Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:29 pm
You are right to a point, Chumly. However, when dealing with the fanatical elements, all one can learn is the extent to which a particular individual is fanatical against religion. Science doesn't even enter into the equation. Subjective discussion doesn't have a chance.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:30 pm
Setanta Wrote:

Quote:
I have never made a secret of my contempt for the religiously fanatical. As far as "agreeing" not to respond to the drivel with which you typically clog this web site, you can forget that. As i've pointed out before, i have the right, and will exercise the right, to respond to any post i see. That you call me childish is meaningless to me--i have absolutely no respect for you or your opinions based upon an ignorant adherence to a narrow view of religion and society. I consider you a homophobe and a liar, as well as a dangerous religious fanatic. If you don't like reading my posts, don't read them. Don't expect that you can bully me into no responding to the sh!t you post here, though.


Actually, I would consider those that will not open their minds up to a higher being are the ones that are close-minded. No one asked you to accept it but I am going to state my beliefs as long and as often as I want to as long as I do not break the Terms of Service.

Have a nice day, Setanta. I must go out now and do something really dangerous. Let's see, what shall it be today? Tell people about Jesus? Help a needy person? Feed someone that has no food? Encourage a soldier? Yes, dangerous indeed. Rolling Eyes

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:31 pm
Typical hogwash, Bill--what scientific discussion do you allege would be subjective? What value do you assert would be derived from discussing religion "subjectively." In fact, your false and silly accusations about my attitudes strongly suggests that you accuse me of subjective prejudice--so, as usual, you make little to no sense. I've always pointed out that my beef is with the religiously fanatical, because their adherence to a canon means that their minds are closed. This is definitely as case of "if the shoe fits," Bill.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:33 pm
I don't know about you, Intrepid, but my shoes fit quite comfortably. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:33 pm
Typical drivel, MOAN. What is closed minded is the assertion that there is a god, and that anyone who does not agree has a closed mind. What is dangerous about the likes of you is your desire to impose your beliefs, such as your disgust with homosexuality, upon society. I haven't the least doubt that you are dangerous on that basis, all the lies about how you might vote notwithstanding.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:34 pm
I accuse Setanta of nothing. What is the expression? The proof is in the pudding?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:34 pm
Setanta wrote:
Typical hogwash, Bill--what scientific discussion do you allege would be subjective? What value do you assert would be derived from discussing religion "subjectively." In fact, your false and silly accusations about my attitudes strongly suggests that you accuse me of subjective prejudice--so, as usual, you make little to no sense. I've always pointed out that my beef is with the religiously fanatical, because their adherence to a canon means that their minds are closed. This is definitely as case of "if the shoe fits," Bill.



Setanta - do you know what it was - was it some incident or just an epiphany about the harm done by fanatics - that made you so angry at them?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:35 pm
You routinely accuse me of being fanatically opposed to religion. I'm not. I'm only opposed to fanatics. Once again, Bill, if the shoe fits . . .
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:37 pm
Here be dragons.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:37 pm
How would Setanta know what I believe? Has he asked me? No. Does he care? No. How would he know what anyone believed. Does the fact that he does not believe make him superior? No. At what point did this thread get totally off topic?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:39 pm
Setanta Wrote:

Quote:
Typical drivel, MOAN. What is closed minded is the assertion that there is a god, and that anyone who does not agree has a closed mind. What is dangerous about the likes of you is your desire to impose your beliefs, such as your disgust with homosexuality, upon society. I haven't the least doubt that you are dangerous on that basis, all the lies about how you might vote notwithstanding.


My considering a non-believer closed minded is in no way different than you considering a believer closed minded. No harm. No foul.

What is also dangerous about the likes of you (if I may borrow your words here a second) is your desire to impose your beliefs, whatever they are, upon society.

Shall I also consider you dangerous because of your beliefs? Point the finger right back at ya' Buddy because there is no difference. We merely have opposing views. You, however, are just more aggressive about your views than I am. So what?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:40 pm
Intrepid wrote:
No complaint. Just pointing out the obvious. People can make their own conclusions and opinions.
Nevertheless no sane rational man would claim any and all conclusions and opinions have credence simply by the fact that "People can make their own conclusions and opinions".
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:41 pm
At the point at which you decided to make it a bitch-fight . . . something you and MOAN seem to love . . .

It is worth noting that Xingu's purpose was to discuss scripture and science--and that no single religious person here has been willing to tackle the specific points he brought up, apart from the first response, and Lash's response. I riffed off the first resonse with a silly post. I responded seriously to Lash's post, from which you took the opportunity to go into attack mode.

