Candidone- Here is the latest about the AlQaeda "wanna-bes" in Canada--
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More Arrests Likely in Canadian Probe
By BETH DUFF-BROWN and ROB GILLIES, Associated Press Writers
4 hours ago
TORONTO - Police said Monday more arrests are likely in an alleged plot to bomb buildings in Canada, while intelligence officers sought ties between the 17 suspects and Islamic terror cells in the United States and five other nations.
A court said authorities had charged all 12 adults arrested over the weekend with participating in a terrorist group. Other charges included importing weapons and planning a bombing. The charges against five minors were not made public.
The Parliament of Canada, in Ottawa, is believed to be among targets the group discussed. Toronto Mayor David Miller said CN Tower, a downtown landmark, and the city's subway were not targets as had been the speculated in local media, but declined to identify sites that were.
A Muslim prayer leader who knew the oldest suspect, 43-year-old Qayyum Abdul Jamal, told The Associated Press on Monday that Jamal's sermons at a storefront mosque were "filled with hate" against Canada.
Authorities said more arrests were expected, possibly this week, as police pursue leads about a group that they say was inspired by the violent ideology of the al-Qaida terror network.
"We've by no means finished this investigation," Mike McDonell, deputy commissioner for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, told AP. "In fact, you might look at it that, really, we're just starting with the arrests. We have a responsibility to follow every lead."
Although both Canadian and U.S. officials said over the weekend there was no indication the purported terror group had targets outside Ontario, McDonell told AP on Monday that there are "foreign connections," but he would not elaborate.
In Washington, a spokesman for the National Security Council at the White House, said President Bush spoke with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper about the case Monday afternoon, but gave no specifics of what was discussed.
"Prime Minister Harper called the president to update him on the situation involving the arrest of 17 individuals in Toronto who are charged with terrorism-related offenses," spokesman Frederick Jones said.
Responding to the arrests, the U.S. Border Patrol stepped up vigorous inspections of traffic entering the country from Canada and put agents on overtime on high alert along the 4,000-mile border, Border Patrol Chief David Aguilar told reporters in Washington on Monday.
A U.S. law enforcement official said investigators were looking for connections between those detained in Canada and suspected Islamic militants held in the United States, Britain, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Denmark and Sweden.
American authorities have established that two men from Georgia who were charged this year in a terrorism case had been in contact with some of the Canadian suspects via computer, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing.
Prosecutors have said the Georgia men, Ehsanul Islam Sadequee and Syed Haris Ahmed, traveled to Washington to shoot "casing videos" of the Capitol and other potential targets.
Sadequee, 19, a U.S. citizen who grew up near Atlanta, is accused of lying to federal authorities during an FBI terrorism investigation. Ahmed, 21, a Georgia Tech student, faces a charge he provided material support and resources for terrorism.
In Atlanta, Ahmed's lawyer, Jack Martin, told AP there may have been some connection between his client and the suspects, but he insisted it wasn't part of any terrorism plot.
"Other than having the possibility that they may have met at some point, I know of no indication that anyone believes my client had anything to do with what these guys were up to," Martin said.
A U.S. counterterrorism official said the 17 suspects in Canada are an example of a type of group that authorities have been concerned about for some time: self-organized, ad hoc cells of homegrown extremists, a development first seen in Britain.
The official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said Canada's government rightfully considered the 17 a serious threat because there was evidence the group was far along in planning attacks.
"It came to a point where our concern for the safety and security of the public far outweighed our appetite for collecting evidence," said McDonell, the RCMP deputy commissioner.
The U.S. counterterrorism official added there was no reason to believe the group had U.S. targets in mind, but also no reason to exclude the potential.
Canadian police say there is no evidence the suspect group had ties to al-Qaida, but describe its members as being sympathetic to jihadist ideology. Officials are concerned that many of the 17 suspects were roughly 20 years old and had been radicalized in a short amount of time.
The Ontario Court of Justice released details of the charges faced by the 12 adult men arrested Friday and Saturday. The men are scheduled to appear in court Tuesday for a bail hearing.
Each is charged with one count of participating in a terrorist group.
Three of them _ Fahim Ahmad, 21, Mohammed Dirie, 22, and Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24 _ also are charged with importing weapons and ammunition for the purpose of terrorist activity.
