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Iran Air Strikes Growing in Probability

 
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 08:07 pm
All of you saying that Bush wants to inveade Iran,or that he wants to bomb Iran,I have a question...

If none of that happens,will all of you be adult enough to admit you were wrong,or will you deny saying it would happen to begin with?


Personally,I think all of you will say you never said it would happen.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 08:14 pm
As you can easily see, most of us said what we think may happen, but not what will happen.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 08:15 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
As you can easily see, most of us said what we think may happen, but not what will happen.


You didnt answer my question
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 08:21 pm
Since I didn't say it will happen before the fact, what would I be denying?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 08:28 pm
We just have to watch and wait




The above words are what you are asking me if I will deny in the event there is no attack. Come on, man, ask me a better question than that.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 06:19 am
Lets just for a moment consider what might happen if in fact we did strike a nuke at Iran. Would it just knock out their nukes under ground or would it hurt/kill people or would miss entirely and start a ground war?

Iran attack debate raises nuclear prospect

Quote:
Nuclear option problems

But a nuclear attack is improbable.

There are three main reasons of military and diplomatic importance for this.


The first is that even a nuclear "bunker-buster" would produce large amounts of radiation. This could cause thousands of casualties among civilian populations.

The Federation of American Scientists says that "the bombs would penetrate at most only a few metres into rock, causing no reduction in blast, fire, or fallout damage on the surface. The largest would have blown out a crater almost a thousand feet across and thrown a cloud of radioactive fallout tens of thousands of feet into the air where it would be blown hundreds of miles downwind."


The second is that the political implications are so huge of the US attacking, with nuclear weapons, a country (and in the Muslim world) which is not armed with similar weapons and which says it has no intention of making.

The third reason is that, doctrinally, the US is moving away from developing new nuclear bunker busters. It does have one already, the B61-11, but it cannot penetrate very deeply and last year Congress withdrew, at the administration's request, funding for further research.

Legality issue

There is also the question of legality to be considered.

Any attack would be hard to justify. Jack Straw told reporters recently: "I don't happen to believe that military action has a role to play in any event. We could not justify it under Article 51 of the UN charter which permits self-defence."

In the absence of Security Council approval, the US might argue that its interests in the Gulf were at stake and that its ally Israel was at risk.


Conventional bombs

Instead of nuclear bombs, conventional weapons would be used, but of a massive type. They would try to do a similar job, but without the same physical and political fallout. One called "Big Blu" is currently under development.

Hersh also said, in both articles, that the US had infiltrated agents into Iran to pick targets and make contacts with dissident groups.


One reading of the White House attitude is that it wants to scare Iran into making concessions and wants in any case to foment political unrest. This it hopes might eventually produce policy change by producing regime change. Hersh says that Washington regards President Ahmadinejad as a "potential Adolf Hitler."


US threats

What nobody doubts is that the US is determined to stop Iran from become nuclear-armed.


Iran says it will not build a bomb but wants the technology only to make fuel for civil nuclear power. It is allowed to make its own fuel under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).



However, the dilemma might be more difficult than that because Iran might not become "nuclear-armed". It might simply become nuclear-capable.


The technology in question can be used for both civilian and military purposes.

Consequences


If attacked, Iran might simply leave the NPT, as it has the right to do, and go ahead with nuclear development anyway. That could set the scene for further attacks over a long period of time.


Iran might also retaliate, against US interests in Iraq and the Gulf, and might use the militant group Hezbollah in southern Lebanon to attack Israel. The region could be in uproar.


On this side of the Atlantic, Dan Plesch, Research Associate at the London School of Oriental and African Studies, is proclaiming the same message.

He gave a speech analysing the options recently and told the BBC News website: "The United States has the capability to come out of the clear blue sky and destroy the Iranian military infrastructure."
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 06:28 am
mysteryman wrote:
All of you saying that Bush wants to inveade Iran,or that he wants to bomb Iran,I have a question...

If none of that happens,will all of you be adult enough to admit you were wrong,or will you deny saying it would happen to begin with?


Personally,I think all of you will say you never said it would happen.


Please direct me to those posts in which members state that he or she thinks that Bush will, indeed, bomb or invade Iran. Personally, I am hoping that he won't. And guessing that he won't, he is a madman but there are sane people in the military and Condaleezza Rice might hold him and madmen Cheney and Rumsfeld in check.

I would still like to get a confirmation or denial from the gubmint concerning troops already being on the ground in Iran.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 06:29 am
http://i2.tinypic.com/vfil1z.jpg

Chcago Tribune, Friday April 14, 2006, page 11.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 06:56 am
It's too bad Reagan didn't have the balls to just glass over this garbage dump after the hostages were freed.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 08:38 am
cjhsa wrote:
It's too bad Reagan didn't have the balls to just glass over this garbage dump after the hostages were freed.


You are kidding, right?