If it bothers you that the thread is off track, you need to complain to the man in the mirror, Bill.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:45 pm
Setanta wrote:
You routinely accuse me of being fanatically opposed to religion. I'm not. I'm only opposed to fanatics. Once again, Bill, if the shoe fits . . .



I'm just trying to get a fix on what you're angry at. So, I know you "oppose" people like Intrepid and M.A. and RealLife, who clearly believe Christianity is the only way to go. And now you're saying that you don't oppose religion. If I've accused you of anything, it had to be because of the intensity of the haymakers you throw (c'mon - you know you do). Sometimes I swear to God (no offense) Setanta, I'll look at a thread and I'll see you throwing blows left and right, while the object of your attention is writing post after submissive post, trying to lower the heat. sometimes it looks like you have no cause, but just to draw blood.

I admire your mind and erudition, I truly do. But it seems to me that there doesn't have to be a big fight all the time if no one wants it. I don't know if you respect my judgement at all, but sometimes it appears to me as if you really just want to fight.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:49 pm
MOAN wrote:
My considering a non-believer closed minded is in no way different than you considering a believer closed minded. No harm. No foul.


This is patently false. A believer of necessity cannot entertain ideas outside the received canon without commiting heresy. A non-believer is free to explore ideas inimical to the canon, and may well have decided to discard belief precisely because her open mind caused her to question the recieved canon. This is an attempt to equate belief and the rejection of belief. It is absolutely necessary to the weak position which the believer holds against rational criticism, but it is false, which is why it is weak.

Quote:
What is also dangerous about the likes of you (if I may borrow your words here a second) is your desire to impose your beliefs, whatever they are, upon society.
Quote:


That is also false. I do not seek to interfer in the behavior of other adults based upon adherence to superstitious belief. You do, as you have made abundantly clear from your hateful posts about homosexuals and homosexuality. I have no desire to impose on society, and accept the imposition of the social contract. In pursuance of that ethos, i oppose all attempts to relegate any adults to a special category of persons to be denied the full benefits of society--which is what you intend with your hatefulness toward homosexuals.


Quote:
Shall I also consider you dangerous because of your beliefs?


I don't give a rat's ass if you do.

Quote:
Point the finger right back at ya' Buddy because there is no difference.


I'm not your Buddy, what a disgusting thought. Please, i just ate lunch. THere is indeed a difference. I have no canon of belief which i believe society ought to adopt. I believe only in the maintenance of equity in society. Look the word up, learn something.

Quote:
We merely have opposing views.


Amond which is the view that you should be entitled to burden society with the results of your supersitious beliefs.

Quote:
You, however, are just more aggressive about your views than I am. So what?


That's a laugh. If you're less aggressive than i, why are you continuing to respond after promising for the umpteenth time that you would stop responding to me?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:50 pm
Setanta wrote:
I can go along with that to a point, Chumly. However, when dealing with the religiously fanatical, all one can learn is the extent to which a particular individual is fanatical. Unless one began knowing nothing about Chrisitianity or Islam, there is little to nothing to be learned from the fanatics at this site, who are often not as well informed about scripture and theology as those who criticize them.
Yeah, makes sense, I guess I should read more too.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 12:57 pm
snood wrote:
Setanta wrote:
You routinely accuse me of being fanatically opposed to religion. I'm not. I'm only opposed to fanatics. Once again, Bill, if the shoe fits . . .



I'm just trying to get a fix on what you're angry at.


I'm not angry. That is merely something which you project in your anger at what you see as my disrepect for your beliefs. So what? I am not obliged to respect your beliefs.

Quote:
So, I know you "oppose" people like Intrepid and M.A. and RealLife, who clearly believe Christianity is the only way to go.


No, you don't "know" that. I am opposed to the imposition of their belief sets on society. Intrepid is just an attack dog, he rarely if ever details his beliefs here. MOAN has learned not to do so, but plenty of evidence remains here from her early days to know of her hatred for homosexuality. I am opposed to that, just as i am opposed to "real life" retailing falsehoods about a theory of evolution. It is your warped point of view which twists that into hatred and personal opposition. I don't know any of them personally, and likely wouldn't want to.

Quote:
And now you're saying that you don't oppose religion.


I don't oppose religion, i oppose doctrinaire religious fanaticism.

Quote:
If I've accused you of anything, it had to be because of the intensity of the haymakers you throw (c'mon - you know you do).


