50
   

What should be done about illegal immigration?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 06:37 am
From the TEXAS GOP 2006 Program (page 27, 28):


Quote:
Illegal Immigration - No amnesty! No how. No way.
With growing impatience, the American people in overwhelming numbers have asked our government to secure our borders. They now demand it and we as a party agree with the American people. Illegal aliens have, by definition, committed a criminal act. We oppose illegal immigration, amnesty in any form, or legal status for illegal immigrants. The American people remember the broken promises of 1986 and will not be misled again.
We support:
1. an immediate end to the current "catch and release" policy of Homeland Security;
2. stiffer fines, criminal penalties, and an aggressive enforcement policy for those who knowingly employ illegal workers; and
3. expeditious hearings on deporting non-violent illegal immigrants held in prisons or jails;
4. suspending automatic U.S. citizenship to children born to illegal immigrant parents;
5. elimination of federal funding to cities that have "sanctuary" laws prohibiting local police from identifying and reporting illegal immigrants to federal authorities;
6. empowering state and local law enforcement agencies with the authority, responsibility and resources needed to detain illegal immigrants within the course of their regular duties;
7. the rejection of non-verifiable foreign-issued cards, such as matricula consular as valid identification for official documentation purposes;
8. investigation and strict prosecution of agencies, businesses or persons involved in the production, distribution or acceptance of phony identification documents;
9. elimination of day labor work centers;
10. elimination of all laws requiring hospitals to give non-emergency medical care to illegal immigrants;
11. elimination of social security benefits or government funding to illegal immigrants for education, housing and business loans.
12. legislation to prevent any foreign country and/or its citizens from using the judicial system of the United States to gain entrance to the U.S.;
13. strong document verification prior to the issuance of a Texas drivers license to anyone;
14. the withholding of federal highway funds from any state that issues drivers licenses to illegal aliens;
15. aggressive prosecution of persons involved in smuggling humans across our borders.

Source
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 09:34 am
That's funny.

Any chance you can find a version of this in Spanish
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 09:37 am
ebrown_p wrote:
That's funny.

Any chance you can find a version of this in Spanish


That could only be an illegal translation :wink:

Quote:
American English - We support the immediate adoption of American English as the official language of Texas and of the United States of America. While encouraging fluency in additional languages by all citizens, no governmental entity shall require any agency, contractor, business, or individual to publish public documents in a language other than English.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 09:42 am
Quote:

That could only be an illegal translation.


I'll get right on it...
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 09:59 am
ebrown_p wrote:
Quote:

That could only be an illegal translation.


I'll get right on it...

good on you brown, keep up the good works.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 02:55 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
From the TEXAS GOP 2006 Program (page 27, 28):


Quote:
Illegal Immigration - No amnesty! No how. No way.
With growing impatience, the American people in overwhelming numbers have asked our government to secure our borders. They now demand it and we as a party agree with the American people. Illegal aliens have, by definition, committed a criminal act. We oppose illegal immigration, amnesty in any form, or legal status for illegal immigrants. The American people remember the broken promises of 1986 and will not be misled again.
We support:
1. an immediate end to the current "catch and release" policy of Homeland Security;
2. stiffer fines, criminal penalties, and an aggressive enforcement policy for those who knowingly employ illegal workers; and
3. expeditious hearings on deporting non-violent illegal immigrants held in prisons or jails;
4. suspending automatic U.S. citizenship to children born to illegal immigrant parents;
5. elimination of federal funding to cities that have "sanctuary" laws prohibiting local police from identifying and reporting illegal immigrants to federal authorities;
6. empowering state and local law enforcement agencies with the authority, responsibility and resources needed to detain illegal immigrants within the course of their regular duties;
7. the rejection of non-verifiable foreign-issued cards, such as matricula consular as valid identification for official documentation purposes;
8. investigation and strict prosecution of agencies, businesses or persons involved in the production, distribution or acceptance of phony identification documents;
9. elimination of day labor work centers;
10. elimination of all laws requiring hospitals to give non-emergency medical care to illegal immigrants;
11. elimination of social security benefits or government funding to illegal immigrants for education, housing and business loans.
12. legislation to prevent any foreign country and/or its citizens from using the judicial system of the United States to gain entrance to the U.S.;
13. strong document verification prior to the issuance of a Texas drivers license to anyone;
14. the withholding of federal highway funds from any state that issues drivers licenses to illegal aliens;
15. aggressive prosecution of persons involved in smuggling humans across our borders.

