AN IMPOSSIBLE EVENT

JLNobody, I don't know you, so I can't say. But your position is certainly understandable and infinitely more rational than our host's "let's arm 5 year olds or else nobody is safe" attitude.

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You're gonna pay for that, JLN . . . watch yer back . . .

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Hey Setanta!

Cool poem! Your own work?

JLN, I can understand your position, especially when you expound it by honestly saying you have no rational explanation. I believe you wouldn't use a gun except when you feel it's justified. The same goes for OmSigDavid btw. But OmsigDavid believes, where you don't, that just because he is capable of refraining himself from violent actions, others can act with the same prudence. I strongly disagree. The moment Freuds
Id starts to control someone's actions, guns become a lethal hazard indeed. Barring that, how easy would it be to acquire a gun to commit a crime that way? Just tackle a gun carrying citizen in a dark place by clobbering him or her on the head, take the weapon, commit the crime.

Naj.

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Bella Dea wrote:

You're right, you're right...I know you're right...but....

Ask Set...I constantly feel the need to play on the merry-go-round of insanity with these people.

VERY RUDE.
U HAVE NO MANNERS.
David

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blacksmithn wrote:

JLNobody, I don't know you, so I can't say. But your position is certainly understandable and infinitely more rational than our host's "let's arm 5 year olds or else nobody is safe" attitude.

I did not say that, Blacksmith.
Y do u feel a need to distort my position ?

I hope u r more ACCURATE
when u swing your hammer. (smack ! crash ! bang ! )
David

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Bella Dea wrote:

I thought these facts were interesting. Please, argue with them if you'd like.

Quote:
While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense.
-- A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health.

Waiting for Omsig's reaction..

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I refer you to post #1999051 of this thread, wherein you opine that it might not have been a bad thing for the 5 year old to have been armed.

Maybe you forgot that.

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blacksmithn wrote:

I refer you to post #1999051 of this thread, wherein you opine that it might not have been a bad thing for the 5 year old to have been armed.

Maybe you forgot that.

I did NOT forget.
In post #1999899, u quoted me as saying:
"let's arm 5 year olds or else nobody is safe"
[emphasis added]

I did not say that.
U make it sound as tho I advocated
making 5 year olds BODYGUARDS FOR EVERYONE ELSE,
whereas, I opined that it wud have been better if
a 5 year old had been armed in his own defense
( in view of the fact that he had been murdered with a hammer ).
I 'll stand by what I actually SAID.

I imagine that the 5 year old murder victim
wud wish that he had been ABLE
to kill the murderer in time to save himself.

Is that unreasonable ??

In other words,
I do NOT believe that as he was being pounded to death,
he reasoned: " well, because of my youth,
I really don 't mind being beaten to death;
that 's much nicer than my being armed in my own defense,
so that I cud stop the killer. "
David

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nimh wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
I thought these facts were interesting. Please, argue with them if you'd like.

Quote:
While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense.
-- A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health.

Waiting for Omsig's reaction..

My reaction is that, as I remember,
the Kellerman study was DISCREDITED,
as being fony repressionist, anti-freedom propaganda,
using fony means of statistical analysis, back in the 1990s.

In regard to the assertions about suicide:
1. people did not wait until guns were invented
to begin committing suicide; they used other means.
2. A man is within his rights to choose a time to end his life.
It is HIS life; he is sovereign over it,
whether he jumps out a window,
or runs his car into a bridge abuttment,
or uses a knife, or does something else.

Think about it:
according to Ted Kennedy,
there are 80,000,000 gun owners in America.
Many of us own more than one gun.
In any day,
only the tiniest fraction of 1% have any trouble
with involving guns; can we say as much for our CARS ?

Is there a reason
that the almost 100% of innocent gun owners
shud be plagued and troubled by anti-freedom elements
in America, as a result of their not doing anything improper ?
David

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You know something? I cannot understand why you start using these kind of stories as material to advocate your cause (the freedom to carry guns if so desired), whereas you state that 'only the tiniest fraction of people', namely 1% of 80 million people ( 800 thousand persons ) is for you not cause enough for gun carriers to be denied the right to wield guns. I cannot but conclude you place a VERY small value on the people's lives, unless those lives can advocate your cause.

And don't bother telling me I didn't quote you right... Reread your own post.

Naj

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No Naj, i didn't write that . . . it's from a Joanie Mitchell song. I often free associate with song lyrics, as opposed to just unconnected words . . .

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OmSigDAVID wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
You're right, you're right...I know you're right...but....

Ask Set...I constantly feel the need to play on the merry-go-round of insanity with these people.

VERY RUDE.
U HAVE NO MANNERS.
David

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Ironic that someone who shouts at everyone accuses someone else of being rude, no?

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David's one note tune has been playing since and during Abuzz with the same resonance.

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OmSigDAVID wrote:

My reaction is that, as I remember,
the Kellerman study was DISCREDITED,
as being fony repressionist, anti-freedom propaganda,
using fony means of statistical analysis, back in the 1990s.

Uh, just because some people say it isn't so doesn't make it not so. On the flip, just because Kellerman says it's so doesn't make it so.

However, if you could provide me with accurate figures, then we can put this whole thing to rest. Otherwise, I will go with the study that is out there.

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He's undoubtedly out shooting a few suspected felons. I'm sure he'll get back to us shortly...

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Or perhaps trying to teach a 5 year old not to shoot his friend while playing cops and robbers with mommy and daddy's loaded gun that is in the nightstand in case of a break in.

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edgarblythe wrote:

David's one note tune has been playing since and during Abuzz with the same resonance.

YES

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Setanta wrote:

Ironic that someone who shouts at everyone accuses someone else of being rude, no?

NO !

It just serves to lay emfasis, here n there,
as by intoning one 's voice, if orally speaking,
and
to render the post more visible.
David

P.S.:
I said that already b4.

That is DIFFERENT than being personally insulting,
because u don 't like someone 's message,
i.e., content based ad hominem invective.

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Bella Dea wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

My reaction is that, as I remember,
the Kellerman study was DISCREDITED,
as being fony repressionist, anti-freedom propaganda,
using fony means of statistical analysis, back in the 1990s.

Uh, just because some people say it isn't so doesn't make it not so.
On the flip, just because Kellerman says it's so doesn't make it so.

AGREED.

His leftist statistical foibles were exposed
( if I remember accurately, by John Lott ) making a scandal for Kellerman.

I am not sure if it was the Kellerman study,
or an earlier one,
that did such things as asserting that PEOPLE WITH GUNS IN THEIR HOMES
met a high number of violent deaths,
including suicides,
when upon investigation it turned out that they
included in their count,
folks who drowned in the ocean, or
people who jumped off of buildings,
or were eletrocuted on-the-job, or were killed in traffic accidents,
with their guns at home; outrages like that.

I read about this some time back in the 1990s,
hence, I 'm sorry for my imprecise memory on the subject.

Quote:

However, if you could provide me with accurate figures, then we can put this whole thing to rest.

I CAN, do it,
but it will take time and work.

I possess Lott 's work, several of his books,
but it wud take some digging.
In the last decade,
I had the information at hand;
as of now, I don 't remember what became of it,
tho I did not throw it away.
Statistical analysis was never my strong point,
nor have I ever been a real swift researcher; for this I 'm sorry.

Quote:

Otherwise, I will go with the study that is out there.

U mean to tell me
that there is only ONE study " out there " ?

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AN IMPOSSIBLE EVENT

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