Bartikus wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:
In any case, you can see that this was another attempt by early Christians to build up Jesus' image.
How do you know this?
Because they have never done anything different.
Arella Mae wrote:Bartikus Wrote:
Quote:If he saw the law as a piece of shyt and rejected it then why did he tell her to go and sin no more.
Good question.
You don't know that he did.
But even if he did...he could tell her to "go and sin no more" while still considering the law...or huge parts of it...to be a piece of shyt.
Frank Apisa wrote:Bartikus wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:
In any case, you can see that this was another attempt by early Christians to build up Jesus' image.
How do you know this?
I do not KNOW it...I am guessing, Bart.
I should have qualified my comment...and I thank you for pointing out the omission.
I think that the material upon which I base this particular guess is substantial and compelling...at least, to a non-Chrisitan.
Actually, I have found some of your arguments to be compelling and at the very least thought provoking.
Thank you.
Bartikus wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:Bartikus wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:
In any case, you can see that this was another attempt by early Christians to build up Jesus' image.
How do you know this?
I do not KNOW it...I am guessing, Bart.
I should have qualified my comment...and I thank you for pointing out the omission.
I think that the material upon which I base this particular guess is substantial and compelling...at least, to a non-Chrisitan.
Actually, I have found some of your arguments to be compelling and at the very least thought provoking.
Thank you.
Thank you, Bart.
This is a contentious area. Good to discuss it with you.
Arella Mae wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:You don't know that he did.
But even if he did...he could tell her to "go and sin no more" while still considering the law...or huge parts of it...to be a piece of shyt.
Ok, wait a minute. I am confused, Frank. You seem to be accepting some things of what Jesus did or said but not all?
I certainly hold many of the teachings imputed to Jesus to be honorable, intelligent, reasonable, compassionate, loving, understanding...and worthy of great respect.
Others...mainly the supposed worship of the demon god of the Bible...I do not.
Frank Apisa wrote:RexRed wrote:Unless Jesus himself caught this woman in the act he by Jewish law would require an eye witness or at least two who would testify against her in a trial.
The scribes and pharisees were tempting Jesus because it was against Roman law to stone people for adultery.
noyes he would have broken Roman law and if he had answered yes he would have broken Mosaic law.
Since no one as a direct result of this incident accused Jesus of breaking either law you have no case Frank.
Gimme a fukin' break, will ya, Rex.
YOU telling ME that I have no case?
You the dissembler extrordinaire of A2K? You the reviser?
The passage tells us the woman was caught in the act.
In any case, you can see that this was another attempt by early Christians to build up Jesus' image. Can you imagine a Jewish crowd...once roiled, regardless of the motives of the roilers...just walking away because none was sinless???
Aesop would have titled the last few sentences: MORAL.
Quote:
Comment:
Yet in doing so Jesus showed that the law of Moses was weak. An inner law of love was greater than both (Roman and Mosaic) laws.
It was more than "weak"...it was horseshyt.
Quote:Jesus fulfilled the law he did not "break" the law Frank.
Yeah...like the quote where the god decrees death for homosexual activities really means to "live and let live."
Jesus Christ...why do the Christians send their weakest people to argue their case in these fora?
Frank it only takes the weakest Christian to topple the strongest agnostic/atheist.
RexRed wrote: ... it only takes the weakest Christian to topple the strongest agnostic/atheist.
In the Christian's dreams, perhaps, but certainly not on the field of debate.
Can science uncreate existence?
RexRed wrote:Can science uncreate existence?
You define "existence" and I will give you a "scientific argument" to show how "no creator" is required.
fresco wrote:RexRed wrote:Can science uncreate existence?
You define "existence" and I will give you a "scientific argument" to show how "no creator" is required.
Can you scientifically prove an un-creator?
Two issues:
Proof......a "scientific" concept is not provable - only potentially falsifiable (Popper)
Creator......if this means "one who constructs by intention" then there is scientific evidence to show that complex constructions arise and disappear spontaneously in nature (Prigogine and Chaos Theory)
Overview:
The postulate of "a creator" solves nothing because it involves a infinite regress of explaining the origin of such. Scientifically. Occam's razor points to chaos theory as the most elegant and hence superior solution.
fresco wrote:Two issues:
Proof......a "scientific" concept is not provable - only potentially falsifiable (Popper)
Creator......if this means "one who constructs by intention" then there is scientific evidence to show that complex constructions arise and disappear spontaneously in nature (Prigogine and Chaos Theory)
Overview:
The postulate of "a creator" solves nothing because it involves a infinite regress of explaining the origin of such. Scientifically. Occam's razor points to chaos theory as the most elegant and hence superior solution.
Considering creation has lasted so long maybe they can disappear faster than they appear?
I would have to agree, to a certain extent, with the Christians regarding John 8. The teachers of the law and Pharisees were trying to determine how liberal Jesus was concerning the law. It was a trap. Jesus pardoned the sin of the woman and those who were trying to trap him. In John 8:12-27, right after the incident, Jesus spoke to the people and told them that he was the son of God and that his forgiveness was the wishes of God. In John 20:21-23 Jesus gave the discriples the power to forgive sins as he had been given. "Again Jesus said, 'Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.' And with that he breathed on them and said, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.'" I cannot see a contradiction here. It is only contradictory if it is taken out of context.
As for the recent discussion of creator, "uncreator," etc., it is irrelevant. This is not a God vs Science discussion, it is a Bible vs Science discussion. Someone bring up an event in the Bible that has the possibility of being tested to verify or falsify the claim. Speaking about anything else in this topic is pointless.
John
8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
8:13
The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
8:14
Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
8:15
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
8:16
And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
8:17
It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
8:18
I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
8:19
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
8:20
These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
8:21
Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
8:22
Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
8:25
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
8:26
I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
8:27
They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
RexRed wrote:Frank it only takes the weakest Christian to topple the strongest agnostic/atheist.
In your dreams, Rex. In your dreams and delusions.
Arella Mae wrote:Then I take it you think Jesus was doubleminded or something?
Is that like doublejointed???
