dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 05:27 pm
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
Frank and Set... two of my favorite posters, having an argument. Think I'll sit this one out and take a little communion wine. A nice Shiraz or perhaps a Tawny Port.

You got no Mogan David?
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 05:34 pm
that's so.... Old Testament....
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 06:47 pm
I think their arguments warrant a macho Thunderbird.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 06:52 pm
If you guys keep drinking til I let Set back on the puter ... hmmmmmmmm ... keep on drinking
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 07:56 pm
BVT, I'll take a tawny port, if you please....

Carry on, Frank and Set.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 09:50 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
Chumly wrote:
Nope because unless or until you can demonstrate one theology to be merited beyond another all must be treated equally from the persptove of your open-minded pretext. It does not matter one iota what name you give them; "hypothetical" or any other moniker.


While I agree with lots of what you say...I certainly disagree with this thought thread.

It not only is possible to be open-minded and still give various "explanations for REALITY" different amounts of credence...it is almost incumbent upon an open-minded person to do so.
Sherbet I am referring to theology not realty.

By theology I mean:
A system or school of opinions concerning God and religious questions of which I claimed "my dog blinked the universe into existence in its entirely 10 minutes ago" and my "religion that demands the extermination of all lesser peoples" to be requiring of the same degree of open-mindedness as per any other theology. Why? Because I have yet to see any theology demonstrate itself as being the more likely than another or to have a higher level of truly objective merit.

What makes the Dog Blink Universe theology (for example) to be less merited than a more popular theology? Nothing that I can see.

By realty I mean:
That which exists objectively and in fact.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 02:11 am
Chumly wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Chumly wrote:
Nope because unless or until you can demonstrate one theology to be merited beyond another all must be treated equally from the persptove of your open-minded pretext. It does not matter one iota what name you give them; "hypothetical" or any other moniker.


While I agree with lots of what you say...I certainly disagree with this thought thread.

It not only is possible to be open-minded and still give various "explanations for REALITY" different amounts of credence...it is almost incumbent upon an open-minded person to do so.
Sherbet I am referring to theology not realty.

By theology I mean:
A system or school of opinions concerning God and religious questions of which I claimed "my dog blinked the universe into existence in its entirely 10 minutes ago" and my "religion that demands the extermination of all lesser peoples" to be requiring of the same degree of open-mindedness as per any other theology. Why? Because I have yet to see any theology demonstrate itself as being the more likely than another or to have a higher level of truly objective merit.

What makes the Dog Blink Universe theology (for example) to be less merited than a more popular theology? Nothing that I can see.

By realty I mean:
That which exists objectively and in fact.


I understand your explanation...but I reiterate:

It is possible to be open-minded...and still not give different "explanations" of REALITY different amounts of credence. In its context...the "my dog blinked the universe into existence" simply does not merit a great deal of credence. The possibility there are gods...or the possibility there are no gods...does.

Of course, all this is strictly my own opinion...and intelligent people can reasonably disagree.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 02:45 am
Why does the Jujuism theology merit a different amount of credence as compared to the "dog blinked universe"? Why does the "dog blinked universe" merit any less credence than the Mayan theology?

In essence, where is your argument / evidence to demonstrate one theology deserves more credence in this context than other? You have provided none. I know of none. Unless or until such argument / evidence is forthcoming it can only be argued that all theologies have equal credence in this context. Cats were worshiped in Egypt. In fact many cultures have had animals in their creation theologies.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 02:55 am
Chumly wrote:
Why does the Jujuism theology merit a different amount of credence as compared to the "dog blinked universe"? Why does the "dog blinked universe" merit any less credence than the Mayan theology?

In essence, where is your argument / evidence to demonstrate one theology deserves more credence in this context than other? You have provided none. I know of none. Unless or until such argument / evidence is forthcoming it can only be argued that all theologies have equal credence in this context. Cats were worshiped in Egypt. In fact many cultures have had animals in their creation theologies.


If it is so important to you to think this....go ahead and think it.

BOTTOM LINE: The answer to the question "ARE THERE GODS INVOLVED IN THE NATURE OF EXISTENCE OR ARE THERE NO GODS?"...

...for me is: I do not know.

If it is different for you...terrific.

I know many people like you who apparently DO KNOW the answser...although I must admit that most of them KNOW a different answer from you.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 02:58 am
The popularity of a given theology or its lack thereof is not an argument in and of itself for its credence in this context and nor is its superficial plausibility or lack thereof in this context.

