Foxfyre wrote:Hey I helped teach citizenship classes for a number of years and was present at the swearing in of most of my students. I guarantee you these people were pledging to be loyal Americans and they were damn proud of it. I'll stand by my statement.
I think you're confusing naturalization with immigration. New citizens pledge allegiance to the flag, often have to demonstrate knowledge of English, yadda yadda yadda. But immigrants don't, and didn't.
Ummm, it is immigrants who are naturalized, sir. Those born to U.S. citizens or born on U.S. soil are already citizens. Other than guest worker programs, which is one of the options on the table, there is little reason to admit immigrants who have no interest in being naturalized. That should not be interpreted that all immigrants go through the process, but those granted permanent residency in the U.S. are believed to have interest in doing so. In my opinion, those granted permanent status should be expected to be working toward citizenship.
Foxfyre wrote:Many in the U.S. feel it has reached its limit now with all the illegals here.
Maybe so, but your question was why I oppose quotas -- and I don't feel this way.
But you live in Germany which is perhaps not overcrowded do you not? How crowded are you willing to be if millions more decide they wish to move there? How much of your own income or wealth are you willing to contribute to the support of those who immigrate to Germany? At what point would you consider the required contribution to be excessive? These are all factors to be considered as we move toward a new or different policy here in the U.S.
Foxfyre wrote:In 1922, the U.S. population was just over 1/3 of what it is now. Don't you think that needs to be considered along with everything else re how many people we can efficiently assimilate? Even with our large land area and considerable resources, one must acknowledge that our capacity is finite.
No I don't. If resources were getting scarce, their market prices would be rising, and they aren't. I see no good reason why the US couldn't feed a billion inhabitants just like China can. Surely there's plenty of thinly settled land in flyover country that could hold lots and lots of extra inhabitants.
So there's your option for the poll. For you, illegal immigration isn't a problem.
Foxfyre wrote:I think that's a bit unrealistic as testified by the growing number of illegals in our jail and prison populations.
As I said: Legalize them, and they won't be illegal anymore.
Ummm, it is immigrants who are naturalized, sir.
But you live in Germany which is perhaps not overcrowded do you not? How crowded are you willing to be if millions more decide they wish to move there? How much of your own income or wealth are you willing to contribute to the support of those who immigrate to Germany? At what point would you consider the required contribution to be excessive? These are all factors to be considered as we move toward a new or different policy here in the U.S.
So there's your option for the poll. For you, illegal immigration isn't a problem.
hey aren't in jail because they're here illegally. They're in jail for committing illegal acts after they get here: all the reasons previously stated earlier today. I certainly do not wish to make grand theft auto, robbery, muggings, murder, rape, etc. etc. etc. legal just yet.
Foxfyre wrote:Ummm, it is immigrants who are naturalized, sir.
Yes, Ma'am, but some immigrants never get naturalized, so never pledge allegiance to the American flag etc. I know, I'm one of them.
But the requirement for permanent status, at least prior to the 1980's, was a requirement to work toward citizenship. That law may have been changed since then, of course, but I rather doubt that it did. Some are granted permanent status without a requirement to work toward citizenship if they are married to a U.S. citizen.
Foxfyre wrote:But you live in Germany which is perhaps not overcrowded do you not? How crowded are you willing to be if millions more decide they wish to move there? How much of your own income or wealth are you willing to contribute to the support of those who immigrate to Germany? At what point would you consider the required contribution to be excessive? These are all factors to be considered as we move toward a new or different policy here in the U.S.
We are more, not less overcrowded than the United States. For comparison, our country is barely larger in size than California is, but contains 80 million inhabitants. As a comfortably well-off professional, my contribution to the maintenance of immigrants is probably above-average for Germans. It would certainly be above-average for America, as the German welfare state is much more generous than America's. No, I don't consider my contribution disproportionate.
I'm sure that is the case with you now. That, however was not my question. How much are you willing to give up of your space, your income, etc. to accommodate many more? Is there a limit to what you would consider an acceptable contribution? These are all hard questions that Americans must answer in order to formulate a solid and effective policy.
Foxfyre wrote:So there's your option for the poll. For you, illegal immigration isn't a problem.
No, Foxfyre -- immigration is not a problem. I think I said very clearly that illegal immigration is a problem -- because the government makes statutory criminals out of people who'd done nothing wrong.
If the U.S. law requires a particular process and procedures for people to enter the country legally, and people are bypassing that process and procedure, how can you say that they have done nothing wrong? Can I just move to Germany and set up housekeeping the same as a German citizen or do you have policies and procedures to follow there too? Do you assume that I would not be breaking the law or 'not doing anything wrong' if I bypass German laws?
Foxfyre wrote:hey aren't in jail because they're here illegally. They're in jail for committing illegal acts after they get here: all the reasons previously stated earlier today. I certainly do not wish to make grand theft auto, robbery, muggings, murder, rape, etc. etc. etc. legal just yet.
What is your evidence that immigrants more likely commit these crimes than natives do? And if you have any, what is your evidence that this is unrelated to their status of being statutory criminals whether they commit a real crime or not?
But you live in Germany which is perhaps not overcrowded do you not? How crowded are you willing to be if millions more decide they wish to move there? How much of your own income or wealth are you willing to contribute to the support of those who immigrate to Germany? At what point would you consider the required contribution to be excessive? These are all factors to be considered as we move toward a new or different policy here in the U.S.
