A life without spirituality.

I'm guessing here but maybe this wider idea of spirituality that escapes the paranormal stuff and connects more with what some are saying in this thread is an experience, that somehow allows us to connect with ourselves a little more, an experience that re-enforces the self maybe. Be that through a sense of comfort in your place in the world or something that makes you think or more accurately feel something deep about yourself.

I think spirituality harps back to peace and harmony between this idea of self and surroundings which Cyracuz summed up superbly for me...

Cyracuz wrote:

What you believe is not the most important thing. It is where your beliefs take you that is important.

As I see it the point of any religious or spiritual quest or creed is to live well and happily. To find the balance in existence where you can be at peace and bloom. The personality and experience of each individual will determine where that balance is, and the spiritual aim is for me to move and shift along with this balance as it unfolds in the form of my day to day existence.

(I didn't post in the beliefs topic, I had too much fun reading through it, but this ^ is it for me, balance in existence)

...so these experiences that closely connect with "us", are almost pearls of wisdom that will allow us to more freely live at peace with the world, after all, if you don't understand yourself, how can you hope to understand the world and indeed, flourish within it.

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I haven't seen anything in this thread which defines spirituality for me in a way which makes any sense to me. Much of what has been referred to as spirituality seems to me to be merely intellectual rationalization. What we cannot explain adequately in words, that about our feelings for the world around us and those with whom we inhabit that world which remains ineffable, we describe as the spiritual.

Long ago, having abandoned religion--community or personal religion--i long believed that people have a spiritual nature. I no longer believe it. I believe that people believe they have a spiritual nature, but i just ascribe that to their inability to express what are for them ineffable internal sensations.

So, i'd say i live my life without spiritualism.

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...and not only that, you say that everyone else does, too.

But you don't rule out the possibility that there are things beyond your grasp?

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I rule out the possibility of non-naturalistic explanations. That i don't comprehend something is not good reason to succumb to poofism.

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Quote:

But you don't rule out the possibility that there are things beyond your grasp?

Snood- Of course there are. There are also many non-spiritual concepts that are beyond the grasp of most people.

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I agree with Phoenix... One issue that is beyond anybody's grasp, for example, is situate (supposedly so) between my legs and... oh wait, wrong thread.

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Setanta wrote:

I rule out the possibility of non-naturalistic explanations. That i don't comprehend something is not good reason to succumb to poofism.

...an unnecessary swipe, IMO. You could have refrained from calling belief in supernatural things "poofism". It's the same IMO as if I called non-belief "self-centered shallowness" - but that's a value judgement, as is "poofism". Why is this necessary Setanta? You rightfully called it "non-naturalistic" - why is it necessary to append a jeer?

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Quote:
But you don't rule out the possibility that there are things beyond your grasp?

Snood- Of course there are. There are also many non-spiritual concepts that are beyond the grasp of most people.

Could be!~

But to rule out "the possibility of non-naturalistic explanations"...as Set does...is as absurd as insisting that there ARE non-naturalistic explanations for some things.

We really don't know...but "to rule out the possiblilty" is to close one's mind.

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How silly you always are Frank . . . so eager to congratulate yourself on your superior understanding. As i have no base line upon which to refer a non-naturalistic explanation, i don't give any consideration to that upon which i am unable to form a reasonable judgment. I have no understanding of quantum mechanics, and therefore, i make no attempt to judge the validity of any claim with reference to quantum mechanics. That is not closing one's mind, it is a pragmatic realization of one's limitations. Get a clue, Frank.

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Setanta wrote:

How silly you always are Frank . . . so eager to congratulate yourself on your superior understanding. As i have no base line upon which to refer a non-naturalistic explanation, i don't give any consideration to that upon which i am unable to form a reasonable judgment. I have no understanding of quantum mechanics, and therefore, i make no attempt to judge the validity of any claim with reference to quantum mechanics. That is not closing one's mind, it is a pragmatic realization of one's limitations. Get a clue, Frank.

Try learning not to be a jack-ass, Set. I will not be easy for you...but give it a shot.

You are ruling out something that cannot be ruled out...and you don't like it because I'm calling it to your attention.

Tough!

If you want to have a pragmatic realization of your limitations, Set...you should be agreeing with me....rather than doing your usual nonsense.

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In keeping with my policy in such matters, i am informing you that i have reported your post.

I rule out non-naturalistic explanations for myself, because i have no means of judging their validity. I don't rule them out for you or anyone else. If that is a problem for you, it certainly is not a problem for me.

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In all fairness - it is a little clearer when you say "for myself".

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Let's not get this thread locked.

Openmindedness is key. If something is beyond the realm of your own personal comprehension, no need to ridicule it. The unexplainable is not all that threatening, is it?

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woof woof arrrrroooooohhhhhh!!!!!!!!

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Setanta wrote:

In keeping with my policy in such matters, i am informing you that i have reported your post.

Well if I were a little girly punk...I might report your post calling me silly...but I am not a little girly punk...and nearly as I can tell, only a little girly punk would resort to crying for mommy in one of these fora.

Quote:

I rule out non-naturalistic explanations for myself, because i have no means of judging their validity. I don't rule them out for you or anyone else. If that is a problem for you, it certainly is not a problem for me.

You originally wrote that you "rule out the possibility of"....

...which of course is a far cry from this blather.

But I like a good rationalization...and attempt at evasion when I see it...and I thank you for it.

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Something might not be threatening to me personally, but the concept can be potentially dangerous for society. I consider religious imperatives as unacceptable for imposition on society precisely because they are outside the realm of explanation and testing. As for ridicule, i do ridicule ideas which are founded upon a desire to believe as opposed to a concrete reason to believe. I believe that most people will stop at a red traffic light, and my experience confirms it. Therefore, i act upon the belief that it will be so, and take my chances with the idiots who might not. I cannot know they will, but it is a reasonable assumption. I see no such reasonable assumptions as being embodied in poofism.

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snood wrote:

woof woof arrrrroooooohhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Hey, Mr. Doggie-Style.

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Frank, you are truly hilarious. You speak of punks, and your childish attempts to insult, and thereby imflame those with whom you disagree, has all the hallmarks of a punk and a bully.

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I agree with Phoenix that we must be careful with our terms.

For example, to be conscious of "ourselves" at all is to some extent a "spiritual position" because it assumes a transcendent position of "self observation". Discussion of "belief" for me is a red herring in this since any "self -observation" is necessarily a selective conditioned viewpoint little different to "an organized belief system". An extension of this argument would imply that as "self interest" declines "holistic spirituality" increases.

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Setanta wrote:

Frank, you are truly hilarious. You speak of punks, and your childish attempts to insult, and thereby imflame those with whom you disagree, has all the hallmarks of a punk and a bully.

Nah.

If you wanna see punk and bully...look in mirror.

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A life without spirituality.

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