7
   

Vanishing Languages

 
 
Letty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 12:54 pm
@ehBeth,
WOW! Bethie you just brought a dead language back to life. (perhaps I should have said "dead thread"). Thanks, gal.

Did my homework, however, and found that there is an offshoot of one of the romance languages called Catalan. Here is a lovely melody from that era.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueviSSTimHw&feature=related

I once told Setanta that I still remembered how to decline a noun. You'll have to ask him what he said.

Razz

Doctors used to have to write their RX's in Latin as well.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 01:44 pm
@Letty,
Catalan actually isn't really a vanishing language: it's the official language of Andorra, and the co-official language in the province of Catalonia as well as in in a couple other regions in Spain Smile . (And in two of the Spanish clubs here in my hometown Very Happy )
Letty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 02:01 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
oops, Walter, back to my homework. Thanks for the info, however. Wink Here is where I checked out that variety of Spanish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages
Merry Andrew
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 04:26 pm
@Letty,
There's also a distinct dialect of Italian, itself a variety of Latin, spoken in southern Switzerland. It's called Romanshe (sp.?).
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:46 pm
Letty wrote:

Here is where I checked out that variety of Spanish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages


Letty, any Catalan would kill you for that phrase. They'd say -and be right- that Catalan is a language by its own merit, with a healthy literature.

Catalan, vanishing??????
It's freaking forbidden to speak Spanish in public Catalonian schools!
That's worse than in the USA.
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 08:04 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Catalan: it's the official language of Andorra, and the co-official language in the province of Catalonia


A Catalan would kill you for that, Walter. Catalonia is not a province, but an autonomous region. Barcelona, Lleida, Girona, etc are provinces of Catalunya.

The Statute of 2006 states that "the proper language of Catalonia is Catalan" and "as such, Catalan is the language of normal and preferent usage in public administration and public media in Catalonia... it is also the language used for learning in schools".

In Catalonia they the Spanish language is not called "español" or "espanyol" (in Catalan), but "castellano" (castillian)... a dialect from Spain's central regions which happens to be spoken by 500 million other people.
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 08:09 pm
The Catalan language is the center of Catalonia's identity. It was fiercely attacked by the Fascist and centralist Franco regime, which nourished Catalonian's resentment for decades. Catalonians had to whisper at home their own language.
The result was a boomerang... and Catalan is booming for decades now, while Spanish is being repressed in that Autonomous Region -but certainly never to the levels Catalan was in Spain's dark era.


As for Latin, heck, it's alive & well even in a2k fantasy sports trash talk, Pediludium Georgios Excelsis dixit.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 11:40 pm
@fbaezer,
Your right, fb, and I really should know.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 11:41 pm
@Merry Andrew,
Merry Andrew wrote:

There's also a distinct dialect of Italian, itself a variety of Latin, spoken in southern Switzerland. It's called Romanshe (sp.?).

Romansh is one of the four official languages of Switzerland - and one of the Rhaeto-Romance languages which descended from the (Vulgar) Latin.
0 Replies
 
Letty
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2008 08:55 am
@fbaezer,
er, should I get a bullet proof vest, fbaezer? I didn't say that Catalan was vanishing, but just a branch of Spanish. It is, no"
Here is what I said:

Did my homework, however, and found that there is an offshoot of one of the romance languages called Catalan. Here is a lovely melody from that era.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueviSSTimHw&feature=related

I am not about to spar with you, however, 'cause you be the master. Razz
Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 04:54 am
Wow! I'm bumping this up because I was going to be funny and say that "igpay attinlay" was a vanishing language. What a surprise to find out that the origin goes back to Shakespeare and Poe:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2163/whats-the-origin-of-pig-latin

0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2008 10:04 am
@Merry Andrew,
Maureen Dowd has something to say

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/opinion/12dowd.html wrote:
Are We Rome? Tu Betchus!


Quote:
Bellum Gallium

Manes Julii Caesaris paucis diebus aderant " “O, most bloody sight!” " cum Ioannes McCainus, mavericus et veteranus captivusque Belli Francoindosinini, et Sara Palina, barracuda borealis, qui sneerare amant Baracum Obamam causa oratorii, pillorant ut demagogi veri, Africanum-Americanum senatorem Terrae Lincolni, ad Republicanas rallias.

Rabidi subcanes candidati, pretendant “no orator as Brutis is,” ut “stir men’s blood” et disturbant mentes populi ad “a sudden flood of mutiny,” ut Wilhelmus Shakespearus scripsit.


Cum Quirites Americani ad rallias Republicanas audiunt nomen Baraci Husseini Obamae, clamant “Mortem!” “Amator terroris!” “Socialiste!” “Bomba Obamam!” “Obama est Arabus!” “Caput excidi!” tempus sit rabble-rouseribus desistere “Smear Talk Express,” ut Stephanus Colbertus dixit. Obama demonatus est tamquam Musulmanus-Manchurianus candidatus " civis “collo-cerviciliaris” ad ralliam Floridianam Palinae exhabet mascum Obamae ut Luciferis.

