Bible vs. Science

Actually, that's not true. In 1492, people believed the Earth was a sphere. They only thought Columbus wouldn't make it to India, because they thought he miscalculated the circumfrence of the Earth, which he did. It was just lucky for him there was land in the way.

People knew the Earth was a sphere back in the Medieval Ages, when monks such as Roger Bacon did scientific experiments. They were, after all, the only ones with the time to do such experiments back in those days.

Sometimes I wonder if all of the "religious hierarchy" in the public sector aren't playing a group of people deliberately, because they are susceptible to believing almost anything. I doubt most of them are believers.

I had to give my outline of a persuasive speech to a class of the most conservative, sheltered people on the planet. It had to be something I cared about, so I vacillated between gay marriage and anti-Semitism. I really didn't want to be controversial, but I couldn't work up any interest in anything else.

I chose gay marriage, and they looked at me as if I'd murdered a child.

My points were unassailable. I was very patient and accepting of their arguments. Didn't feel aggressive at all.

Among their strongest points: God doesn't make mistakes. (So gay people choose to be gay.)

and God made man in his image,...so are you saying God's gay? It took everything I could do to keep a straight face. My professor and I were exchanging mock wide-eyed expressions.

Everyone in the class rejected my assertion that people are born homosexual....because if they accept that, it blows a big hole in their religion. I don't think it has to--but many of them do.

Same thing with the Big Bang theory. They fight information that threatens their religion. Almost as one unit. I've seen it up close. It's bizarre.

Unless you actually know what you are talking about you really should not post. Let me disprove this with one verse, that the bible shows the earth as a circle.

Isa 40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Nice little verse huh. Kind of blows holes in your flat earth junk.

Hopeful believers in the scientific wisdom found in the Bible ignore the verse above and point to a verse in Isaiah which they think shows that the Bible writers knew the earth was a sphere. They believe that the word "circle" could actually mean "sphere," since both are round, but they ignore Isaiah's use of a different word in another verse where he speaks of a "ball." Here are the two verses:

To whom then will ye liken God? ....It is he that sitteth upon the circle (chuwg) of the earth (Isaiah 40:18-23

He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a BALL (duwr) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. (Isaiah 22:18)

The Hebrew word used in scripture for "circle" in the verse above is chuwg. If the Bible writer had meant for us to believe that "circle of the earth" meant that the earth was round, the writer would have used the Hebrew word for "ball," which is duwr. The fact that Isaiah didn't use duwr shows that he wasn't trying to tell us the earth was like a ball.

Furthermore, there exists a simple interpretation of "circle of the earth" which does not imply a spherical earth. On a hill overlooking a wide expanse free of tall trees and other hills the horizon appears as a perfect circle, 360 degrees of blue sky. If Isaiah meant to tell us the earth was a globe, he would have used another word. A circle is not a ball, nor is a ball a circle. Everyone knew what a "circle" was in those times; it meant the same then as it means today.

Other passages complete the picture of the sky as a lofty, physical dome. God "sits throned on the vaulted roof of earth [chuwg], whose inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the skies [shamayim] like a curtain, he spreads them out like a tent to live in...[Isaiah 40:22]."

Chuwg literally means "circle" or "encompassed." By extension, it can mean roundness, as in a rounded dome or vault. Job 22:14 says God "walks to and fro on the vault of heaven [chuwg]." In both verses, the use of chuwg implies a physical object, on which one can sit and walk.

Likewise, the context in both cases requires elevation. In Isaiah, the elevation causes the people below to look small as grasshoppers. In Job, God's eyes must penetrate the clouds to view the doings of humans below. Elevation is also implied by Job 22:12: "Surely God is at the zenith of the heavens [shamayim] and looks down on all the stars, high as they are."

Actually, it is not as bizarre as it might seem. Consider if you will that most people live their lives with their beliefs largely unexamined, and almost never challenged. Granddaddy was a Babdist, Daddy was a Babdist, it's good enough for me.

*****************************************************

Intrepid, its amazing that you sneer at people for being ignorant about Canada, and display such ignorance yourself. The Memorial Day holiday originated with the veterans of the American Civil War, and therefore, might be said to resemble in spirit "Remembrance Day." The American Civil War was the first great experience of the horror of war among Americans. The Great War was the first great experience of the horror of war by Canadians--hence the emphasis on "Remembrance Day." In terms of society alone, Memorial Day, just like Victoria Day, signals the official start of "the summer season," and so remains a popular holiday. What you call Remembrance Day used to be know as Armistice Day in teh United States, and was national holiday. Then it was renamed Veteran's Day, and ceased to be an official national holiday--thereby, ironically, showing once again how little Americans (or their politicians at least) actually value their veterans.

