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Is flag-waving stupid and immature?

 
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 May, 2006 06:41 pm
"...U.S. lets hockey players skate to front of visa queue .
Immigration bill to give minor-league players major-league treatment ..."

U.S, senator susan collins - maine - has sponsored an amendment to the U.S. immigration bill that would give (canadian) minor league hockey players preferred status to enter the united states to play for a U.S. teams .

next time i'll cross the border i'll take along a hockey stick ; i'll probably get waived right through at the border (just kidding , never had any problem getting across the border - legally).
hbg

...HOCKEY PLAYERS WELCOME IN THE UNITED STATES...
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2006 03:28 am
Not questioning the origin of the cup, or who has won what. But the comments seemed to imply that it was to be between the two western teams, while the two eastern teams are still battling it out. Buffalo and Carolina.

respectfully,

plain old sumac
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 08:37 am
Heh..

Quote:
Flag target provokes racism probe

A pub landlady who used a Welsh flag as target practice at a St George's Day event has been questioned by police over alleged racism.
Angie Sayer pinned it up at the New Inn in Wedmore, Somerset, for customers to take pot shots at with bows and arrows.

She claimed the Welsh flag was the only large image she could find to "slay the dragon" like the patron saint.

The complainant is understood to have reported her as a joke, which backfired when police arrived to question her.

Mrs Sayer said she had not intended to offend anyone by using the Welsh dragon during the event on 23 April.

"We used the flag because it was the only dragon we could find. We had people in here from Wales when we had the competition and they seemed to be enjoying it," she said.

"A week later the police came round to say they had an anonymous complaint that I was a racist and wanted to know if I knew who it was."

Mrs Sayer added: "How on earth can the police come down for things so silly as that when there's an awful lot of other things far more horrific that need to be sorted out? I'm not anti-anybody at all."

An Avon and Somerset police spokesman said an officer visited her informally, believing the complaint to be a prank, and that no formal objection had been made.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 09:59 am
as an old (irish) buddy of mine said a long time ago when we were talking about the various different 'tribes' inhabiting the 'british' isles :
"...bloody welsh , just like the bloody french , all they are good for is singing !".
(btw he was a really decent chap , but his language tended to be colourful - i just remember : he also was a good catholic and a strong supporter of old-style socialism ... and he was a life-insurance salesman ; now they are called 'insurance representative' ).
hbg
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 04:14 pm
Molly Ivins is also concerned about our preoccupation with the flag. Here's her column from yesterday's papers.

Monday 05 June 2006

Austin, Texas - Thank goodness the Republicans are around to tell me what to worry about. The flag-burning crisis - here in Austin, there's that pall of smoke rising from the west every morning (it's from an area called Tarrytown, where they burn hundreds of flags daily).

You didn't know hundreds of flags were being burned daily? Actually, you can count on your hand the number of incidents reported over the last five years. For instance, there was one flag burned in 2005 by a drunken teenager and one by a protester in California in 2002. This appalling record of ravishment must be stopped. You're clearly not worried about what matters.

Gay marriage, now there's a crisis. Well, OK, so there isn't much gay marriage going on here in Texas. None, in fact. First, we made it illegal. Then, we made it unconstitutional. But President Bush is all concerned about it, so I guess we have to alter the U.S. Constitution.

Gus and Captain Call (of "Lonesome Dove" fame) will be an item - with who knows who waiting in line right after them.

Also of great concern to Republicans is God Almighty, who, rather to my surprise, has been elected chairman of the Texas Republican Party. That's what they announced at the biannual convention in Fort Worth this week: "He is the chairman of the party." Sheesh, the Democrats couldn't even get Superman.

Also weighing down the nation with a heavy burden is the estate tax, which the Senate will try to repeal this week. The estate tax applies to around 1% of Americans, and I have yet to find any record of it costing anyone a family farm or business. It affects only very, very, very rich people, of whom you are probably not one. And they don't, actually, need another tax break.

These are the things we are supposed to be worrying about, and you notice that it frees us of quite a few troubles we might otherwise fret about.

The war in Iraq? No sweat.

War with Iran? We're carefree.

The economy? Hey, did you see that employment report? Well, ignore it.

Budget out of control, shipwreck ahead? Never mind - Bush doesn't. Worst class divisions since the Gilded Age, rich so much more enormously richer than everybody else, country starting to get creepy? Don't worry, be happy. Torture, massacre, extraordinary rendition, hidden gulag of prisons in foreign countries, Guantanamo and massive violations of international law, American law and the Constitution? Well, you can see why gay marriage is a far greater menace.

Wipe out for the environment; hundreds of regulations and laws changed to favor those who exploit and damage natural resources; all so common no one is keeping track of them all? Let her rip.

Global warming? In the first place, it's Al Gore's issue. In the second place, it's a downer. In the third place, who cares if it's too late in a few years?

Homeland security/war on terror? With the highly excellent disposition of anti-terror funds once more judiciously applied by the Department of Homeland Security, we truly have nothing to worry about. We're ready to stop terrorist attacks in Wyoming, and there are no important cultural sites in New York City, so let's rock.

Oil crisis? Ha! What oil crisis? You want a $100 rebate you can then give the oil companies? Hey, we're going to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and that should see us through ... oh, about nine months.

Windfall profits? You think the oil companies are ripping us off for windfall profits? Who? ExxonMobil? Why, they would never!

I believe what we have here is a difference over moral values.

The Republicans are worried about the flag, gay marriage and the terrible burden of the estate tax on the rich. The rest of us are obviously unnecessarily worried about war, peace, the economy, the environment and civilization. Another reason to vote Republican - they have a shorter list.
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Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 05:59 pm
It's true that the St George flag is associated with the British National Party and Nazism here in England - and so, seeing London decked out like a skinhead's bedroom is somehow offensive to the sensibilities - nationalism is after all, not a great step forward if you happen to be working towards global (or even neighbourly) peace.

