Are people really victim when it comes to beign raped?

You all sound as if you think there's no such thing as a prick tease.

Not that it justifies rape, or anything like that, but all this "it's relative to the culture, and the perspective" stuff seems to deny that there are women who get twisted kicks.

Snood -
You say,
"And I am also clear that all flirtation isn't innocent."

Of course some flirtation is lusty and means it. What has that to do with rape?

Possibly (going along in your direction) some portion of the teaser flirts want to be overcome, in part to excuse them re their ethical backgrounds.
These may be some confused women, or men, as the case may be. Still...
no means no.

sakhi wrote:

snood wrote:

Not that it justifies rape, or anything like that, but all this "it's relative to the culture, and the perspective" stuff seems to deny that there are women who get twisted kicks.

You seem to just want to believe that there are women who get "twisted kicks" and are "asking for rape" with their actions.

Would you argue the same way with murder? Does anyone want to be murdered? robbed? No. Example: there are some women who'd wear a diamond necklace so that other people look at it and drool and wish they could lay their hands on it. But she doesn't want to be robbed of it.

Likewise, there may be women who'l do a lot of things to command male attention, or to even incite lust. But she is not asking for rape.

If I "seem to believe" anyone is "asking for rape" to you, because I insist on being clear that some provocation is intentional, then that is your one-dimensional thinking, and not my problem. I am crystal clear that there is no justification for forcing oneself on someone. And I am also clear that all flirtation isn't innocent.

All right, snood. I'll agree I carry serious baggage.
Perhaps we can talk and shuffle some suitcases verbally.

I guess that would be here at a2k, unless we can all meet shewolf and crew sometime.




***
I suppose I should add that my baggage doesn't mean I don't get all happy about men. Or at least some of them.
I'm approaching 65 (yaaaaack!!!!). Chances for any of us at this age tolerating each other more than three days is dim.

I'll add that I don't know that most rapes are premeditated. Perhaps those are the statistics for reported, researched rapes.

As for all these hypothetical women dancing naked, sorely tempting [..] men.....

What about the situation at Duke? Are exotic dancers "asking" to be assulted and raped?

Are nurses "asking" for rape because they "like" to care for naked men?

pre·med·i·ta·tion (prē-mĕd'ĭ-tā'shən)
n.
The act of speculating, arranging, or plotting in advance.
Law. The contemplation of a crime well enough in advance to show deliberate intent to commit the crime; forethought.

However, when a woman blatantly and physically comes onto a man, she does share some responsibility for HER actions. You just cannot treat people like this and think that is okay.

Heeven wrote:

However, when a woman blatantly and physically comes onto a man, she does share some responsibility for HER actions. You just cannot treat people like this and think that is okay.

Absolutely. But do her actions cause the rape? Would he have raped her regardless? Maybe, maybe not. The man who rapes is the only one who controls whether or not he rapes someone. That's why I can't agree with the victims responsibility thing. It's like getting into an argument with someone, very heated, and you say "I could just kill you". You may want to hurt them but you don't. If you do shoot and kill them, was it their fault for "making" you do it?

Does it mean the woman shares responsibility for the rape? No. Does it mean the woman should learn some self-respect? Yes.