Iran Air Strikes Growing in Probability

From my perspective, the secrecy of the program is proof enough.

oralloy wrote:

Such as?

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/ap-report.html

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/isrlindx.htm

oralloy wrote:

Nuclear weapons in the hands of Iran would count as a real threat.

They don't have nuclear weapons yet and they say that they don't intend to. Saying so otherwise is merely conjecture.

oralloy wrote:

From my perspective, the secrecy of the program is proof enough.

You're entitled to your opinion. And to your perspective as well.

(Nevermind what the law says. If you have a different perspective, that's all that counts.)

Good. So, if sanctions are blocked...

Setanta wrote:

oralloy wrote:

Setanta wrote:

oralloy wrote:

Setanta wrote:

oralloy wrote:

Regarding Israel, if the world fails to prevent Iran from gaining nukes, we should ditch the NPT and give direct aid to Israel's nuclear program, to make sure Iran has a strong deterrent against attacking Israel.

Why? Isreal has no special claim on our protection and aid. Do you assert that we should give such aid to any state which can make a claim upon our beneficence?

Israel is our friend and ally. We should always aid our friends and allies when they are threatened.

Afghanistan is also our friend and ally. The United Arab Emirates are also our friends and allies. Kuwait is our friend and ally. One assumes that at least by policy, Iraq is our friend and ally. Saudia Arabia is also our friend and ally. Jordan is at least theoretically our friend, if not actually our ally. Turkey is our friend and is our ally by treaty, as a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. All of those nations could be seriously harmed by unilateral American action on behalf of Israel which were based upon a putative and undemostrated threat from the Persians.

Would they be harmed if we ditched the NPT and gave massive aid to Israel's nuclear arsenal?

I couldn't say that they would, although it is likely that they might consider that it entailed an unacceptable threat. I don't consider that you've offered good reason for that course of action.

The reason is so that Israel will have a sound nuclear deterrent against Iran.

Doesn't apply here. Hitler's policies resulted in 6 million Jews being exterminated and that nutjob in Iran wants to finish what Hitler started.

You either don't believe the reality of the Holocaust, or you missed Ahmadinejad's declaration that Israel must be destroyed.

If Iran gains nuclear weapons, history doesn't end there. In the coming years, other countries will seek them too, and some fraction of these countries will be unstable, or dictatorships, or friends to terrorists. This is a trend, not an isolated incident.

Someday a point will be reached where enough unstable countries have nuclear weapons to create a very dangerous situation, where the risk that someone will use them is quite real. Better to do something about it now, rather than later when every tin plated dictorship has a nuclear arsenal.

Jordan king: Israel must disarm nukes

Abdullah tells Spanish paper El Pais Jordan interested in nuclear-free Middle East, says Israel must disarm its nuclear weapons. If peace is achieved, Israel will not need such arms, King states
Dudi Cohen

Jordanian King Abdullah said his country is interested in a nuclear-free Middle East and urged the international community to pressure Israel to dismantle its nuclear arsenal.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3243110,00.html

Godwin's Law...

Brandon9000 wrote:

If Iran gains nuclear weapons, history doesn't end there. In the coming years, other countries will seek them too, and some fraction of these countries will be unstable, or dictatorships, or friends to terrorists. This is a trend, not an isolated incident.

Someday a point will be reached where enough unstable countries have nuclear weapons to create a very dangerous situation, where the risk that someone will use them is quite real. Better to do something about it now, rather than later when every tin plated dictorship has a nuclear arsenal.

If you're so concerned about nukes, then how about a nuclear-free Middle East ?

Quote:

Jordan king: Israel must disarm nukes

Abdullah tells Spanish paper El Pais Jordan interested in nuclear-free Middle East, says Israel must disarm its nuclear weapons. If peace is achieved, Israel will not need such arms, King states
Dudi Cohen

Jordanian King Abdullah said his country is interested in a nuclear-free Middle East and urged the international community to pressure Israel to dismantle its nuclear arsenal.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3243110,00.html

Universal disarmament would be nice, but its probably unachievable now

oralloy wrote:

Setanta wrote:

oralloy wrote:

Setanta wrote:

oralloy wrote:

Setanta wrote:

oralloy wrote:

Regarding Israel, if the world fails to prevent Iran from gaining nukes, we should ditch the NPT and give direct aid to Israel's nuclear program, to make sure Iran has a strong deterrent against attacking Israel.

Why? Isreal has no special claim on our protection and aid. Do you assert that we should give such aid to any state which can make a claim upon our beneficence?

Israel is our friend and ally. We should always aid our friends and allies when they are threatened.

Afghanistan is also our friend and ally. The United Arab Emirates are also our friends and allies. Kuwait is our friend and ally. One assumes that at least by policy, Iraq is our friend and ally. Saudia Arabia is also our friend and ally. Jordan is at least theoretically our friend, if not actually our ally. Turkey is our friend and is our ally by treaty, as a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. All of those nations could be seriously harmed by unilateral American action on behalf of Israel which were based upon a putative and undemostrated threat from the Persians.

Would they be harmed if we ditched the NPT and gave massive aid to Israel's nuclear arsenal?

I couldn't say that they would, although it is likely that they might consider that it entailed an unacceptable threat. I don't consider that you've offered good reason for that course of action.

The reason is so that Israel will have a sound nuclear deterrent against Iran.

Were we to scrap the NPT and aid an Israeli nuke program, there is just as much reason to offer the same assistance to Afghanistan, Iraq, The United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Turkey as a deterrent to Israel and Iran. You continue to indulge in special pleading on behalf of Israel.

Brandon9000

Quote:

Universal disarmament would be nice, but its probably unachievable now

How would you know if the U.S/UN have never attempted to achieve it, rather helped and encouraged Israel ?

What kind of message does that give out ?

Are you suggesting that the US should not have a different foriegn policy for evey country, but rather some sort of generic thing?

SierraSong wrote:

Doesn't apply here. Hitler's policies resulted in 6 million Jews being exterminated and that nutjob in Iran wants to finish what Hitler started.

You either don't believe the reality of the Holocaust, or you missed Ahmadinejad's declaration that Israel must be destroyed.

Although I'm not Jewish, I did find (as I'm sure many Jews would) your caricature tasteless. How long have you been a skinhead? Is Aryan Nation satisfying your need to feed on hate and bile?

I see you've managed to convince some of your friends and cohorts to come here and post their nonsense, as well.

McGentrix wrote:

Are you suggesting that the US should not have a different foriegn policy for evey country, but rather some sort of generic thing?

This is a typical witless McG attempt to jump into someone else's conversation and inject a sneer. Oralloy stated that we should scrap the NPT and aid Isreal. I asked why. He said they were our friend and ally. I responded that these other nations are as well. He continues his special pleading for Isreal, so i point out that we should extend the same policy to our other freinds and allies.

So, McG, if your response is more than just a flannel-mouthed sneer, perhaps you could explain why Israel should be entitled to a special consideration which we would not extend to our other friends and allies in the middle east, especially Turkey, which is a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization--a treaty relationship with us which Israel does not enjoy.

Put up or shut up, McG--why should Israel be subject to special treatment?