English is a messed up language...

Craven,

Your explanation was the one I gave to my student. It was one of the few times that English actually made some sense, kinda.

Prepositions drive foreigners crazy. Too narrow a statement. English drives foreigners crazy. Few hard and fast rules. Spelling designed by a sadist.

Sadists: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1349

Thanks for the link, Craven. I went there. I read everything. I couldn't think of a damned thing to say.

Duh.

Just thought of something here...If we say "a pair of pants" or "a pair[/i] of tights" because we have 2 legs, why don't we also say "a pair of bra"??

Bollocks! :wink:

What about 'scissors'? Have you ever seen one scissor?

In the UK and Ireland, that elasticated piece of gentlemen's apparel to hold up one's trousers, which I believe are called suspenders in the United States, are called braces. If one wished to purchase this item, one would ask for " a pair of braces".

I remember as a young man of 17 years of age going into that world famous Haberdashers, Moss Bros, in London,to order my very first bespoke suiting. (Where did 'bespoke' come from?).

Anyway, on entering this establishment I was approached - no "approached" is the wrong word, a personage in a funereal suiting glided towards me and said "Good Morning Sir - and how may we assist"? By the tone of his voice I had the faintest suspicion that he was going to find it impossible to help me, and the word "Sir" passing over his lips had just the faintest tinge of scurrility about it. When I made my wishes known, he pursed his lips doubtfully, and armed with a 5 foot long tape measure and French chalk proceeded to measure me.

When we got to the trousering measurements he said, "And how do we dress Sir?"

"Eh?" quoth I.

Patience dripping from his every feature,n he said, "When we get up in the Morning Sir, how do we put on our trousering - on which side do we dress?"

I said, "Ah! Well I sit in the edge of the bed and put one leg in at a time".

After chewing futilely on the metal end of the tape measure he said,
"Where do we place our ah - private parts, - on the left side or the right side of of the fork of our trousering?"

So from then on I knew that when a tailor asked you which side you dressed on, he didn't mean which side of the bed.

Love it, Tommy! Just love that story!

There is an establishment in the city of Boston, the state of Massachusetts, the USA, known as Brooks Brothers, a gentlemen's clothier which aspires to a status similar to the one that Moss Brothers rightly enjoys. When I was of about the same age as you were when you went to be measured for your bespoke suit, I went into Brooks Bros. with the intention of buying a pair of suspenders. Well, that's what I called 'em, dammit.

I was approached by a personage who must have been the identical twin of your salesman. Same manner, same accent, even.

"I'm looking for a pair of suspenders."

Eyebrow slightly arched. "Sir?"

"Suspenders," said I, now slightly flustered.

Hurried consultation with a colleague, who had drifted up noiselsessly. Dawning of understanding, nod of head.

"Ah. The gentleman means 'braces.' Second floor, rear...sir."

To utter that 'sir' must have cost the man dearly.

Tommy, that's a real gem, one I'll have to remember in case I ever get tailored up. As it is now, all my trews are off the peg -- unbespoken, I 'spect you'd say.

There was a time, late 50's-early 60's, when pegged pants - or trousers, as you'll be after saying - meant something different than off the peg. Pegged pants were tapered so as to fit fairly close around the legs, particularly in the calf and ankle area -- a rock 'n roll fashion revolt against the baggy, pleated look of the 40's and early 50's, I reckon.

I would perhaps tell a bit about my galligaskins if to do so didn't entail bespeaking more of my age. :wink:

On with the galligaskins then , Deb, and hang your age!

I thought all mens type people knew what "dress" meant - I do.......teehee....I thought it was one of those bits of information that were conveyed to growing boys, along with personal hygiene and the proper use of elbows - but clearly 'tis far more esoteric than that.

I take it that, in non-tailored suits, one may dress where one pleases? Does one, generally, grasp this bit of sartorial freedom with both hands, as it were, and dress differently? Or does one make a lifestyle choice about this early and stick to it?

I am not altogether sure that I may not, at times, refer to a pair of bras..........

Hmmm - in men's wear, one dresses - but women wear dresses.

Or frocks....

I could say, that's a frockin' shame, but I'll restrain myself.