Reagan??? Who cut and run after the Lebanon bombing??? That Reagan? April Fools Day was on the first.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 09:13 am
Debra_Law wrote:
Rice is indeed demanding that the U.N. threaten force thus giving Iran "no choice" but to discontinue its nuclear energy program:

Rice says U.N. must adopt tough Iran resolution

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said on Thursday the United Nations must consider strong action against Iran, such as a resolution that could lead to sanctions or lay the groundwork for force.

Asked what options the U.N. Security Council should consider, Rice said it should look at chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter to force Iran to comply with international obligations over its nuclear plans.

"I am certain we will look at measures that can be taken to ensure that Iran knows that they really have no choice but to comply," Rice told reporters.

Chapter 7 makes a resolution mandatory under international law for all U.N. members. It can lead to sanctions and eventually the use of force if it specifically calls for them or threatens "all necessary measures."


Chap. 7 can "lead to sanction and eventually the use of force."

Don't get me wrong, the UN ought to threaten Iran with force, but it won't. It might pass a Ch. 7 resolution (which Rice demanded), but I don't see it ever threatening force. The closest it will get is to threaten the threat of "all necessary measures," but it will always want to give Iran another chance to comply. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 09:27 am
From all accounts, tico, Iran is a long way off from producing nuclear weapons even if it does really have intentions of producing them, which it claims it does not. Why are you and other like you always in such a hurry to kill and destroy people that you can't give peaceful and political means a chance? Even a lot of your republicans are saying a military solution to Iran would be a mistake as previous links have already been left in this thread have indicated.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 09:28 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Interestingly US-media report that "Rice calls for 'some consequence' against Iran's nuclear intentions" (or with similar headline), while European papers report about the same event like "Rice demands UN should threaten Iran with 'force of arms'."


Well, since Rice made no such demand, it appears "European papers" are not accurate.


Rice indeed demanded that the UN threaten Iran with the use of force. Accordingly, the "European papers" were accurate.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 09:41 am
Debra_Law wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Interestingly US-media report that "Rice calls for 'some consequence' against Iran's nuclear intentions" (or with similar headline), while European papers report about the same event like "Rice demands UN should threaten Iran with 'force of arms'."


Well, since Rice made no such demand, it appears "European papers" are not accurate.


Rice indeed demanded that the UN threaten Iran with the use of force. Accordingly, the "European papers" were accurate.


Fine, DL ... show me the quote please.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 09:52 am
revel wrote:
From all accounts, tico, Iran is a long way off from producing nuclear weapons even if it does really have intentions of producing them, which it claims it does not. Why are you and other like you always in such a hurry to kill and destroy people that you can't give peaceful and political means a chance? Even a lot of your republicans are saying a military solution to Iran would be a mistake as previous links have already been left in this thread have indicated.


I take issue with your "hurry to kill and destroy people" remark. I believe Iran is a threat with nuclear weapons, unlike you and others like you, and I believe they should be prevented -- by use of force if necessary -- from obtaining them, unlike you and others like you. It was reported yesterday that Iran will ignore the UN's request to to suspend its uranium enrichment program, and instead they indicate they are going to increase their enrichment program. Thus, they are ignoring the "international community, the opinion of which you and others like you, hold so dear. Remember, at some point N. Korea was a "long way off" as well.

And show me where I have said I don't want to give peaceful, political, or diplomatic means a chance.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 09:56 am
Diplomatic means sounds good, keeping in mind that these are a people with so fine a regard for diplomatic means as to capture a foreign embassy and hold the staff hostage.

I know. I know. They were students and thus outside the control of the government. Sure.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 09:57 am
revel wrote:
From all accounts, tico, Iran is a long way off from producing nuclear weapons even if it does really have intentions of producing them, which it claims it does not. Why are you and other like you always in such a hurry to kill and destroy people that you can't give peaceful and political means a chance? Even a lot of your republicans are saying a military solution to Iran would be a mistake as previous links have already been left in this thread have indicated.

We are giving peaceful techniques a chance. However, if, indeed, Iran is working hard to get The Bomb as soon as possible, there will be a finite window of opportunity to stop them, and it would be foolish to wait until we estimate that maybe they have a couple of more years to completion, At what point would you be willing to invade to stop a significant probability of an Iran with atomic bombs?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 09:57 am
Quote:
Iran president: Israel a threat to Islamic nations

TEHRAN, Iran (Reuters) -- Iran's president said on Friday that the existence of the "Zionist regime", Iran's term for Israel, was a threat to the Islamic world, days after declaring Iran had become a nuclear power by enriching uranium.

But the tone of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's speech to a conference on the Palestinian issue was slightly more moderate than fiery rhetoric last year, when Iran's official IRNA news agency quoted him as telling a conference: "Israel must be wiped off the map."

...
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 10:26 am
"We are governed by Islamic nutcases.
We practice Sharia law.
We believe Israel and the U.S. should be anihilated.
We have nuclear capability..."

Case closed. By any means necessary.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 11:01 am
cjhsa
I would also note that they are also looking to the Islamization of the entire world. Europe is their next target. And in fact has already begun.
0 Replies
 
 

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