Source


I see no problem with any of this.

It punishes the people and cities that break our laws or encourage others to do so.
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 04:47 pm
Why can't compassion work? Well, it is really hard. One would guess it is asking too much from all those religious people...more interested in the law/punishment...

Building Opportunities for Self - Sufficiency

The injunction to respect others does not stand alone. Compassion is a necessary support in the call for Respect - the ability to feel for others and imagine what it would be like in their situation. It is one of the quirks of humanity that what we so dearly want for ourselves we too often deny to others. Compassion is the call to fight this internalized view of life and to extend to others what we wish them to extend to us.

http://www.self-sufficiency.org/goodheart.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 05:00 pm
Diane, Excellent post; compassion seems to be missing from many posters on this thread. NIMBY is a prevalent theme for christians and non-christians.

I'm now reading a book, "The Other Side of Israel" by Susan Nathan. The Jewish state is anything but a democracy, but the US continues to enforce the rhetoric that it is, and continues its support of Israel. It's a sad fact that Arabs are treated as second class citizens in Israel, and the Jewish state continues to take away lands from the Palestinians who have lived there for generations before the Jews.

The Palestinians suffer all forms of discrimination based on their culture.

The Israeli army destroys and kills Palestinians without the fear of any consequence by their superiors or government. What is not publicized are the many young people in the Israeli army that commit suicide (it's on the increase), because of the violence perpetrated against Palestinians for no reason at all. Some have a conscience.

It's really sad.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 05:08 pm
For those interested in reading a book review of "The Other Side of Israel." Click this.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 10:03 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:


The Israeli army destroys and kills Palestinians without the fear of any consequence by their superiors or government. ... because of the violence perpetrated against Palestinians for no reason at all.

It's really sad.


Why do you bother writting this dreck?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 10:24 pm
Because it's information most Americans are unaware of, and the story needs to be told.

It's dreck to you; it's a very sad situation for the Palestinians in Israel.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 10:49 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Because it's information most Americans are unaware of, and the story needs to be told.

It's dreck to you; it's a very sad situation for the Palestinians in Israel.


Perhaps if more of them rose up and put an end to the bombs on buses and market places they would garner more sympathy, but until their countrymen end the terrorism, there is no way anyone should expect Israel to tolerate it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 11:17 pm
McG, Your ignorance is showing; the Palestinians have no rights in Israel. They have no freedom.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 11:25 pm
Monday, November 15, 2004