Frank, you will need to step up to plate with your open-mindedness / credence mindset and explain how you qualify and quantify a given set of theologies in this context if you wish to logically and rationally maintain your position.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 03:10 am
Chumly wrote:
The popularity of a given theology or its lack thereof is not an argument in and of itself for its credence in this context and nor is its superficial plausibility or lack thereof in this context.


I have not offered that as an argument. This is a strawman.


Quote:
Frank, you will need to step up to plate with your open-mindedness / credence mindset and explain how you qualify and quantify a given set of theologies in this context if you wish to logically and rationally maintain your position.


If I have to explain that I do not like all movies to the same extent...then we will never get anywhere.

My position is totally logical and rational. You seem to be illogically and irrationally dismissing it.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 04:27 am
Re: my "popularity of a given theology" argument. It's not a Straw Man fallacy, I am not ignoring your actual position, I am not substituting a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. I'm not claming nor inferring you made that argument. I'm simply forwarding a position that lacks merit as discussed with Snood and of which I am bringing forward in the context of my original posts. I am doing so for the sake of interest and congruence; whether you wish to discuss this argument or ignore it, it's entirely up to you.

Further I am not asking you to explain why you "do not like all movies to the same extent". Also it needs to be understood that unless or until you successfully argue that movies can be analogous to theologies you have provided only the logical fallacy known as the Weak Analogy.

I am not "illogically and irrationally dismissing"; I again pose to you: "In essence, where is your argument / evidence to demonstrate one theology deserves more credence in this context than other? You have provided none. I know of none. Unless or until such argument / evidence is forthcoming it can only be argued that all theologies have equal credence in this context."
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 09:54 am
Chumly wrote:
Re: my "popularity of a given theology" argument. It's not a Straw Man fallacy, I am not ignoring your actual position, I am not substituting a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. I'm not claming nor inferring you made that argument. I'm simply forwarding a position that lacks merit as discussed with Snood and of which I am bringing forward in the context of my original posts. I am doing so for the sake of interest and congruence; whether you wish to discuss this argument or ignore it, it's entirely up to you.


Actually, you are...but I doubt you will acknowledge that you are.


Quote:

Further I am not asking you to explain why you "do not like all movies to the same extent". Also it needs to be understood that unless or until you successfully argue that movies can be analogous to theologies you have provided only the logical fallacy known as the Weak Analogy.


You are asking something analogous to it.


Quote:
I am not "illogically and irrationally dismissing"; I again pose to you: "In essence, where is your argument / evidence to demonstrate one theology deserves more credence in this context than other?


Why on earth should I have to present such an argument?

Who are you to suggest that because I suggest it is possible there is a god or gods...that I should give all "theologies" equal credence...including some silly nonsense that atheists dream up whenever they recognize the inherent philosophical superiority of agnosticism to their philosophy?


Quote:
You have provided none. I know of none. Unless or until such argument / evidence is forthcoming it can only be argued that all theologies have equal credence in this context."


That is absoluely absurd...but if it makes you happy...(or more comfortable with your atheism)...by all means continue to delude yourself.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 10:12 am
Chumly wrote:
What makes the Dog Blink Universe theology (for example) to be less merited than a more popular theology? Nothing that I can see. . .
What you seem to be doing, Chumly, old chum, is flooding the garden. Proposition 1: Either God exists or he does not. You seem to be saying the addition of other possible 'beliefs' somehow changes the probabilities.

I'm saying that, if God exists, his very existence trumps the smorgasbord of dog blinking spaghetti monsters you have proffered.
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megamanXplosion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 01:24 pm
"The System of Nature, Vol. 1," by Baron D'Holbach, is a great read about the inherent nonsense of spirituality.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 03:44 pm
Just because Holbach proclaims that there is no such thing as supernatural or spiritual, that politics begat mythology begat theology and that man became alienated from nature because of this - doesn't make it so.
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megamanXplosion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 05:27 pm
No, it doesn't. The topic starter asked for opinions, not facts.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 05:30 pm
...and you're saying your opinion is the same as Holbach's, I take it - that spirituality is silly?
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 05:33 pm
I think milking cows is silly. But I still enjoy a glass of milk...
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megamanXplosion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jun, 2006 07:35 pm
snood wrote:
...and you're saying your opinion is the same as Holbach's, I take it - that spirituality is silly?


If you mean "spirituality" as somehow coming to terms with the "animating force of the body" or something along those lines: yes.

If you mean spirituality in some wishy-washy way like being inspired to paint after one sees an aurora borealis: no.
0 Replies
 
 

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