Are people really victim when it comes to beign raped?

Bella Dea wrote:

Heeven wrote:
Does it mean the woman shares responsibility for the rape? No. Does it mean the woman should learn some self-respect? Yes.

I agree with you 100%

And if this is what others are trying to say, I agree with you as well.

OH....MY.....GOD....BELLA....

That is what I've been SAYING ALL ALONG!!!!!

I'll be honest, on I think page 12 when you were telling Heeven what a good post that was, more than once....I was sitting here thinking...

WTF!!!!!????? Isn't THAT what I was SAYING back on page 1 and 2???!!!!

All I've got to say is I'm glad Heeven as some magical way of saying the same thing Kicky, myself and others have, but is able to convey the meaning properly......

I've got to go find an award for Heeven....I'll be back.

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So, I haven't read pages 3-14, but page 15 seems like a nice resolution to page 2. Yay!

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Oh, and Bella....I'm saying this in a totally non-argumentative way....but you've really got to get over yourself with this "You just couldn't know" stuff.

Really.

That's about 1,582 times worse than the "oh, but if you HAD a baby, you'd know."

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Here's Heeven Award!

Don't ask me what it has to do with anything, it was just filled with fabulousness, as is Heeven.

http://www.sevenstarsandstripes.com/content/magazine/GrandHotelEurope/Faberge-Egg.gif

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kickycan wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
Chai Tea wrote:

I think it's grossly unfair for a person to say, "If you haven't been raped, you just don't know"

I think it's grossly unfair for someone who hasn't been raped to think they have any clue what it's like to be raped.

Not one person on this thread has said they do, as far as I can see.

Oh, by the way, I wanted to apologize for my earlier outburst on this thread. I shouldn't have been so insensitive to you. I'm sorry for the way I presented myself. Sometimes in the heat of battle, I just get all caught up in the pasion of the argument and say really mean, stupid ****. I'm sorry.

Apology accepted. I apologize for being difficult and stubborn. :wink:

And I was just responding to Chai's post.

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Chai Tea wrote:

Oh, and Bella....I'm saying this in a totally non-argumentative way....but you've really got to get over yourself with this "You just couldn't know" stuff.

Really.

That's about 1,582 times worse than the "oh, but if you HAD a baby, you'd know."

No argument but honestly, how could you know something you've never experienced?

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Bella Dea wrote:

...how could you know something you've never experienced?

Forgive me if I'm seeing this in terms that are too simplistic, but isn't the attempt at that something that we see (and have grown very used to) in basically every part of human society?

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Quote:

Bottom line. Rape is not about sex, it's about control

You all might as well give up trying to convince anyone that 1) rape isn't about sex

Um, why do you people do this?
Why do you insist on such sillyness. It may be a fair argument to say rape is more about the hurting than the sexual urge, but it is definately not a valid argument to say the above statements.

Rape is about sex. It occurs on other species, but in that case is refered to as 'forced copulation'. RAPE = SEX. Why do you want to argue otherwise? You just make yourselves out to be silly, and that doesn't help put the point across how bad rape is or whatever point your making.

Rape is not about control. Rape is about sex, in which control is used. Driving a car is not about wheels. It is about getting from A to B efficiently, in which wheels are used. (Take THAT for an analogy).
Rape IS about sex. If its violence for non sexual reasons its assault, if it violence to obtain sex it is rape. GET OVER IT.

Quote:

So, we did, and he did, and I finally got some sleep. Did I have sex with him willingly....hell no...but I didn't feel raped. So, having a strong adversion to being hurt, I took the lesser of two evils and just had sex.
That sure wasn't willing sex. I didn't want to have sex at all with the person,...not...at....all.

Um, thats sick, im going to go to the bathroom now before I yack and ruin my keyboard. Hope my next chick is more... conservative. No offense, cos I assume you made that up.

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RaceDriver205 wrote:

Um, why do you people do this?
Why do you insist on such sillyness. It may be a fair argument to say rape is more about the hurting than the sexual urge, but it is definately not a valid argument to say the above statements.

Rape is about sex. It occurs on other species, but in that case is refered to as 'forced copulation'. RAPE = SEX. Why do you want to argue otherwise? You just make yourselves out to be silly, and that doesn't help put the point across how bad rape is or whatever point your making.

