1
   

My predictions on Iraq

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 02:54 pm
Good for her! I'd do the same if I received any communication from you - if I were in her shoes.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 03:00 pm
So, just like her (and Hillary), you'd ignore your constituents and "do what is best" IYO.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 03:01 pm
I thought that was the President's MO. At least, that's what he's always saying.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 03:03 pm
That is the presidents job, making unpopular decisions, not the job of a senator. You knew that, didn't you?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 03:04 pm
No, I didn't. But now I"ll look for that part of the oath.

I, state your name, do solemnly swear to make unpopular decisions.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 03:13 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Craven, why did you predict the WMD's wouldn't be found?


My first clue was the "product rollout" powerpoint. If a war has to have a product rollout campaign with an eye on the timing for CONSUMERS, rather than say the weather in the country being attacked or timing for getting our troops properly outfitted, I call that a pretty clear indication there's some stretching of truth going on.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 03:36 pm
Thanks for getting back on topic Squinney.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 03:42 pm
cjh seems to imply that senators don't make decisions for this country. How ignorant!
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 03:49 pm
Whatever decision they make, it takes at least a simple majority to do so.
0 Replies
 
sunlover
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 03:56 pm
Good predictions from Craven, but I thought at the time and still do think that the WMD's were well hidden, maybe still are.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 08:30 pm
This is in today's Australian newspaper. It is written by a former foreign Minister of Australia who was also our governor-general for a time.



Quote:
Bill Hayden: Only way out for US

25aug05

THE Bush administration's Iraq policy has led to a disaster. Far from becoming a secular, liberal, democratic state, Iraq will almost certainly turn into a narrow, stifling Shia theocracy. It will be characterised by a harsh intolerance of nonconformity, by discrimination against other religions, sects and minorities, and by the repression of women.

Moreover, it appears increasingly likely that Iran, not the US, will be the master external draftsman of Iraq's future. At least that seems to be what Tehran expects. Following Iraq's elections in January, a regional head of Iran's intelligence service applauded the result: "The people we [Iran] supported are in power." Talk about unintended consequences.

There is general agreement that the US needs an exit policy. But it is difficult to conceive of one that is practical and will at the same time save face for Washington. Far from a grassroots democracy in the heart of the Middle East that George W. Bush envisaged two or three years ago, the likely consequence of Iraq's "liberation" will be a fragmented, warring and unstable region.

It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Bush and his neo-conservative colleagues, guided by zealotry and refusing to heed the lessons offered by the region's history, resolutely set their minds against the well-informed advice that they are likely to have received from State Department officials. Iraq, after all, is hardly a coherent state with a shared national identity. It was artificially created following World War I when the victorious European powers set up new states by drawing neat lines on maps, with little consideration for ethnic, religious or tribal affiliations.

Britain and France divided up the region according to notions of how their national aspirations would best be served, rather than on the basis of what was right, practical and desirable for the people of the region. The European powers treated the inhabitants of their colonies with disdain, so it is hardly surprising that the aspirations of Iraqis were deemed unworthy of attention, let alone respect.

Iraq proved to be a troublesome colony for Britain throughout the 1920s. The RAF had to be strategically stationed in the country on a long-term basis, at enormous cost, to subdue insurgents. Winston Churchill was Britain's colonial secretary at the time, and a recent book on his role in creating Iraq is titled Winston's Folly.

In the early 21st century, it would be equally apt to describe Iraq as Bush's blunder. If the US were to cut its losses and end its military presence, the consequences would be awful. US prestige and its international influence would be seriously impaired (a result that could have adverse consequences for Australia). The Iraqi army and its police force are in no condition to take over from US forces, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

There is no realistic solution, although there is the UN route. But leading members of the UN have been savaged by the US administration, its camp followers and the now diminishing hordes of neo-con commentators for refusing to rubber-stamp a US foreign policy blunder.

If only the US administration had waited a little longer and allowed the UN weapons inspectors to complete their task, it would have been possible to demonstrate that Iraq possessed no weapons of mass destruction, that its nuclear ambitions had been contained, and that the other excuses cited for invading it were equally groundless. That way, the US may have been spared the consequences of its leaders' ideological excitability.

The UN route may be difficult to negotiate, not because of the contempt shown for the organisation by the US and its allies, but because the mess in Iraq is so hard to fix.

Forget about democracy; not all peoples in the world want democracy or are capable of sustaining that method of governance. What about different regions? US president Woodrow Wilson wanted to create a Kurdish state after World WarI, but ill health and domestic politics kept him from pursuing that task. Before there is a Kurdistan, there will be a lot of bickering within Iraq, plus the involvement of neighbours such as Turkey, Syria and Iran. To leave this loose end untied will, like so many loose ends left dangling after 1922, provide the wick for an explosion at some later juncture. But it's a daunting prospect.

Imagine the paradox. President George Herbert Bush curtailed the war against Iraq in 1991 to prevent Iran from exercising greater influence, only to have his son turn Iraq into a gift horse for the mullahs in Tehran.

Meanwhile, there is the unfinished business of Afghanistan. The Taliban may have been forced to retreat in late 2001, but the country is effectively a narco-state and the Taliban are re-asserting themselves. The Government's writ diminishes rapidly beyond Kabul and is non-existent in many parts of the impoverished country.

That is where the war against the roots of terror properly started and and that is where it should have remained concentrated. Instead, the US and its allies misguidedly shuffled off to Iraq. If the way out of this mess is through the UN process, the US will have to speedily and skilfully restore its international leadership through diplomacy. That could lead to a vast improvement in the global order.

Bill Hayden is a former foreign minister, Labor leader and governor-general.



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16372321%255E7583,00.html
Quote:
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2005 08:32 pm
cjhsa wrote:
I'll be willing to predict that Craven's response will be well thought out and complete. Not just a shrug and eye roll that is typical of our anti-american bretheren.


"anti-american"?

Hey, takes one to know one, bub.

Edit (Moderator): While removing some posts from the "My Predictions on Iraq" thread, a mistake was made and extra posts were removed. There is no way to recombine the threads, so a new thread contains the extra posts.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=58240

Our apologies for the confusion.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 02/07/2025 at 02:37:54