What's happening with those poor devils at Camp Xray ???

Anyone care to tell me what this David Hicks did? Or did the US go over and snatch him out of his bed in Bumwalla Falls?

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I don't know quite how to say this, Scrat, but they don't get my sympathy either. Still, they are being held in cages, which can't be anything other than punishment, and nobody knows the crime they are supposed to have committed. They haven't been tried,and they haven't been charged. They may well deserve confinement. They may need to be confined. They probably do. It's past time to prove it.

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gozmo wrote:

Well there is a guy from my hometown in that camp. He has been there for two years and spent the last six months in solitary confinement. This week he was allowed a telephone conersation with his father, strictly censored of course. Last week he saw his lawyers for the first time. If you want to see the human side of this affair take a look at this site : http://www.fairgofordavid.org/

From the site above:

Hicks, 28, has been held without charge by the US military at Guantanamo Bay since he was captured in late 2001 fighting with the former Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

Captured while fighting against American soldiers while un-uniformed along side enemies of the United States.

No sympathy here.
No uniform = Not a 'regular' soldier = Not covered by Geneva Convention

If he didn't want to be captured, he should have put the rifle down and headed for the airport when the Americans landed in Afghanistan.

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Does anyone find it a bit unbalanced that Sadaam will be held and tried in conditions completely unlike those fellows above?

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Thats because Saddam will be tried by Iraqis for crimes against the Iraqi people.

Those in G'tmo will be tried by America for crimes against Americans.

You are talking about two entirely different situations.

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Ah, but Fedral, isn't it possible that what you call 'crimes against Americans' is what the prisoners might call defending their country against an outside invader? That's the issue, really. I don't know what crimes they committed. I don't think you do. I do like to think that if America were invaded by, Bulgarians for instance, I would take up arms to defend the country - regardless of what our president might have done.

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Fedral wrote:

Thats because Saddam will be tried by Iraqis for crimes against the Iraqi people.

Those in G'tmo will be tried by America for crimes against Americans.

You are talking about two entirely different situations.

What are these crimes against Americans? These people are Taliban. They may hate America but that is not a crime. They were attacked by Americans and defended themselves. What did you think they would do? What would you do? After two years your military has been unable to concoct charges against these men. They are political prisoners who your regime would have to release immediately if they were on US soil.

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When you are at war with another country--whether your cause is just or not--you realize you may die. You are actually donating your life to your cause as you join in the fight.

If you win--great. If not, and if the opposing army chooses to keep you alive rather than kill you, as is their right...you are at their mercy. Again, we are more merciful than many other nations.

They were caught in progress of fighting a war.

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Sofia wrote:

They were caught in progress of fighting a war.

How do you know? All you have is one interested party's account of it, and the account happens to support the case of said interested party. Nothing you, or I, as citizens can use for forming a qualified opinion.

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OK feral

You said:
"No sympathy here.
No uniform = Not a 'regular' soldier = Not covered by Geneva Convention"

Hey they weren't wearing uniforms when they fought the west's war against the Russians. So I must assume you also believe the summary executions carried out by the Russians were legal.

There ain't two sets of rules. It took a long time to get Pinochet but we got him. Let me assure you Bush, Blair, Howard and others will one day face trial for their actions. There are too many of us who are fed up with their hypocrisy to allow them to escape. The only way we will get a better world is to ensure their like are punished. What a list it will make Pinochet, Milosevic, Bush , Blair..................

Come out from behind your flag and look what has been done in its name.

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gozmo wrote:

Fedral wrote:
Thats because Saddam will be tried by Iraqis for crimes against the Iraqi people.

Those in G'tmo will be tried by America for crimes against Americans.

You are talking about two entirely different situations.

What are these crimes against Americans?

It was discovered that al-Quaida thrived in Afghanistan, aided and financed by the Taliban. The Taliban were given the choice to take care of the al-Quaida in their borders, or to be considered their allies. They chose to ally with al-Quaida--and are therefore partners in their crimes.

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Sofia wrote:

When you are at war with another country--whether your cause is just or not--you realize you may die. You are actually donating your life to your cause as you join in the fight.

If you win--great. If not, and if the opposing army chooses to keep you alive rather than kill you, as is their right...you are at their mercy. Again, we are more merciful than many other nations.

They were caught in progress of fighting a war.

Sofia,

Is this a dictum of Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun

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Sofia,

I give you the choice of agreeing with me or not. Remember it is a choice but I must warn you if you do not agree I shall declare you an outlaw and your life will be forfeit.

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It is amazing how you guys can skip over the phrase "without being charged". Will one of you please consider the possible meaning of that. Perhaps then you may begin to understand why they are held in a legal no man's land. They are an embarrassment to your regime. Again they acted without thinking and haven't a clue what to do next.

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Fedral wrote:

gozmo wrote:
Well there is a guy from my hometown in that camp. He has been there for two years and spent the last six months in solitary confinement. This week he was allowed a telephone conersation with his father, strictly censored of course. Last week he saw his lawyers for the first time. If you want to see the human side of this affair take a look at this site : http://www.fairgofordavid.org/

From the site above:

Hicks, 28, has been held without charge by the US military at Guantanamo Bay since he was captured in late 2001 fighting with the former Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

Captured while fighting against American soldiers while un-uniformed along side enemies of the United States.

No sympathy here.
No uniform = Not a 'regular' soldier = Not covered by Geneva Convention

If he didn't want to be captured, he should have put the rifle down and headed for the airport when the Americans landed in Afghanistan.

Bingo.

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blatham wrote:

Does anyone find it a bit unbalanced that Sadaam will be held and tried in conditions completely unlike those fellows above?

Does anyone not get that Saddam falls into a very different category than they?

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Scrat wrote:

blatham wrote:
Does anyone find it a bit unbalanced that Sadaam will be held and tried in conditions completely unlike those fellows above?

Does anyone not get that Saddam falls into a very different category than they?

Apparently you don't understand what you read. Saddam is in a totally different category because he is a big time bad guy but he is treated as a prisoner of war and these almost certainly innocent men are thrown into no man's land. To use an Americanism GO FIGURE.

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gozmo wrote:

Scrat wrote:
blatham wrote:
Does anyone find it a bit unbalanced that Sadaam will be held and tried in conditions completely unlike those fellows above?

Does anyone not get that Saddam falls into a very different category than they?

Apparently you don't understand what you read. Saddam is in a totally different category because he is a big time bad guy but he is treated as a prisoner of war and these almost certainly innocent men are thrown into no man's land. To use an Americanism GO FIGURE.

these almost certainly innocent men are thrown into no man's land. ???????

How do you figure? Can you explain why you think these men are almost certainly innocent?

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Sofia wrote:

When you are at war with another country--whether your cause is just or not--you realize you may die. You are actually donating your life to your cause as you join in the fight.

If you win--great. If not, and if the opposing army chooses to keep you alive rather than kill you, as is their right...you are at their mercy. Again, we are more merciful than many other nations.

They were caught in progress of fighting a war.

Even in the times of the 30-years-war people got more respect in fights/wars.

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gozmo wrote:

Sofia wrote:
When you are at war with another country--whether your cause is just or not--you realize you may die. You are actually donating your life to your cause as you join in the fight.

If you win--great. If not, and if the opposing army chooses to keep you alive rather than kill you, as is their right...you are at their mercy. Again, we are more merciful than many other nations.

They were caught in progress of fighting a war.

Sofia,

Is this a dictum of Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun

If the prisoners' heads are skewered on a pole--it is Ghengis.
Entrails on his platter; Attila.
Eating and dressing better than they were before--must be America.

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What's happening with those poor devils at Camp Xray ???

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