Rape is not about control. Rape is about sex, in which control is used. Driving a car is not about wheels. It is about getting from A to B efficiently, in which wheels are used. (Take THAT for an analogy).
Rape IS about sex. If its violence for non sexual reasons its assault, if it violence to obtain sex it is rape. GET OVER IT.

Ever hear the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"?
Well, I don't know if I've ever seen a more hamhandedly clear demonstration of it, as what you did here. There are elements of both control and sex involved in the crime. No need to alienate all those who think control has a part in it, with words like "silly" and "get over it" - but, if you must approach it that way don't be suprised if you're the only one who doesn't think you're a big flaming ass.

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Yeah snood, whatever.
These statements are nonsense:
"Bottom line. Rape is not about sex, it's about control
You all might as well give up trying to convince anyone that 1) rape isn't about sex "
You must surely concur they are nonsense.

Its the second time ive challenged those ideas, so this time I was a bit more thorough. I did not 'throw out the baby', but I did say the bath was filled with water.

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snood wrote:

Ever hear the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"?
Well, I don't know if I've ever seen a more hamhandedly clear demonstration of it, as what you did here. There are elements of both control and sex involved in the crime. No need to alienate all those who think control has a part in it, with words like "silly" and "get over it" - but, if you must approach it that way don't be suprised if you're the only one who doesn't think you're a big flaming ass.

Consider this a big virtual kiss on the cheek snood.

Would you tell a rape victim to get over it if she told you that it wasn't about the sex, but about the beating she got before the rape, if THAT was her reasoning for saying ' rape isn't about sex'?

Rape is about many things, because many different people rape.
And yes, rape IS about sex because that is the end result of rape- forced sex.
But, to say that it is only about sex is incorrect. And to say that it could possibly NOT be about " sex" is incorrect as well.

Some may rape out of anger and hatred for the female.

Some may rape out of a closet sexual desire for anal sex with a man

Some may rape out of a need for power

Some may rape out of loss of mental clarity due to drugs, alcohol, or psychosis.

Sometimes, rape is all about the act of sex..for some people .. yes.
But to tell someone that they are 'silly' and to -get over it- when discussing a subject such as rape, where women are OFTEN told those same reasons for dealing with a rape..
you lose a bit of credibility..

I see your point.
Its your choice of words that are a bit off..

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Anal penetration with a broomstick is about procreation?

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I got a virtual cheek kiss from shewolfnm.....

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Agreed.

I especially hate it when someone says "no offense" as part of a comment that of course was meant to offend everyone around. That doesn't magically make it okay. (Unless RaceDriver really is that clueless about the world. Either way, it's not acceptable.)

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smog wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
...how could you know something you've never experienced?
Forgive me if I'm seeing this in terms that are too simplistic, but isn't the attempt at that something that we see (and have grown very used to) in basically every part of human society?

I am not sure I understand your question.

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Noddy24 wrote:

Anal penetration with a broomstick is about procreation?

Considering the sorry state of school
Sex education now, I wouldn't be
Surprised if our benighted youth thought so.

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joefromchicago wrote:

Noddy24 wrote:
Anal penetration with a broomstick is about procreation?

Considering the sorry state of school
Sex education now, I wouldn't be
Surprised if our benighted youth thought so.

or some of the beat cops in NY city

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shewolfnm wrote:

Some may rape out of a closet sexual desire for anal sex with a man.

Do you have demonstrable consistent scientific unbiased third party statistically relevant evidence to support this contention? Are you convinced that the underlying impetus for rape is understood?

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Chumly wrote:

shewolfnm wrote:
Some may rape out of a closet sexual desire for anal sex with a man.
Do you have demonstrable consistent scientific unbiased third party statistically relevant evidence to support this contention? Are you convinced that the underlying impetus for rape is understood?

Do you talk like that in real life, or just when you're trying to impress folks on internet forums?

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Bella Dea wrote:

smog wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
...how could you know something you've never experienced?
Forgive me if I'm seeing this in terms that are too simplistic, but isn't the attempt at that something that we see (and have grown very used to) in basically every part of human society?

I am not sure I understand your question.

Whenever we try to discuss anything with anyone else, we're pretty much trying to understand things that have never happened to us. And even if similar things have happened to us, we can't ever feel or know exactly what those other people felt in those moments. This is true of all human experiences, I'd say, and I don't think you can fault someone for at least trying to make sense of things he or she has not immediately experienced. Otherwise, there's really no point to any conversation about anything.

Again, though, I might well be wrong.

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Are people really victim when it comes to beign raped?

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