Israeli Democracy Fact or Fiction?
by WILLIAM A. COOK
Israel's bulldozing of 62 shops in the village of Nazkt Issa, north of Tulkarem next to the West Bank line with Israel on Tuesday and its refusal to allow International and Israeli peace activists to witness the devastation illustrates the total control of the military in what is supposed to be a democratic state. Americans saw and heard little of this action except that it was caused by the illegal establishment of the shops by Palestinians. In a democratic state, the alleged "illegality" would be dealt with in a court of law, not by an army protecting bulldozers from citizens throwing stones. But Americans hear only what Sharon allows the corporate media in America to receive from his minions as he prevents outsiders from witnessing the demolition.
The impending Israeli elections and the plethora of commentary that touts Israel as the only bastion of Democracy in the mid-east warrants consideration of the truth of the claim in light of Tuesday's devastation. It would appear that the American public accepts the reality of Israel as a democratic state and finds comfort in its compatibility with American values. That comfort translates into approximately three billion dollars per year for Israel, more aid than any other country receives.
A true Democracy must meet two criteria: one philosophical that presents the logic of its argument in a declaration and/or constitution; the other practical that demonstrates how the Democracy implements legislation, distributes resources, and makes equitable all policies and procedures for all its citizens.
Democracy is first and foremost a concept, a philosophical understanding concerning the rights of humans relative to the government that acts in their name. A Democratic government serves through the manifest consent of the governed. That government receives its authority through the citizens in whom the right resides. Inherent in this philosophical understanding is the acceptance of the rights of all citizens that reside in a state: each and every citizen possesses the right to consent to the legitimacy of those who govern, and each and every citizen must receive equal treatment before the law.
For a state to claim a Democratic form of government, it must have an established geographic area accepted by other nations as legitimate and defined. The need for established borders is both obvious and necessary with necessity arising out of the obvious. Without borders, there can be no absolute determination of citizenry, and, therefore, no way to fulfill the establishment of the rights noted above. What has this to do with the Democratic state of Israel? Everything.
Israel has no accepted legitimate borders other than those provided to it by Resolution 181, according to Anthony D'Amato, Leighton Professor of Law at Northwestern University, in his brief "The Legal Boundaries of Israel in International Law": "The legal boundaries of Israel and Palestine were delimited in Resolution 181." Since the 1967 war, the borders of the current area controlled by Israel exceed those outlined by the UN in Resolution 181 of 1948 as the current incident in Nazkt Issa illustrates. Despite numerous resolutions from the UN demanding that Israel return to its proper borders, most especially Resolution 242, Israel defies the world body continuing to retain land illegally held. The reality of this dilemma is most manifest in the settlements. Here, Jews residing in Palestinian areas continue to vote while Palestinians literally surround them and cannot vote. Where is the state of Israel? A look at a map would make it appear that Israel has the spotted coloration of a Dalmatian. Clearly, those living under Israeli domination are not considered citizens of the state of Israel even though they reside within parameters controlled by Israel. Since they are not citizens of Israel, and since there is no Palestinian state, these people are without a country and, therefore, without rights; an untenable position for any group which is recognized as a distinct governing group by the UN through its election of the Palestinian Authority as its governing body. That election followed democratic procedures including the creation of a constitution and the international monitoring of the election process.
A Democratic state must declare the premises of its existence in a document or documents that present to the world the logic of its right to govern. That usually comes in the form of a constitution. Unlike the Palestinians, Israel has no constitution. Chuck Chriss, President of JIA writes, "Israel has no written constitution, unlike the United States and most other democracies. There was supposed to be one. The Proclamation of Independence of the State of Israel calls for the preparation of a constitution, but it was never done." It's been more than 50 years since that "call". Why has Israel demurred on the creation of a constitution? Both Chriss in his article and Daniel J. Elazar, writing in "The Constitution of the State of Israel," point to the same dilemma: how to reconcile the secular and religious forces in Israel. Elazar states: "Israel has been unable to adopt a constitution full blown, not because it does not share the new society understanding of constitution as fundamental law, but because of a conflict over what constitutes fundamental law within Israeli society. Many religious Jews hold that the only real constitution for a Jewish state is the Torah and the Jewish law that flows from it. They not only see no need for a modern secular constitution, but even see in such a document a threat to the supremacy of the Torah"