Indeed - and we are all very grateful to you.....

but tv's like to "dress" so I am reliably informed

(Shamelessly stolen from P45 . . . posted by Jockywocky)

Dearest creature in creation
Studying English pronunciation,

I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse

I will keep you, Susy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.

Tear in eye your dress you'll tear,
So shall I! Oh, hear my prayer,

Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it!

Just compare heart, beard and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,

Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written).

Made has not the sound of bade,
Say said, pay - paid, laid, but plaid.

Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as vague and ague,

But be careful how you speak,
Say break, steak, but bleak and streak.

Previous, precious, fuchsia, via,
Pipe, snipe, recipe and choir,

Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, shoe, poem, toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery:
Daughter, laughter and Terpsichore,

Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles.
Exiles, similes, reviles.

Wholly, holly, signal, signing.
Thames, examining, combining

Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war, and far.

From "desire": desirable, admirable from "admire."
Lumber, plumber, bier, but brier.

Chatham, brougham, renown, but known.
Knowledge, done, but gone and tone,

One, anemone. Balmoral.
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel,

Gertrude, German, wind, and mind.
Scene, Melpomene, mankind,

Tortoise, turquoise, chamois - leather,
Reading, reading, heathen, heather.

This phonetic labyrinth
Gives moss, gross, brook, brooch, ninth, plinth.

Billet does not end like ballet;
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet;

Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.

Banquet is not nearly parquet,
Which is said to rhyme with "darky."

Viscous, Viscount, load, and broad.
Toward, to forward, to reward.

And your pronunciation's O.K.,
When you say correctly: croquet.

Rounded, wounded, grieve, and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive, and live,

Liberty, library, heave, and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven,

We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.

Mark the difference, moreover,
Between mover, plover, Dover,

Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police, and lice.

Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label,

Petal, penal, and canal,
Wait, surmise, plait, promise, pal.

Suit, suite, ruin, circuit, conduit,
Rime with "shirk it" and "beyond it."

But it is not hard to tell,
Why it's pall, mall, but Pall Mall.

Muscle, muscular, gaol, iron,
Timber, climber, bullion, lion,

Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, and chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor,

Ivy, privy, famous, clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.

Pussy, hussy, and possess,
Desert, but dessert, address.

Golf, wolf, countenance, lieutenants.
Hoist, in lieu of flags, left pennants.

River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.

Stranger does not rhyme with anger.
Neither does devour with clangour.

Soul, but foul and gaunt but aunt.
Font, front, won't, want, grand, and grant.

Shoes, goes, does. Now first say: finger.
And then: singer, ginger, linger,

Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.

Dost, lost, post; and doth, cloth, loth;
Job, Job; blossom, bosom, oath.

Though the difference seems little,
We say actual, but victual.

Seat, sweat; chaste, caste.; Leigh, eight, height;
Put, nut; granite, and unite.

Reefer does not rhyme with deafer,
Feoffer does, and zephyr, heifer.

Dull, bull, Geoffrey, George, ate, late,
Hint, pint, Senate, but sedate.

Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific,

Tour, but our and succour, four,
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.

Sea, idea, guinea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria,

Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean,
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion with battalion.

Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, key, quay.

Say aver, but ever, fever.
Neither, leisure, skein, receiver.

Never guess - it is not safe:
We say calves, valves, half, but Ralph.

Heron, granary, canary,
Crevice and device, and eyrie,

Face but preface, but efface,
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.

Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust, and scour, but scourging,

Ear but earn, and wear and bear
Do not rhyme with here, but ere.

Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen,

Monkey, donkey, clerk, and jerk,
Asp, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation - think of psyche!
Is a paling, stout and spikey,

Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing "groats" and saying "grits"?

It's a dark abyss or tunnel,
Strewn with stones, like rowlock, gunwale,

Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict, and indict!

Don't you think so, reader, rather,
Saying lather, bather, father?

Finally: which rhymes with "enough"
Though, through, plough, cough, hough, or tough?

Hiccough has the sound of "cup."
My advice is - give it up!

Yikes - faints with effort to pronounce it all properly out loud!

thud

Yikes - faints with effort to pronounce it all properly out loud!

thud

I'll thud to that.

And I thought Russian was difficult.

I liked the bit that goes

Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen,

You can keep the rest.

I'm thinking of printing that out, Setanta, and using it as a teaching aid when English spelling is discussed.

On second thought . . .