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Civilians Death Rate in Iraq Less Than in Washington, DC

 
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2006 04:58 pm
"Are you telling us it is just as safe for US military personnel in Bahgdad as it would be for them in DC?" hahaha. Was he? He tried.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2006 05:02 pm
dyslexia wrote:
As JustGiggles once posted "one million illegals cross the mexico/america border every month" which, of course was bullshit. Just numbers indeed.


You put your left foot across. You take your left foot back.
You do the border hokie pokie....


If they would stop playing that music at the border they wouldn't keep crossing back and forth so much.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2006 05:10 pm
That's what happens when you listen and believe all this conservative crap. This story is making the rounds of all the conservative websites.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2006 05:11 pm
Whatever happened to JustWonders, anyway? I haven't seen her around for some time.

Of course, things are looking up for the Republican party as the Democrats continue to shoot themselves in the corner that's about to be turned in Iraq!
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2006 05:12 pm
If all these conservatives think Iraq is so safe I'd like to see them all go over there and take a walk outside the Green Zone, unescorted. Lets see how long they last.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2006 05:15 pm
How Darwinian....
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 12:08 am
nimh wrote:
After all, someone might start arguing that you are now "slandering" Drewdad, otherwise ... ;-)

It already happened. You might have noticed that DrewDad accused me of excessive reasonablility. But I decided not to tell him how much this absurd accusation hurt my feelings. It's alright. Really. I'll let it pass for now. <sniff>
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 01:17 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
The fact that the two rates are even comparable would seem to belie the liberal picture of civilians dying left and right in Iraq.


As usual, Brandon is correct. Meanwhile, many continue page after page of making cute, snooty, snide remarks in regard to what Brandon has pointed out, which does not negate the validity of his general argument, but merely demonstrates the vacuous opposition. The truth is that his point is valuable and pertinent in regard to more than a couple of aspects.

Without belaboring the argument of exactly what the numbers are, what matters is that it appears that we are talking roughly similar rates instead of radical differences by orders of magnitude between violent deaths in some American cities vs Iraq. Brandon indeed brings up a comparison that is worth recognizing and thinking about in terms of analyzing news and how news has affected the views of Americans in regard to Iraq. A few observations are in order.

First, we hear about Iraq every day in the national news, but hear little or nothing about violent deaths in American cities. Apparently, the deaths in American cities are acceptable as sort of expected normalcy. Can it be interpreted that those people in American cities don't matter as much? It could also mean there is little or nothing anybody thinks that could be done about it. Even though the deaths in Iraq are due to terrorists, suicide bombers, etc., it is considered to be somehow more surprising and unacceptable by the news media.

If you compare violent deaths in the cities of a supposedly peaceful country with that of a country still suffering from terrorists, suicide bombers, and pockets of opposition to the reconstruction of the country, how is it that the deaths in America are considered normal and those in Iraq are abnormal and cause for throwing up our hands in defeat? Nobody seems to even think the violent deaths in America are much of a problem, let alone seriously animated about a solution for it.

None of this takes away from the tragedy of terrorism and suicide bombers, but we do need to have some perspective of some comparisons, which is what Brandon attempted to do. Instead of not reporting the mayhem in Iraq, perhaps the news media needs to begin caring about and reporting other things as well, including any good news to balance things out a bit. And if you want to compare wars, this one is still pretty insignificant compared to some others.

I believe news reporting is now mostly emotionally based and has been watered down by removing the details surrounding the issues. The news becomes a series of sound bytes that contain nothing much of value except words and phrases designed to capture the attention and entertain the audience. It thus becomes almost worse than no information at all because it becomes misleading, incomplete, and inaccurate.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 01:23 am
xingu wrote:
If all these conservatives think Iraq is so safe I'd like to see them all go over there and take a walk outside the Green Zone, unescorted. Lets see how long they last.


And I wouldn't volunteer to make a habit of walking around at night in parts of D.C. either.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 04:00 am
Quote:
And I wouldn't volunteer to make a habit of walking around at night in parts of D.C. either.


You'd be safer in the bad parts of D.C. at night than outside the Green Zone in Baghdad in daylight.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 04:28 am
blueflame1 wrote:
"Are you telling us it is just as safe for US military personnel in Bahgdad as it would be for them in DC?" hahaha. Was he? He tried.

Have you even the article? It refers only to civilian death rates per capita.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 04:30 am
xingu wrote:
If all these conservatives think Iraq is so safe I'd like to see them all go over there and take a walk outside the Green Zone, unescorted. Lets see how long they last.