Obama non queretur high-tech lynching. Sed secreto-serventes agentes nervosissmi sunt.

Vix quisque audivit nomen “Palinae” ante lunibus paucis. Surgivit ex suo tanning bed ad silvas in Terram Eskimorum, rogans quis sit traitorosus, ominosus, scurrilosus, periculosus amator LXs terroris criminalisque Chicagoani? Tu betchus!

“Caeca ambitio Obamana,” novum rumorem Palina McCainusque dixit. “Cum utilis, Obama laborat cum amatore terroris Wilhelmo Ayro. Cum putatus, perjuravit.” McCainianus bossus maximus Francus Keatinx vocat Obamam, “plebeium,” et ut iuvenum snifferendum cocaini minimi (“a little blow.”)

Cum Primus Dudus, spousus Palinanus, culpari attemptaret “Centurionem-Gate,” judices Terrae Santae Elvorumque castigat gubernatricem Palinam de abusu auctoritatis per familiam revengendum.

Tamen Sara et Ioannes bury Obama, not praise him. Maverici, ut capiunt auxilium de friga-domina, hench-femina, Cynthia McCaina Birrabaronessa, (quae culpat Obamam periculandi suum filum in Babylonia), brazen-iter distractant mentes populares de minimissimis IV 0 I K.ibus, deminutione “Motorum Omnium,” et Depressione Magna II.0. Omnes de Georgio Busio Secundo colossale goofballo. “V” (because there’s no W. in Latin) etiam duxit per disastrum ad gymnasium.

Gubernatrix (prope Russia) Palina, spectans candidaciam MMXII, post multam educationem cum Kissingro et post multam parodiam de Sabbatis Nocte Vivo atque de Tina Feia, ferociter vituperat Obamam, ut supralupocidit (aerial shooting of wolves) in Hyperborea.

Vilmingtoni, in Ohionem, McCain’s Mean Girl (Ferox Puella) defendit se gladiatricem politicam esse: “Pauci dicant, O Jupiter, te negativam esse. Non, negativa non sum, sed verissima.” Talk about lipsticka in porcam! Quasi Leeus Atwater de oppugnatione Busii Primi ad Dukakem: “non negativus, sed comparativus.”
[/size]
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 12:57 am
@Letty,
Letty wrote:

er, should I get a bullet proof vest, fbaezer? I didn't say that Catalan was vanishing, but just a branch of Spanish.


I am not Catalan, I think Catalans go way too far in defending their language, and I don't mind if somebody says it's a branch of Spanish or a dialect. But, I repeat, I am not Catalan and don't think my national pride resides in how my language is considered. Many Catalans do.

So, if you go to Barcelona and say that Catalan is a branch of Spanish, do wear a bullet proof vest.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 01:06 am
@fbaezer,
Topping that with mayonnaise (a Minorcan invention from the city of Mahon) ... Wink
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 01:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The first time I went to Barcelona, I noticed that some people who were somewhat rude to me in the first few seconds, became very kind, and even charming, as soon as they noticed, because of my accent or word-usage, that I was not Castillian, but Mexican. One guy even apollogized.
The second time, it was the Olympics, and they were kind to everybody.
Letty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 06:20 am
@fbaezer,
fbaezer, I became fascinated with Mexico when Bud and I became friends with a Mexican who called himself Dan Lucas. When I found out that his Hispanic name was Santa Tomas E Lucas, I was dumbfounded. It's the sound of the language that is important to me. Dan was a musician and a colleague in broadcasting. He always felt the sting of isolation while living in San Diego.

Having been the only member of my family to leave Virginia and live in Florida, discovery of different cultures is fascinating to me.

I spent most of the morning trying to find English words derived from Catalan so that I could identify. Although the web cited such, there wasn't one that I could find.

When I realized that Columbus was as mysterious as Shakespeare, I quit. Now I think I understand why the Mexican muralist who did "Still Born Knowledge" got it right.

Grey is often misquoted with this line:

"WHERE ignorance is bliss, til folly to be wise."
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:11 pm
@Letty,
Letty wrote:

I spent most of the morning trying to find English words derived from Catalan so that I could identify. Although the web cited such, there wasn't one that I could find.

Allioli, aubergine, apricot, barracks, groggy, mayonnaise, mizzen, spinach, tilde ...
Letty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Thanks, Walter. Those are quite common, too. This must be Eureka day as I have found the mural that I have been seeking for eons. Unfortunately, I cannot post it because it doesn't have the proper properties. I will try to find one that does. The mural is the one to which I referred earlier, "Stillborn Knowledge", and it is by the muralist, Orozco.





Letty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:34 pm
@Letty,
Here it is, Letty:

http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/history/lavender/graphics/orozco.jpg
fbaezer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Oct, 2008 02:37 pm
@Letty,
I knew this panel as "Dioses del Mundo Moderno" (Gods of the Modern World).
 

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