The consequences of this divide can be seen in the discrepencies that exist in practice in Israel. While "the State of Israel is described in the Proclamation of Independence as both a Jewish State and a democracy with equal rights for all its citizens," the Foundation Law of 1980 makes clear that Israeli courts "shall decide [a case] in the light of the principles of freedom, justice, equity and peace of Israel's heritage." Without a written constitution, Israel relies on a set of laws encased in Israel's heritage, "some blatantly racist in their assignment of privilege based on religion," according to Tarif Abboushi writing in CounterPunch in June of 2002. But the structure of Israel's governing process that depends on a Knesset is also flawed. According to Chriss, "Members of the Knesset are elected from lists proposed by the parties on a national basis. Following the election, the parties get to assign seats in the Knesset based on their proportion of the national vote, drawing from the party list.Thus, individual MKs owe allegiance to the party chiefs and not directly to the electorate." (Emphasis mine). He goes on to say, "This political system has resulted in some distortions in which Israeli law and government do not reflect the actual wishes of the voting population."
For a state to claim a Democratic form of government, it must accept the equality of all residents within its borders as legitimate citizens regardless of race, ethnicity, creed, religion, political belief, or gender. For a state to claim it is Democratic and reserve the rights of citizenship to a select group negates its claim. It is an oxymoron to limit citizenship rights to Jews alone and call the state Democratic. As Joel Kovel has stated in Tikkun, "a democracy that is only to be for a certain people cannot exist, for the elementary reason that the modern democratic state is defined by its claims of universality." Yet this inherent contradiction exists in Israel. And this brings us from the philosophical phase to the practical one.
Daniel Elazar, reflecting on this conundrum in the postmodern era, notes that this "makes it impossible for the State to distinguish between the entitlements of Jewish citizens and others based upon obligations and performance; i.e., more benefits if one does military service than if one does not."
How does Israel implement the Democracy it claims to possess? First, any Jew from anywhere in the world can come to Israel and receive citizenship by virtue of his/her Jewishness. By contrast, a Muslim or Christian Palestinian living in exile because of the 1948 war cannot claim citizenship even though they were indigenous to the area, nor can their descendents claim citizenship. Second, ninety percent of the land in Israel is held in restrictive covenants, land initially owned by Palestinians for the most part, covenants that bar non-Jews from ownership including the Palestinians who hold a limited version of Israeli citizenship. Third, Israeli citizens who are Muslim or Christian do not share the rights accorded Jews who serve in the military, nor do they receive the benefits extended to those who serve in the military. Non-Jews are taxed differently than Israeli citizens and the neighborhoods in which they live receive less support. As recently as June 12, 2002, Paul Martin writing for the Washington Times noted "Israeli Arabs are trying to strike down a new law reducing family benefits, arguing that it has deliberately been drafted in a way that will affect Arabs more harshly than Jews."
While Arabs constitute 20% of the population within Israel, their voice in government is limited. Recently, an "expert" working for the General Security Service submitted his "expert opinion" to the Central Election Committee that undertook to disqualify Azmi Bishara and other Arab MKs from taking part in the election. This action would have deprived the Arabs of a voice in the Knesset if it had not been overturned by the Israeli court. The reality of Israeli political parties virtually assures non-representation of the Palestinians in the governing process. Even with Bishara permitted to run, the voice of the Palestinians is muted. As Uri Avnery noted recently, "One glance at the poitical map shows that without the Arab votes, no left-wing coalition has any chance of forming a government ­ not today, nor in the forseeable futureThis means that without the Arabs, the Left cannot even dictate terms for its participation in a coalition dominated by the Right."