Americans pay lip-service to veterans and war dead on Memorial Day, but its more like Victoria Day--a long weeked after which all the parks and beaches open, and now women can wear white without being laughed at.

Setanta wrote:

Actually, it is not as bizarre as it might seem. Consider if you will that most people live their lives with their beliefs largely unexamined, and almost never challenged. Granddaddy was a Babdist, Daddy was a Babdist, it's good enough for me.

Yup, if your born in a Christian nation and a Christian culture chances are you will be a Christian. I wonder what Momma, Real, Rex and Scott would believe today if they were born in Saudi Arabia to Muslim parents. I wonder if they would look upon the Christian religion the same way they do now.

Everyone knows (expect, perhaps fanatics like MOAN who are totally wrapped up in Jeebus) that women do not wear white until after Memorial Day.

My grandfather was not religious, my father was not religious and neither were the rest of my family. I made a choice because that is what was right for me. I would think that Momma Angel, Real et all made their own decisions as well.

Quote:

My grandfather was not religious, my father was not religious and neither were the rest of my family. I made a choice because that is what was right for me. I would think that Momma Angel, Real et all made their own decisions as well.

That's true, they made their decisions. But if a religion is to be chosen then the religion of choice in a Christian nation would most likely be Christian and in a Muslim country Muslim.

My point is if one believes in body and soul and God is the one who puts our soul into a body then God does not discriminate. He doesn't care what your religious beliefs are or if you have any at all.

Setanta wrote:

Everyone knows (expect, perhaps fanatics like MOAN who are totally wrapped up in Jeebus) that women do not wear white until after Memorial Day.

Actually, your friends in Canada where white after Victoria Day. (emoticon removed in the interest of good taste)

Have a nice day (emoticon removed in the interest of good taste)

That's true, they made their decisions. But if a religion is to be chosen then the religion of choice in a Christian nation would most likely be Christian and in a Muslim country Muslim.

My point is if one believes in body and soul and God is the one who puts our soul into a body then God does not discriminate. He doesn't care what your religious beliefs are or if you have any at all.

As I said, I'm a deist. No, I don't think God cares what our religious beliefs are. If we are to elevate God to a higher plane then humans how can we believe that God will practice religious discrimination? If we consider people who practice religious discrimination as bad what does that make God?

This is the Oneness doctrine being preached which is not scripturally sound. I don't know why God wouldn't care what god you worshipped. There is one true God and many false gods. If you attribute God's creation, etc., to another god, of course He would care (discriminate). If you created something you wouldn't like anyone giving the credit to anyone else, would you? :wink:

If you can't elevate God to a higher plane than humans how could He be a God? He created everything. Humans cannot do that. Trying to form God into what you think He should be is a futile exercise in my opinion. A pot cannot change its creator anymore than a human can change theirs.

This is the Oneness doctrine being preached which is not scripturally sound. I don't know why God wouldn't care what god you worshipped. There is one true God and many false gods. If you attribute God's creation, etc., to another god, of course He would care (discriminate). If you created something you wouldn't like anyone giving the credit to anyone else, would you?

If you can't elevate God to a higher plane than humans how could He be a God?

He created everything. Humans cannot do that. Trying to form God into what you think He should be is a futile exercise in my opinion. A pot cannot change its creator anymore than a human can change theirs.

Perhaps the scriptures are wrong. Why should God care. If there is only one God why should God care if you credit creation to a God called Scalphunter or Boogieman. Is he vain? Is he egotistical? Is he proud? Is he insecure and in constant need of adulation? Giving credit to something that doesn't exist should not be something a perfect God would concern himself with.

Your last sentence shows you are trying to compare God with humans, which is what the authors of the Bible did. Your trying to make God like a human and in doing so you give him all the faults humans have. Now God is no longer a God of perfect love but a human-like deity embracing all the sins and weaknesses of humans.

You can't have a God on a higher plane then humans if you make God as sinful as humans. If discriminating against people because of their religious beliefs is wrong for us then it is wrong for God.

That's what the Bible does. It uses humans as a form and molds God to be human-like. Hence we see a God that kills babies, has temper tantrums, is jealous, wrathful and selfish. One should ask do I want to raise my children to be like this, like God of the Bible? Do I want to teach my kids that killing is the solution to all problems? That's what God does in the Bible.