Your post does nothing to alter the figures regarding civilian death rates. Do you ever simply debate the actual topic?
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 06:17 am
The only point you've made is what complete sh!tholes many US cities are!
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 06:27 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
"Are you telling us it is just as safe for US military personnel in Bahgdad as it would be for them in DC?" hahaha. Was he? He tried.

Have you even the article? It refers only to civilian death rates per capita.

But it is comparable to the military deaths in Iraq. it's only 300% more than the Iraqi civilian deaths which is only 300% more than the DC murder rate.

If something it comparable at 300% then it is comparable at 300%. You can't have it both ways Brandon. If you want to state that the rate of civilian deaths at 300% of the rate in DC is comparable then you have to accept that the military rate at 300% of Iraqi civilians is comparable.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 06:31 am
parados wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
"Are you telling us it is just as safe for US military personnel in Bahgdad as it would be for them in DC?" hahaha. Was he? He tried.

Have you even the article? It refers only to civilian death rates per capita.

But it is comparable to the military deaths in Iraq. it's only 300% more than the Iraqi civilian deaths which is only 300% more than the DC murder rate.

If something it comparable at 300% then it is comparable at 300%. You can't have it both ways Brandon. If you want to state that the rate of civilian deaths at 300% of the rate in DC is comparable then you have to accept that the military rate at 300% of Iraqi civilians is comparable.

So, according to your argument, it would also be true that if I call prices of $10 and $15 comparable, then I have to say that prices of $10 and $5,000 are comparable. Brilliant.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 06:35 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
xingu wrote:
If all these conservatives think Iraq is so safe I'd like to see them all go over there and take a walk outside the Green Zone, unescorted. Lets see how long they last.

Your post does nothing to alter the figures regarding civilian death rates. Do you ever simply debate the actual topic?

And again, Brandon cherrypicks what he answers to, actively ignoring the substantive rebuttals to his assertions while actually grandstanding to other commenters about caring to "debate the actual topic". What chutzpah.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 06:39 am
okie wrote:
Without belaboring the argument of exactly what the numbers are, what matters is that it appears that we are talking roughly similar rates...

If the numbers are inaccurate, then one can hardly say that the rates are roughly similar. The rate of what? The two numbers measure different things.

okie wrote:
I believe news reporting is now mostly emotionally based and has been watered down by removing the details surrounding the issues. The news becomes a series of sound bytes that contain nothing much of value except words and phrases designed to capture the attention and entertain the audience. It thus becomes almost worse than no information at all because it becomes misleading, incomplete, and inaccurate.

That might actually make an interesting thread. Personally, I think what gets reported in the media is slanted heavily toward what people want to read (and buy).
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 06:43 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
parados wrote:
But it is comparable to the military deaths in Iraq. it's only 300% more than the Iraqi civilian deaths which is only 300% more than the DC murder rate.

If something it comparable at 300% then it is comparable at 300%. You can't have it both ways Brandon. If you want to state that the rate of civilian deaths at 300% of the rate in DC is comparable then you have to accept that the military rate at 300% of Iraqi civilians is comparable.

So, according to your argument, it would also be true that if I call prices of $10 and $15 comparable, then I have to say that prices of $10 and $5,000 are comparable. Brilliant.

Huh?

You say that the rate of civilian deaths in Iraq is "in the same neighbourhood" and "comparable" to that in Washington, DC.

You have by now been shown that, in reality, it is about three times as high: ie, 300% the number.

The number of military casualties, in turn, is about 300% that of the civilian rate. So if you claim that a step of 300% difference still keeps somthing "in the same neighbourhood" and "comparable", then so is that rate.

OK?

So, let's rephrase your answer to Parados so it is actually a correct representation of what was said.

You call prices of of $40 and $120 "comparable". Well, if that is comparable, Parados says, then so is $360. One number is 3 times as big as the other number, in both cases.

In reality, of course, $40 and $120 (the actual numbers would be 36 (deaths per 100,000 )and 128, see here), are not "in the same neighbourhood" at all - just like $120 and $360 aren't.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 06:44 am
bm, this is a joke right?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 06:45 am
nimh wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
xingu wrote:
If all these conservatives think Iraq is so safe I'd like to see them all go over there and take a walk outside the Green Zone, unescorted. Lets see how long they last.

Your post does nothing to alter the figures regarding civilian death rates. Do you ever simply debate the actual topic?

And again, Brandon cherrypicks what he answers to, actively ignoring the substantive rebuttals to his assertions while actually grandstanding to other commenters about caring to "debate the actual topic". What chutzpah.

I'd say "what a schlemiel." Chutzpah implies that he actually has some stones.
0 Replies
 
 

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