Perhaps the most graphic illustration of the non-democracy that exists in Israel comes from Human Rights Watch and the US State Department reports published in Jurist Law. The range of abuses listed by the State Department includes detainees beaten by police, poor prison conditions that did not meet international standards, detainees held without charge, holding of detainees as bargaining chips, refusal to allow access to Obeid by the Red Cross, imposition of heavier sentences on Arabs than Jews, interference with private rights, etc,, and finally, "Trafficking in women for the purpose of forced prostitution is a continuing problem."
Human Rights Watch offers a litany of abuses, many more serious than those proferred by the Department of State: Israel has maintained the "liquidation" policy targeting individuals without trial by jury, lack of investigations to determine responsibility for killings and shootings, increased use of heavy weaponry, including F-16 fighter jets etc. against "Palestinian police stations, security offices, prisons, and other installations." HRW also references the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the occupied Territories for the wanton killing of civilians by settlers. The listing is too extensive to offer in its totality here.
As I mentioned at the outset of this article, the American public hears constant reference to Israel as the only democratic nation in the mid-east. They receive little or no information about the accuracy of that statement. Yet Americans accept this administration's and past administrations' support of Israel in large measure because they believe that it reflects the ideals expressed in the American Constitution and they are willing to spend their tax dollars in support of those ideals. In reality, American democracy and Israeli democracy are decidedly distinct.
Democracy cannot exist in ignorance of policies, processes, and actions undertaken on behalf of the people including the refusal to admit citizens to areas like Nazkt Issa where non-democratic action exists. Silence by the peoples' representatives concerning reasons for actions taken in their name corrodes democracy. Americans have not been told, for example, that American authorities removed 8000 pages of information from the 12,000 provided by the Iraqi government to the UN Inspectors, according to former MP Anthony Wedgewood Benn in an interview on BBC January 12th , pages removed to protect corporations that provided Iraq with chemicals and other material that could be used to develop WMD. Die Tageszeitung, a Berlin Daily, reported the names of the corporations that acted with the government's approval through the '80s and up to 1991 supplying Saddam with nuclear, chemical, biological and missile technology. An extensive report on the chemicals sent to Iraq by the US was disclosed in the Sunday Herald by Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot, but received little press beyond this paper. How can the American people respond intelligently to the designs of this administration against Iraq without knowing how Iraq obtained its capability to develop WMD and the reasons for developing them?
Similarly, Israel cannot restrict its citizens, including peace activists, or its American supporters, from knowing how it acts relative to Palestinians by preventing reporters or activists from describing what is done in their name. Preventing the UN investigation of the Jenin "massacre" is only one example. Restricting journalists from occupied territory is another. Preventing Israeli and international peace activists from Nazkt Isa is the most recent.
While the founding fathers' verbalized the concepts and ideals that are the foundation of American Democracy in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, the full implementation of those ideals took many, many years to bring to fruition: a Civil War that freed slaves more than 70 years after the creation of the nation, Women's Rights more than 120 years after the founding, and the Civil Rights Acts of the '50s and '60s more than 150 years after its birth. That, however, is not a reason for Israel, or any nation moving toward a democratic status, to delay implementation of equal rights for all of their citizens; rather it is a demonstration of the necessity to introduce and ensure equity from the outset.
William Cook is a professor of English at the University of La Verne in southern California. His new book, Psalms for the 21st Century, will be published by Mellen Press in January. He can be reached at: [email protected]
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 11:27 pm
Only a small minority is continuing to fight, both for the rights of the Palestinian people and to stop Israel's transformation into a fundamentalist state that has shed its last democratic pretenses. Will this remnant be able to block Israeli society's rush to destruction, and stop the country from crashing into the wall of hatred around the world that Israelis are building with their own hands? The relationship of forces is not encouraging, and time is short.

