I'm now a temporary conservative.

I'd like to take your avatar out to dinner, Sofe.

Damn, PDiddie, three agreements in one year.

In one year and out the other

one year into the next, i can't tell them apart anymore.

They're short, getting shorter

So, off the cuff neo con osso thrashes around for filaments. I am looking at my viewpoints and see I am too conservative in at least one way for most of the extremes of the spectrum, and that is that I don't like destruction as a mode of change. So, no, that isn't neocon, but it's the con my spyder lands on.

Some here have probably seen my not too frequent but heartfelt comments against bombs, which I have family background in. I think most takeovers that are violent have equal and opposite reactions at some point and so am increasingly unthrilled about a side winning or losing that way, as the case may be. Hatreds are reactions, and acting out the hatred brings more reaction.

Lots of the interstices of the societies of the world are, have been, and always will be, loused up by violent actions. I am for more engagement, more dialog, more understanding, I know you are all barfing, but that has been shown to work from time to time in isolated spots. Short of that euphoric idea, I still am for the less destructive of every choice that comes up - not only for moralistic reasons, but for tactical ones, having to do with less reaction coming back.

So, given this as what I am learning is an underlying opinion in m'mind, you can see that back in the late sixties, early seventies, I wouldn't want universities closed in protest. I think universities are beacons of hope, at least in theory. I didn't want San Francisco clogged up recently, in the notdistant war protests. I want SF to live and thrive for all its people, and the rest of us too.

I agree Craven, no hugging allowed!

My problem with the polarity of conservative vs. liberal is that it's not very specific. Let's leave off talking about conservatives in general and just talk about the "conservatives" in the White House at the moment, for the time being. These folks go beyond conservative, they are fanatics (and unelected I might add). And they're fascist fanatics at that, as opposed to democratic fanatics. Now before anyone feels the need to point out to me that this is my opinion (and therefore biased) I would like to point out that we're all talking about our own opinions, and our opinions color our choice and statement of facts. Opinions are by definition biased, not neutral. In any case this is my subjective opinion. The Republicans now in control of the US government and therefore of the World to some extent, are dangerous fanatics. George Bush should be impeached. And more power to the Democrats engaging in the filibuster in Washington and to those lawmakers in TX who are hiding out in the Holiday Inn in Ardmore, OK. Bless their sweet little hearts.

Now, everybody guess, please. This is a statement of (a) a conservative or (b) a liberal?

Call me opinionated and biased, and I'll agree with you.

There is nothing I would like better than to have conservatives and liberals bury their animosity and try to solve our problems based on the situation, not ideology. But, the ones in the White house are leading the conservatives on a destructive course, and I see no way to be nice until they are out of power. I see no way to have a dialog with someone who will not speak in good faith.

i do agree with Lola on this, it seems to me there are liberals-conservatives- and the Bush agenda. three very distinct ideologies.

Oh, and bombs are not good for the soil, probably the water, the people, or the underlying artifacts of history.

Which doesn't mean I am entirely anti-war. Sometimes there are appropriate reasons, and appropriate actions.

And besides all that, if someone bombed me, I'd be pissed.

Yes, I know and grieve the WTC. There is a pickle jar. Did we get the offender recently? and look at how this all happened, planes and targets over time. I am conservative about that. Planes and targets are a gross way of learning to live on this earth, however fun they may be in online games.

My dad edited, arranged for and edited the footage for the movie in the forties, Twelve O'Clock High - he did the key air fight scenes; I believe that was the first of its kind.

Call me a peacenik, but that isn't quite accurate. Let's say I am wary of airpower answers.

I have a problem with the goons in charge calling themselves conservatives. This is something I harp on occasionally, thus letting off the hook good old fashioned conservatives, but these guys are radicals, not conservatives. So why do conservatives hang with them? Being a liberal, I'm not trying to keep you from fouling the nest of the conservative, but you might want to rethink it...!

aack, I see that last post of mine taken out of context has me pushing my dad doing film editing as why we shouldn't have bombers flying about the earth.
Ah, well, there is more history than that.

There seem to be a variety of conservative stances, just as there are among the liberals....liberal and conservative being increasingly obsolete terms as things break down in different ways. Much of the sniping that happens is against the apparent extremes of either side, whereas most people flop about somewhere in the middles of it all.

Is the new Craven an economic conservative or a social conservative? This is slightly important. If he's an economic conservative...well, I'll argue with him. If he's a social conservative, I'll not bother arguing. Social conservatives, like our friend Bill Bennett, are big on proscriptive statements (you ought to live your life this way, and I know better than you what is good for you). Not worth arguing.

As he became Secular Conservative Craven only today, I bet he is an economic Conservative.

I think I was just biased.

Yep. I was.

One big complaint I have is that I get labeled as a conservative due to my positions on some issues, when many of my personal positions are anything but "conservative".

Blatham,

due to the fact that many of my non experimental opinions are being interpreted as transitive and conservative I'm ending my experiment.

It was interesting.

Oh - must have been time for a group hug then.....ready, aim, FIRE!


((((((((((((((((((((((((Group Hug))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))




heehee

(((((((((((((((((((((CRAVEN))))))))))))))))))))))))

<Craven sputters, staggering....knocks over all the beer bottles......"Aaack," he gasps, "I hate that damn huggy stuff....Kryptonite!">

The dark shadowy figures note his weakness, and plot against him.

(((((((((((((((((((GROUP HUG)))))))))))))))))))))))

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

craven

Good experiment, but tough to pull off here. You are very resilient in your ideas already, and I noticed this caused some confusion as folks on this thread (and even other threads) would sometimes be uncertain what you were up to.

None of us, I'm sure, is comfortable thinking we might be a bit blind in our values and ideas, or that our deeply held convictions and principles are sometimes a matter of family or cultural bequeathment.

As these political discussions have evolved, particularly in the crucible of the Iraq War, and what has come to be referred to as 'the bush policy' (unilateral pre-emptive war) I have noted that the positions I tend to argue are really very much of the same coloration as my mother's cultural heritage (Mennonite) which I thought was not terribly influential in my makeup.

Likewise, my father was a union organizer, and though he and I used to argue ferociously, I can't deny that my notions of egalitarianism and my great distaste for inequity are not unlike his own.

In others, I see such tendencies too... the fellows here (mainly fellas) who come from military families, commonly have a world view which I think they would share with their parents far more than they would with my parents.

It's a tough problem, this recognizing bias in oneself. And equally tough ridding oneself of it. Over my lifetime, I've swung around a bit in viewpoints and assumptions, and I tend to be pretty certain at any point in time, that I'm at least close to being right. Time for a poem, Thistles, by Ted Hughes...

Against the rubber tongues of cows and the hoeing hands of men
Thistles spike the summer air
And crackle open under a blue-black pressure.

Every one a revengeful burst
Of resurrection, a grasped fistful
Of splintered weapons and Icelandic frost thrust up

From the underground stain of a decayed Viking.
They are like pale hair and the gutturals of dialects.
Every one manages a plume of blood.

Then they grow grey like men.
Mown down, it is a feud. Their sons appear
Stiff with weapons, fighting back over the same ground.

Bravo, blatham.