Could you tell me something about HIPPIES?

It is clear to me that if anyone wishes to learn recent History there is no one on these threads who is more learned or adept than Asherman. I read his take on the Hippies and the Beat Generation very carefully and found it to be exactly as I have read about it.

I am enthralled by Asherman's story about Ginsberg. Did that take place in Lawrence Ferlinghetti's Book Store in San Francisco, Mr. Asherman?

The incident occurred in Los Angeles. I've seen Allan be quite cold and nasty to women in private, though in public he was usually affable. In fact he sometimes treated Orlovski pretty bad too. Being famous doesn't make people nice, indeed in most public persons I've known there is a huge gap between public and private personas, but don't generalize.

During the time we lived in North Beach, City Lights was one of our favorite hangouts. I didn't know Ferlingetti well. I met Watts only once. I accompanied a friend to the houseboat across the Bay and spent a few hours talking Buddhism with him. The guy I really always wanted to meet was Gary Snyder, but our paths never crossed until years later. I was doing post-graduate work at Cal. St. Long Beach in Oriental Religion and Philosophy, and Gary Snyder was just back from Japan as a guest lecturer. After the class, I introduced myself and to my delighted surprise he knew who I was and commented that he had long wanted to meet me. We talked for about an hour. Snyder is Renzai and I'm Soto, but that made no difference at all in our discussion. It seems like we went somewhere for coffee and a bite to eat, but my memory is probably playing tricks. A delightful man, and one of the most knowledgable Western Buddhists I've ever known.

Had an attack of the munchies, didjya - know whatchya mean; been there, done that - or so I'm told

The only reason grass remains illegal is to keep me from being perpetually stoned. It has its uses, but, as in all things, in moderation. I'd far rather live in a Marijuana World than Martini World ... I think it would be a less dangerous place, and less suffering would result. Oh well ... no one ever listens to me anyway.

There was a good illustration backing up what Asherman says when a major footballing competition was divided between Holland and Belgium a few years ago. The canny old Dutch instructed their police turn a blind eye to anybody smoking [although technically it's illegal to smoke it outside of the designated cafes] and come down heavy on anybody drinking in public.

The result, no hooliganism or other football related problems to speak of in Holland but in Belgium - where they pride themselves on their super-strength beer - a legion of arrests.

Still, the world wasn't listening it seems!

I met Ginsburg only once but, on the basis of that single meeting, I would judge him to have been terribly egocentric, self-absorbed and narcissistic. It was a farewell party for a UPI news reporter in New York being sent to the Saigon bureau. Ginsburg was among the guests. Most of us were in the kitchen, fooling around with some alcohol (and other chemicals, too, I guess) when Ginsburg made an appearnce. He had come from taping an interview with Bill Buckley and the interview was about to air. He shushed everyone, plunked himself down in front of the television and spent the evening dilligently studying himself while the interview was being broadcast. Heaven help you if you uttered a sound while his interview was on.

Asherman
Asherman,
your summation of most of the 20th century made me feel like I was on a roller coaster. Excellent material and writing.

A couple of comments. I feel it's important to expand a bit on existentialism. Traditional philosophy takes the view that "essence"
preceeds "existence." We are what we are and we do what we do because of who we are. It fits in with a belief in original sin.

Existentialism takes the view that existence preceeds
essence. Everything we have ever done and will ever do, defines who we are. This puts an enormous burden on the individual person. It makes everyone responsible and accountable for all their deeds and actions.

The other comment concerns the word "beat". "Beat" has a few meanings or suggestions - the beat of Jazz, the beat down generation, and the seven "beatitudes." I recall an article in which Ken Kesey says something to the effect that of course beat means beatitudes.

Asherman- It was the considered opinion of one of my friends from the famous "Second City" group in Chicago that Ginsberg's homosexuality troubled him to a great extent but he did not want to disown what he saw as his true nature.

Ginsberg wasn't really a very sociable person, though he was at his best when on display. Orlovski (funny, it just occurred to me that I don't remember his first name, if I ever knew it at all), was often in the background, but seldom ventured anything on his own. As difficult as Ginsberg was, he was extremely talented at wringing the most out of his words. Mostly he was lionized by the people we both knew, but I can't say he was really much liked by most. Personally, I didn't like him much. I thought he was far too egotistical, and I've never thought of him as a Buddhist. He got onto a kick later of playing a harmonium(?) while chanting. That was well suited to his sonorous voice, but I think most of that was just theatrical effect. His early poetry, in my opinion was his best work.

That'd be Peter Orlovsky, Asherman. Only kinda-sorta ever met Ginsburg myself, really only saw him "Perform" at various venues, with perhaps a brief, surrounded-by-other-folks chat following his reading (he had a helluva coterie - buncha what seemed to be full-time hangers-on) - mosly was much less impressed with his readings of his own stuff than reading it myself ... dunno, there was just something about his voice and his delivery that just never "worked" for me.

I think Orlovsky's still alive.

Pot will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no pot.
-----

Far out and trippy man.
------

Zigzag papers please, 1.5s'
-------------------------


PURPLE HAZE ALL IN MY BRAIN
LATELY THINGS JUST DON'T SEEM THE SAME
ACTIN' FUNNY BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY
'SCUSE ME WHILE I KISS THE SKY

PURPLE HAZE ALL AROUND
DON'T KNOW IF I'M COMIN' UP OR DOWN
AM I HAPPY OR IN MISERY?
WHATEVER IT IS, THAT GIRL PUT A SPELL ON ME

HELP ME HELP ME
OH NO NO...NO

YEAH
PURPLE HAZE ALL IN MY EYES
DONT KNOW IF ITS DAY OR NIGHT
YOU GOT ME BLOWIN, BLOWIN MA MIND
IS IT TOMOROW OR JUST THE END OF TIME?

NO, HELP ME AW YEAH! OH NO NO OH HELP ME ......ect
------------

In the white room with black curtains near the station.
Blackroof country, no gold pavements, tired starlings.
Silver horses ran down moonbeams in your dark eyes.
Dawnlight smiles on you leaving, my contentment.

I'll wait in this place where the sun never shines;
Wait in this place where the shadows run from themselves.
------------------

Lies that life is black and white
Spoke from my skull. I dreamed
Romantic flanks of musketeers
Foundationed deep, somehow
Ah but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now
-------------

Wow, what a rush

More from Mr. Natural;

Anything that gets ya off is dope.
Anything that don't, ain't.
With that understood, in this whole wide world, there's only two kinds of dope;
Dope ya got,
and
Dope ya ain't.

Timber halcyon days for sure

The Fabulous Furry Freak brothers

"Oh man! We're totally, completely out of dope!!!!!"

Remember toking up then laughing til you almost wet your pants from reading 'never eat anything bigger than your head' by kliban ...


Then again I did that watching the news

It is my opinion that only those who want to obliterate their rational faculties do dope or alcohol. Of course, some may not have many rational faculties to start with so they don't lose too much.

It has been observed that one of the reasons why Alcoholism is not a problem with Jews is that they prize the retention of their reasoning faculties.

Sure, and the reason that alcholoism is such a problem on the Rez is that Injuns can't physically metabolize booze. I wouldn't recommend loudly voicing that opinon either in a phsyical anthropology class, or in Gallup.

One of my favorite T-shirts from the era (to most participants an ongoing period) is 'reality is for those that can't handle drugs' :wink:

One I've always admired is "Support Mental Health - or I'll kill you"

roses are red
violets are blue
I'm schizophrenic
and so am I