Notes

* Israel has no constitution, however, the Meretz party managed to push through the adoption of several "fundamental laws," which are to a certain extent laws of a constitutional type.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jul, 2006 11:35 pm
From HAARETZ.COM:

Last update - 01:22 16/05/2003


Survey: Israel yet to grasp concept of democracy

By Mazal Mualem

More than half the Jewish population of Israel - 53 percent - is opposed to full equal rights for Israeli Arabs, according to a survey conducted last month by the Israel Democracy Institute.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jul, 2006 11:28 pm
Quote:
Labour shortage leaves Florida's oranges to rot

Associated Press in Lakeland
Monday July 10, 2006
The Guardian


Millions of oranges will rot on the trees of Florida this year because a shortage of fruitpickers has been aggravated by fears about more stringent US immigration laws, local media reported yesterday.
"There's very little doubt we'll leave a significant amount of fruit on the tree," Mike Carlton, the director of production and labour affairs at Florida Citrus Mutual, told the newspaper The Ledger. "Whether that's 3m boxes or 6m boxes, nobody can say."

Full report


We had had the similar here, when different regulations re Polish saisonal workers came into force - it will all sort out, the one or the other way.


It's a hot topic here in Europe as well, see this opinion in todayÄs The Guardian:
Barricades won't stop migration. We have to learn how to manage it
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 04:45 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
Labour shortage leaves Florida's oranges to rot

Associated Press in Lakeland
Monday July 10, 2006
The Guardian


Millions of oranges will rot on the trees of Florida this year because a shortage of fruitpickers has been aggravated by fears about more stringent US immigration laws, local media reported yesterday.
"There's very little doubt we'll leave a significant amount of fruit on the tree," Mike Carlton, the director of production and labour affairs at Florida Citrus Mutual, told the newspaper The Ledger. "Whether that's 3m boxes or 6m boxes, nobody can say."

Full report


We had had the similar here, when different regulations re Polish saisonal workers came into force - it will all sort out, the one or the other way.


It's a hot topic here in Europe as well, see this opinion in todayÄs The Guardian:
Barricades won't stop migration. We have to learn how to manage it
I wish every literate person on planet earth would read the two links Walter posted above (especially the second one). Could the writing on the wall be any clearer? Until we have global standards of treatment for people (a path to which, Walter and I vehemently disagree on) and figure out that all humans are humans and deserve to be treated like humans (a notion I'm confident Walter and I agree on) peace on earth will remain an idealist's dream. On the flip side of that coin; if we can figure out that people, all people, deserve an opportunity to succeed, then don't we have to admit that borders are basically just another form of repression?

You were born on the wrong side of some arbitrary line in the sand as demarcated many years ago; therefore you don't deserve the same opportunities I have. Huh? Is that really the civilized opinion? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 05:18 am
This part really stood me up.
Quote:
Between 1993 and 2004, in an attempt to stop illegal immigrants crossing into the US from Mexico, Congress tripled its spending on border enforcement. The only noticeable effect was that 2,640 people died attempting to enter the country. There was no evidence that the flow of migrants slowed at all.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jul, 2006 06:23 am
Can you name a nation that does not control who will legally live and work inside its borders that provides a standard of living anywhere close to that of the United States? Can you name a nation that does not control its borders that has the luxury of being generous to the rest of the world as we are? Are you willing to fork over the $$$ to pay healthcare, housing, education, and other necessary services for millions or even billions of people when they lack the skills or maybe even the will to work? Or are you willing to cut off all social services to everybody in the name of compassion?

What does it profit us or anybody else if we, even in the name of compassion, indiscriminatley open our borders and make of ourselves another Third World Country? Especially a Third World country in which many or maybe even most have no respect for a common language, obeying the law, or assimilating into a common culture as immigrants before have done? Can't even the most bleeding heart liberals not see the logic in that principle?

Yes a lot of countries would be more than happy if we would take their uneducated, their unskilled, and their scoundrels off their hands. They don't want us to lure away their educated, prosperous, brightest and best as that impacts their own economies, but they're more than happy for us to take care of their poor, unemployed, unemployable, and thugs so they don't need to.

The conservative knows that compassion is not trying to provide people with everything they want. Compassion is often helping people see what they have to do to get what they need. And given that we need a whole lot of the livable parts of our planet to provide a reasonably livable lifestyle for the billions of people living on it, that is going to have to be where they are in most cases.

Are you willing to look at some reasoned arguments from the other side of the issue? I was listening to Walter Williams talk on this issue sometime in the last few days and he referred to the writings of Thomas Sowell on the issue of immigration. So I looked them up yesterday.

Abd here they are. These deal with just about all the points raised in this discussion as well as a critical look at the efforts of Congress to deal with it.

BORDERING ON FRAUD - PART I

BORDERING ON FRAUD - PART 2

BORDERING ON FRAUD - PART 3

These followed a shorter series:

GUESTS OR GATE CRASHERS? - PART 1

GUESTS OR GATE CRASHERS - PART 2

And commentary on it from my other favorite economist: Walter Williams
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/06/immigration.html
0 Replies
 
 

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