work will resume once he visits all his relatives.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2004 04:30 pm
thanks nimh, I hadn't seen this account
0 Replies
 
eamy smith
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 04:55 am
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 06:01 am
Re: Poor devils?
eamy_smith wrote:

There has never been a trial to find out, so how do you know that?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 07:20 am
Quote:
murderous Islamic scum.

Rolling Eyes When did this place become the province of the unwashed and uneducated?
0 Replies
 
eamy smith
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 07:53 am
Murderous Islamic Scum
<<<There has never been a trial to find out, so how do you know that?>>>

I can only hope the military trials start soon then. If found guilty they should be executed without delay.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 09:03 am
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
murderous Islamic scum.

Rolling Eyes When did this place become the province of the unwashed and uneducated?

If by "the province of the unwashed and uneducated" you mean a place where it is okay to spew anti-religious rhetoric, then this place became that a long time ago. I can't remember the last political discussion I read through where someone didn't bash Christians in one way or another.

Or is anti-religious rhetoric only bad when applied to certain religions?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2004 01:01 pm
Continuing a recent process of releasing to their home governments Guantanamo detainees who are citizens of European states, the US Defense Department announced Monday that it had completed the transfer to Russian authorities of seven Russian detainees who will continue their detention in Russia. This latest transfer follows hand-overs in the past several weeks of a Spaniard, five Britons, and a Dane. The Pentagon says that a total of 88 detainees have been released so far, 12 of them (the 7 seven Russians, 4 Saudis and the Spaniard) for continued detention by their own states.

DoD Press Release
0 Replies
 
 

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