Nine face charges of receiving training from a terrorist group, while four are charged with providing training. Six also are charged with intending to cause an explosion that could cause serious bodily harm or death.
No information was released on the five young males arrested due to federal privacy laws that protect minors.
Canadian media have reported that the suspects attended a training camp in Washago, a rural community 90 north of Toronto. The National Post quoted unidentified residents in the wooded area as saying they heard machine-gun fire and saw men dressed in camouflage carrying equipment.
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police displayed evidence Saturday that included camouflage uniforms, flashlights, walkie-talkies and detonators, but have refused to confirm whether they were used at a training facility.
Officials announced Saturday that the suspects were arrested after the group acquired three tons of ammonium nitrate, which can be mixed with fuel oil to make a powerful explosive. One-third that amount was used in the deadly bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995.
The Toronto Star reported that undercover Mounties delivered the substance to the group in a sting operation. The Star, citing unidentified sources, said the suspects actually received a harmless substance.
Some people who know the suspects said they were astonished by the arrests.
But Faheem Bukhari, a director of the Mississauga Muslim Community Center, said Jamal, the oldest suspect, had taken to giving hateful sermons and preaching intolerance to young Muslims at a small storefront mosque in Mississauga, a city near Toronto where six of the suspects lived.
"These youth were very fun-loving guys, soccer-loving guys, and then all of sudden they were not associating with guys they used to," Bukhari told AP, referring to some of the younger suspects.
He said Jamal once told "the audience that the Canadian Forces were going to Afghanistan to rape women."
Canada has about 2,300 soldiers in southern Afghanistan to bolster Afghan reconstruction and combat Taliban militants.
Bukhari's description contrasted with the view of another prayer leader at the mosque, who said while Jamal was "aggressive" in his sermons but never promoted hatred or violence.
"I will say that they were steadfast, religious people. There's no doubt about it. But here we always preach peace and moderation," Qamrul Khanson said Sunday.
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Note- Candidone, they were looking at the Capital as a target!
Bernard, this is turning into another Iraq thread. I am just as guilty of doing it as anyone else. If you want to take it up again, I will respond to your post on the Iraq thread.
Back on point
EU's Solana Gives Iran the World's Incentives for Curbing Its Nuclear Program
Quote:TEHRAN, Iran -- A package of incentives that represents a major initiative by world powers to persuade Iran to curb its nuclear program contains "positive steps" but also some "ambiguities," the country's top nuclear negotiator said Tuesday.
Speaking on state television after receiving the proposals from EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana, Ali Larijani called the meeting with Solana "constructive" and said Iran would respond after studying the incentives.
"The proposals contain positive steps and also some ambiguities," Larijani said, adding that more talks were needed.
"We hope we will have negotiations and deliberations again after we have carefully studied the proposals," he said.
The incentives were agreed on by the five veto-wielding members of the U.N. Security Council -- the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China -- and Germany at a meeting in Vienna on Friday.
BernardR wrote:Note- Candidone, they were looking at the Capital as a target!
Toronto is not the capital of Canada--Ottawa is the capital of Canada. The RCMP has stated that the targets would be in southern Ontario--most likely Toronto and/or Mississauga (those arrested are associated with a mosque in Mississauga). Ottawa is in eastern Ontario, not southern Ontario. There is no evidence which has been announced to date to suggest that Ottawa was to have been a target.
You do your rant no favor by such inaccuracies.
I must point out that my "rant" is not my "rant". I replicated an AP report by Brown and Gillies. Please read it again.
The fact is that there are Islamo-fascists in Canada and due to good work by the Canadian authorites, they were stopped from killing people indiscriminately.
I will repeat,I hope and pray it never happens in Canada or, indeed anywhere else, but if it did, God forbid, the mind set in Canada would change instantaneously.
You see, when 3,000 of your innocent fellow citizens are killed by murderous Islamo-fascist savages without warning, it makes you want Justice.
BernardR wrote:Note- Candidone, they were looking at the Capital as a target
Just a reminder of what you
said, rant or no rant.
You stand corrected.
I accept your correction,now, review the article to see if some of the corrections are not indeed needed in the AP article. You see, Candidone, I agree that people who are not natives of a country can make mistakes about that country. I can and have made mistakes about Canada--Not very many but I have made some mistakes.
