Immigration and Racism in Britain and USA

You're absolutely correct, Set....and it isn't just the chav element, either. If you read my quoted box posted by nimh (previous page), you will see that I was acknowledging this fact, but didn't feel that it was right, going into too much detail, as it was a football thread and I didn't want to hijack it.

Any age, gender or race are much more likely to be racist if they are raised in an area where money is tight, jobs are hard to find and everyone is living in densely populated communities. I'm speaking for the UK now, as I don't know how it works in the USA.
You also have the other end of the spectrum, where people (usually well heeled) live in "rural" areas, and very rarely encounter any people from another country/culture.
The reasons for the urban/rural racism is different, I feel. On the one hand, the first group are mainly "competing" with each other in life (jobs, housing etc), and a common cause of conflict arises when one group sees (perceives would be a better word) another group getting special privileges, benefits or funding.

However, in no way does this racism confine itself to just white v. the rest. Indians are well known for having major conflict when it comes to mixing with other "sects" within their society. Their arranged marriages have been known to cause mayhem/violence and cruelty to one another. The Muslims are famous for "honour" punishments (and killings) within their own culture.
It is not unusual to find that the Black (ie of West Indian or African origin) population are in conflict with other black people, or are fighting with muslims of Pakistani origin. I don't know all the finer points or reasons for their disliking of one another, but it is racism just the same.

The racism coming from wealthy "rural" whites, stems from ignorance mainly, IMO. They still see old fashioned England every day, with red phone boxes, country lanes and village shops. If a new family moved into a small country village, the grapevine would be activated within hours of their arrival.....and I'm talking about a WHITE family here. They would be on a form of "probation" within that village, and wouldn't truly be accepted until they had proved themselves to be ordinary....that they fitted in well. They would basically have to conform to the norm of village life, or risk being ostracised.

Now, if a family from a different race/culture moved in, the alarm bells would sound around the area, as if the martians had landed. Racism through fear, fear through total ignorance.
In the end and after a very long time, the family, if it behaved itself (like the aforementioned white newcomers) would be accepted, but it would take a lot longer, and there would still be a very small proportion of the locals (think the foxhunting retired Colonel) that would never take to them.

But I will say it again, in most parts of "English" life that I encounter on a day to day basis, I don't see a lot of racism going on, with the exception of a deep suspicion towards the Muslim population, because of the present state of the world.
And before anyone who doesn't know me goes and chimes in that I must live a very sheltered life, I would just like to make it clear that in my job I deal with offenders of all ages, shapes, colours and religion on a day to day "one on one" basis. I have just about seen and heard it all, when it comes to thuggery and racism.
I tell you now, the London area is very tolerant compared to how it used to be in the bad old days, with more races than you can shake a stick at, all getting along with one another on the whole, and getting by in life.

From today's Guardian, page 7

Online version of above article.

I don't believe that Nimh even knows the meaning of "racism". In the Netherlands, the educational level is so depressed( Only One moth-eaten University in the Netherlands among the first fifty in the world) that they hire hafl educated people to teach them!

hafl educated is better than nunn.

<insert big smiley here>

I made an error- It should not have been hafl educated. It should have been poorly educated.

Harvard does not admit many students from the Netherlands because they have proven themselves to be poorly prepared. The teachers of those students in the Netherlands are abominable!!!

Any facts and figures to back that up, BernardR?

Yes. Four years ago, when Harvard did a study of students from other countries, there were only 2 students at Harvard which had come from Dutch Universities to study,

I am sure that you, A Briton, know that the cowardly Dutch surrendered to Hitler immediately after some bombings of Rotterdam while the British fought and defeated the Nazis in the skies.

The Dutch are cowards!!!

BernardR- Do you have a link for what you said, or is it just your own opinion?

How can I examine the truth or falsity of your statement if you do not give evidence?

The only link I have, Mr, Hinteler is the account of William L. Shirer in his book, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich in which he says:

"The Germans attacked the Dutch on May 1OTH....Within five days it was all over. Rotterdam surrendered and then the Dutch Armed Forces:

PP. 722-723

When I contrast this behavior with the behavior of the British who won the Battle of Britain in the air against a superior force, how can I not call the Dutch cowards?

In changing your concept of history to a more common one, e.g. like it is done by people with some education.

I am sorry, Mr. Hinteler. I don't understand what you are saying. Try it again, will you please?

That's what I meant.

What did you mean?

The Dutch, BernardR, suffered greatly under the Nazi occupation.

Their population were starved, beaten and shot systematically. Many Dutch people tried to protect their Jewish population from deportation and suffered because of it.
Towards the latter part of the war, the Dutch had no food in any of their major towns or cities. This went on for weeks, and a large proportion of these people were suffering from severe malnutrition when they were eventually liberated.

All this was happening while the majority of your relatives alive at that time were probably playing golf and living life in a relatively normal manner.
...and YOU have the temerity to judge THEM!

If Britain had had the misfortune to be connected to the European mainland, we would also have most certainly been overrun, and would have faced the same suffering as the Dutch.

To call the Dutch cowards, shows that you have no knowledge of history concerning the second world war.

You may be right, Lord Ellpus. But When I look at the behavior of the so-called "Historian" from the Netherlands--Mr. Nimh, what am I to think?

He tells me that the people in the Netherlands are far superior to the British because they have a higher Per Capita income. In reality, the people in the Netherlands are not one half as good as a Brit.

Nah...the Dutch are lovely people, who are probably the most laid back guys in Europe.

I won't have a bad word said against them. They are my favourite neighbours.

Lordy, I agree with you when you talk abt rural vs urban racism.

However, the problem is also the covert, subtle racism which seems to be so rampant in the UK these days. People normally don't see if happening, but for people at the receiving end.....

I have no doubt about that, G. It must be bloody infuriating, sometimes.