On the other hand, it is England's flag - the only one we have for our country and if we've allowed it to become associated with the BNP and Nazism - that is entirely our own fault.
We should have banned any political party from using it - talk about misrepresentation! It should represent ALL Englishmen.
We should never have allowed the moronic BNP to adopt it.
They must feel like they've won a bloody general election!

Is this all our flag now stands for? A football team - the BNP and a symptom of the division of the human race?

I think there is a bit of 'flag envy' going on here in England following high coverage of American flag flying - but it's a different thing in the US, I believe. Americans are much more comfortable with their flag - and I feel the same about the Union Jack.

I did hear an interesting comment on the radio, about the St George flags in London.
Someone said that ordinary people flying the flag in their thousands, were taking the St George Cross back, away from the BNP.
That's one way of looking at it. Another way is to acknowledge that flag waving is always encouraged in times of war.

Truth is that some people are nationalistic and others feel the country they happened to be born in is just a geographic grid location - that they are no different to anyone else born on the planet - and therefore in no need of an identifying badge or flag.

In a thousand years time (if we haven't blown ourselves into extinction) I think the St George flag will have gone the way of the Dragon.

It's a tribal thing, becoming more inappropriate and outdated with the times.
(Watch footage of old EnglandVScotland football matches ((before they were banned in 1984 because of crowd trouble)) if you want to see tribal, eh McTag?)
Speaking of which, I didn't know until today, but the world's first international football match was played between Scotland and England in Glasgow in 1872 (a 0-0 draw).

That's what I don't get about the sport - we've been playing it nearly a hundred and forty years and we still haven't decided on the winner!
What's the f---- point winning a cup - if you have to give it back and win it all over again next year? Or in four years time?
If you've already won it - why d'you have to win it again?
Makes no bloody sense to me.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 06:16 pm
ENDYMION :
"...Makes no bloody sense to me. "

ah , those are words that sound as if they came right out of the mouth of my irish friend ! (i do miss hisdistinctive and descriptive language)
hbg
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 12:23 am
Well, some good posts there. Molly Ivins is right on the money, isn't she?
I hope that gets posted on other threads too.

Endy, I saw on TV yesterday a cabinet minister's car with the same naff flag flying! Ye gods. One of Blair's Babes, I can't remember which one.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 12:37 am
A bit of humour on the subject:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/britain/article/0,,1783505,00.html
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:24 am
Droll, indeed, McTag. (And right on the mark, imo.)
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material girl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:50 am
Why is it silly or immature?
Does that mean we shouldnt have had the street celebrations for the Queens coronation or royal weddings?
Should we not support who we choose during the Olympics.
If we like a singer should we not wear a tshirt with their picture emblazoned on it.If not alot of heavy metal fans will be annoyed.
Should we not wear these wrist bands for certain causes,child abuse,cancer.Or should we not wear AIDS ribbons!!

To me its all the same thing,

All we are doing is showing we support something.Its a very positive thing, long may it continue!!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 06:34 am
Saw the first German flags on some cars here recently.

And today two English flags, on German white vans Shocked
(They were from a town in the neighbarhood with a big British garrison: some just stay here after leaving the Forces.)
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 07:18 am
Hey I just heard today that Tony Blair will fly an England flag behind No 10 Downing Street on Saturday.

Well...can he? That building is the official residence of the British prime minister and so I would argue he has no business flying any other flag than a UK flag there.

I smell revolution in the air.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 02:52 pm
McTag wrote:
Hey I just heard today that Tony Blair will fly an England flag behind No 10 Downing Street on Saturday.

Well...can he? That building is the official residence of the British prime minister and so I would argue he has no business flying any other flag than a UK flag there.

I smell revolution in the air.


Hmm. Interesting point of law here. While it's true that Blair is the PM of the United Kingdon, his residence is certainly located within the boundaries of England. A couple of canny writers to the signet could certainly have a lively argument here. Apropos of this, are the Scots flying the flag of my namesake, Saint Andrew, these days? Or doesn't Scotland have a team in the World Cup madness?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:07 pm
Merry Andrew wrote:
Or doesn't Scotland have a team in the World Cup madness?


Since they had had a German manager who taught them to forget how to play properly: no, they aren't.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:11 pm
Yes and, er, no, in that order.

It is an anomaly, due I think to historical precedent, that each of the home countries of the UK can enter a team in international competitions.
The teams from Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland were knocked out during the qualifying process. The entering teams worldwide are seeded, grouped in fours, and one team progresses out of each group of four. Or something like that. Which if you think about it, fits the UK case quite well, although the home countries were not drawn against each other this time. We would have beaten England of course.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:13 pm
From today's Evening Standard (London/UK):

http://i5.tinypic.com/121d1s1.jpg

SHE IS SCOTTISH!
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:14 pm
She is? Shocked
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:21 pm
Aberdeen, I think.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 03:23 pm
She sounds so un-Scottish, I checked:

Tessa Jowell was born in London and was educated at St Margaret's School in Aberdeen and the universities of Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Goldsmith's, London.

She is a visiting fellow at Nuffield College, Oxford.

Tessa's previous Ministerial appointments were Minister of State for Employment, Welfare to Work and Equal Opportunities at the Department for Education and Employment and Minister of State for Public Health at the Department of Health. She became a Privy Counsellor in 1998.

Before the 1997 General Election, Tessa was the Spokesperson on Health, Opposition Spokesperson for Women and Opposition Whip.

Before her election to Parliament in 1992, Tessa had a career in psychiatric social work, social policy and public sector management.

She is married with a daughter, a son and three stepchildren
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