Please accept the fact that you have and will make mistakes about the USA.
I'm not the pompous character who claims intellectual superiority in every thread I enter.
I understand that I make mistakes....it's just probably a harder pill for you to swallow.
Just curious, Candidone, what mistakes do you acknowledge making about the United States government? What, if anything, can you say good about the current Adminsitation?
I am unaware that I claimed "intellectual superiority" , Mr. Candidone. Would you be so good as to point out the posts in which I did so?
Thank you, sir!!
oralloy wrote:
My position though is as before: if diplomacy fails to stop them, as I expect it will, our response should be to ditch the Non-Proliferation Treaty and give Israel the capacity to build a nuclear arsenal as sophisticated as that of France or the UK.
If we really do have to take military action against Iran though, a ground invasion to seize the bunkers and blow them up from the inside would be far more preferable than dropping that fallout bomb and contaminating all of southern Asia.
your interjection always welcome oralloy. A couple of points
Israel already has submarines with nuclear capable cruise missiles. I'm no expert but I would say their ability to launch a nuclear strike is already on a par with that of Britain or France. (Actually only France, Britain has no independent nuclear capability).
Second there really is no military option against Iran. There
could have been (not that I would favour it) had USUK strike against Iraq been a success, but being bogged down there, to launch a war against Iran is sheer lunacy. One might as well go the "whole hog" and attack North Korea and China too. I dont think the idea of a raid on Iran to capture and destroy its nuclear facilities would end up with anything but a large number of allied dead wounded and pows.
Proposal Would Let Iran Enrich Uranium
Quote:TEHRAN, June 6 -- The confidential diplomatic package backed by Washington and formally presented to Iran on Tuesday leaves open the possibility that Tehran will be able to enrich uranium on its own soil, U.S. and European officials said.
That concession, along with a promise of U.S. assistance for an Iranian civilian nuclear energy program, is conditioned on Tehran suspending its current nuclear work until the U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency determines with confidence that the program is peaceful. U.S. officials said Iran would also need to satisfy the U.N. Security Council that it is not seeking a nuclear weapon, a benchmark that White House officials believe could take years, if not decades, to achieve.
But the Bush administration and its European allies have withdrawn their demand that Iran abandon any hope of enriching uranium for nuclear power, according to several European and U.S. officials with knowledge of the offer. The new position, which has not been acknowledged publicly by the White House, differs significantly from the Bush administration's stated determination to prevent Iran from mastering technology that could be used to develop nuclear weapons.
I am not hearing too much about this from anyone, I am not sure what to make of it yet except at least it's good that there is talk and negotiations.
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:oralloy wrote:
My position though is as before: if diplomacy fails to stop them, as I expect it will, our response should be to ditch the Non-Proliferation Treaty and give Israel the capacity to build a nuclear arsenal as sophisticated as that of France or the UK.
If we really do have to take military action against Iran though, a ground invasion to seize the bunkers and blow them up from the inside would be far more preferable than dropping that fallout bomb and contaminating all of southern Asia.
your interjection always welcome oralloy. A couple of points
Israel already has submarines with nuclear capable cruise missiles. I'm no expert but I would say their ability to launch a nuclear strike is already on a par with that of Britain or France. (Actually only France, Britain has no independent nuclear capability).
Second there really is no military option against Iran. There
could have been (not that I would favour it) had USUK strike against Iraq been a success, but being bogged down there, to launch a war against Iran is sheer lunacy. One might as well go the "whole hog" and attack North Korea and China too. I dont think the idea of a raid on Iran to capture and destroy its nuclear facilities would end up with anything but a large number of allied dead wounded and pows.
I'm no expert either, but I know what I see. I remember seeing all the hype about how fearsome Iraq's army was in the leadup to us attacking them. I remember the wails about "massive" casualties should we attack. Well, we know that didn't happen and we pretty much blew through them like they weren't there.
Plus, we've spent the past couple of years training the Iraqi armed forces and our guys are not only saying they're pretty good, they're willing to carry water for them while they do the heavy lifting. (We also have a humongous air base minute's from Iran).