People get out of me response equivalent to the drivel they post. If that bothers you, that's your problem, not mine. Look at the idiotic way you and Intrepid have followed me around in attempts to attack. You look pretty damned silly accusing me of attacks, given the hateful things you have posted about me, and quite recently, as a matter of fact.

Quote:
Sometimes I swear to God (no offense) Setanta, I'll look at a thread and I'll see you throwing blows left and right, while the object of your attention is writing post after submissive post, trying to lower the heat. sometimes it looks like you have no cause, but just to draw blood.


Nonsense. Look at MOAN's crap in this thread. She wants to lower the heat? Bullsh!t. She wants to get off a parting shot and then suggest that we ought not to respond to one another's posts. But she always wants to do it after attempting to impose her view of events on the thread. You have a damned subjective view of things here.

Quote:
I admire your mind and erudition, I truly do. But it seems to me that there doesn't have to be a big fight all the time if no one wants it. I don't know if you respect my judgement at all, but sometimes it appears to me as if you really just want to fight.


If you think there doesn't need to be a big fight, knock of the snotty, hateful comments you inject into my conversations with others. If you don't want to see such fights, address your remarks to MOAN and Bill.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 01:07 pm
Setanta Wrote:

Quote:
This is patently false. A believer of necessity cannot entertain ideas outside the received canon without commiting heresy. A non-believer is free to explore ideas inimical to the canon, and may well have decided to discard belief precisely because her open mind caused her to question the recieved canon. This is an attempt to equate belief and the rejection of belief. It is absolutely necessary to the weak position which the believer holds against rational criticism, but it is false, which is why it is weak.


Whatever. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
That is also false. I do not seek to interfer in the behavior of other adults based upon adherence to superstitious belief. You do, as you have made abundantly clear from your hateful posts about homosexuals and homosexuality. I have no desire to impose on society, and accept the imposition of the social contract. In pursuance of that ethos, i oppose all attempts to relegate any adults to a special category of persons to be denied the full benefits of society--which is what you intend with your hatefulness toward homosexuals.


Can you tell me that when you vote for something you do not vote your conscience, morals, and beliefs? Would you go against your morals, conscience, and beliefs qhwn you vote? I highly doubt it. If anyone is worth their salt they will vote for what they believe is right. Period.

Quote:
I'm not your Buddy, what a disgusting thought. Please, i just ate lunch. THere is indeed a difference. I have no canon of belief which i believe society ought to adopt. I believe only in the maintenance of equity in society. Look the word up, learn something.


It was a figure of speech and not an endearment I promise you. Oh really? You have no beliefs that you feel are right and society should adapt but may not necessarily do? We have equity, Setanta. It's called freedom of religion.

Perhaps you should look study a bit on our voting system. It's awesome! We all get to vote the way we think we should! Woo Hoo! :wink:


Quote:
Amond which is the view that you should be entitled to burden society with the results of your supersitious beliefs.


Ah yes, the old you are right and I am wrong statement. Highly predictable I must say.

Quote:
That's a laugh. If you're less aggressive than i, why are you continuing to respond after promising for the umpteenth time that you would stop responding to me?


Actually, what I said was that I was going to stop the childish behavior. I said nothing in this thread about not responding at all to your posts. And, yes, I have said I would before and I stopped for a time and I changed my mind. Big friggin Deal. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 01:13 pm
Setanta, let me ask you a question? Do you ever admit you are wrong? The last person on this earth that was perfect was crucified.

I've tried continuously with you to make amends and you still will have none of it. So, if you are going to be disrespectful to me and other believers merely because you disagree with us, then do not expect me to be your doormat Buddy.

I did not join this thread with the intent of doing battle with you. I asked Xingu a question and then I was joining in the conversation and you started with your ad hominem crap again. Build a bridge and get over it will you? Grow up! Rolling Eyes

Xingu, I apologize for derailing this thread. Is there anything in specific detail you wanted to discuss? If you will tell me what it is, I will attempt to do so. Again, I apologize.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 May, 2006 01:28 pm
Basically, the argument is not between religion and science; it is between obsolete science or even the ancient science of the Bible and modern science. Often religions weave their dogmas and myths around the science of the day then fail to upgrade them when scientific knowledge makes them obsolete.

A major problem arises when religions insist on taking their metaphorical symbols and myths literally. To these people philosopher Alan Watts suggested that they eat the menus in a restaurant rather than the food that the menus represent.
0 Replies
 
 

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