Iran's crazy mullahs are doubtless wondering and worrying if the new Iraqi Army is really fit to be mentioned in the same sentence as American forces - worried that if the Iraqis really are that competent, what's going to happen if they decide to come to Iran again.
I know conventional wisdom says that we're stretched too thin, but it's my opinion that if the U.S. really was imperialist, we could own the Middle East in a year or less, and if the Iraqis can manage even 10% of American competence, there's no force outside the IDF that could stand against them.
Voice of America
US compromises, will allow Iran to convert uranium
Jerusalem Post - 3 hours ago
World powers have compromised on a demand that Iran commit to a long-term moratorium on uranium enrichment and are asking only for suspension during talks on Tehran's nuclear program, diplomats said Wednesday. ...
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572633227&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
... and the point of the continued negotiations with Iran is to convince them to abandon their nuclear weapons program. If Iran continues its nuclear weapons programs presumably the moratorium granted would be lifted.
I think the greatest likelihood is that the UN will do its usual ineffective jawing and Iran will increase the tempo of their weapons program. In the end, in frustration, the UN will try some sort of mild sanctions that will go nowhere. No overt military actions will be taken by anyone, and after awhile Iran will conduct one or more nuclear weapons tests in their great outback. The world will again be atwitter. The President in Washington will be accused of "letting it happen", even though he was elected long after the window of opportunity to close down the Iranian program was closed. The most partisan opposition will continue to claim that Iran is only "defending itself" against an imperial Republican conspiracy to conquer the world. That may not last long, because I believe that Iran will almost immediately begin threatening and blackmailing its neighbors into adopting the most conservative interpretations of the Koran. With nuclear weapons, I expect that the rhetoric calling for an all out Holy War against Israel and The Great Satan will get much more strident.
If the situation in Southwest Asia doesn't significantly change, what are the probabilities that a nuclear device originating in Iran will be expended within five years of the first Iranian nuclear weapons tests? I'm glad I live in New Mexico.
Asherman wrote:Just curious, Candidone, what mistakes do you acknowledge making about the United States government? What, if anything, can you say good about the current Adminsitation?
What mistakes do I acknowledge making about the administration?
I acknowledge them as I make them....it's not something I log.
Sorry.
Aside from his penchant for referring to everything in terms of "good" and "evil", I greatly admire and respect the bill he recently signed to combat human trafficking, teenage and child prostitution specifically.
Quote:(AP) President Bush signed a bill Tuesday to combat human trafficking, saying thousands of teenagers and young girls are brought to the United States each year and "forced to submit to unspeakable evil."
Source
I think it is good to have taken illegal immigration seriously, but I think he needs to target more the corporations who employ them.
I like the Energy Policy Act. I think it's a step in the right direction.
But his position re: Clean Air is somewhat contradictory.
I'm not a big fan of this administration. Clearly, I am ideologically in opposition to many of Bush's initiatives...
Thank you Candidone for acknowledging that this President, this administration does occasionally do something you approve of. That greatly strengthens your credibility with me, if no one else. Had I seen your acknowledgement of making mistakes and accepting the possibility that you might be wrong it would have made a difference in my perception of your position.
I am not as bright as Mr. Parados, Mr. Candidone. What is wrong with telling the truth? Mr. Parados is able to make complex pronouncements about WMD's without referral to evidence. I can't do that. That requires a massive intellect.
And, please, Mr. Candidone, my referral to a deeper cache of specific evidence only illustrates what I long have known--that I need references to make points.
If I were truly brilliant, I could go on and on as the truly erudite Mr. Setanta does, barely stopping for breath with nary a link while he outlines for us the History of Western Civilization.
No, Mr. Candidone, I am afraid you have misjudged me, I have a fairly large library at hand but I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to, am but an attendant lord, one that will do to swell a progress, start a scene or two, Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool, deferential, glad to be of use. politic,cautious, meticulous full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse.
(The last paragraph with apologies to TS Eliot for its truncation)
However, I am delighted that you have revealed to the learned Mr. Ash, your acceptance of some of the initiatives of President Bush. There is yet hope for you. I do pray that time will help you to achieve an insight that more of the President's ideas are indeed laudable.
Will Bushie now declare victory and walk away allowing Iran to enrich uranium?
