What should be done about illegal immigration?

Quote:

But if we laid down a minefield all along the border, and posted huge signs on the border attesting to this fact, we wouldn't be hurting anyone. This is our soil and we can do whatever we goddamn well please on our soil; anyone who got blown up trying to cross it has noone to blame but themselves.

Your indiscrimate use of the word "we" is a problem (shared by Foxfyre). I bet that most Americans would strongly object to laying a minefield on the southern border.

Or by "we" you mean the minutemen. They have the right to build walls on private property with the owners permisson, ride in crazy caravans of RV's and insist they aren't racist.

But they don't have the right to lay down minefields.

Are you sure you are a Democrat?

You still didn't tell me your surefire plan to solve the drug problem.

Or did the minefield have something to do with this.

Only the ones who work for me.... iron my clothes, cook my food, take care of my kids, pick my lettuce, clean my toilets and serve my hamburgers. I don't need to charge them, I just take extra taxes from them that I don't need to refund.

Strange thing though, now I have found that they are a part of my life, so much so that I can't live without them.

When I say 'we' I mean legal citizens of the country, who enjoy all the rights, privliges, and responsibilities accorded to citizens in this country.

There is no problem with using the word 'we' in this context, because this is a 'we' issue; us versus them. Legals versus illegals. I would never try to sneak into another country and expect them not to do anything about it! Would you?

The problem with that "we" is that it doesn't mean legal citizens of the country. You are assuming that all legal citizens of the country think as you do. Many of us don't.

And of course, if it was just "us" vs. "them" meaning "legal citizens" vs. "illegal immigrants"... the "illegal immigrants" wouldn't have a chance in hell. We would prevent them from working, keep them out of hospitals, kick their kids out of school. All of these things would be quite possible if all legal citizens agreed. Heck if all legal citizens agreed, there would be nothing to stop us from shooting them.

But if we laid down a minefield all along the border, and posted huge signs on the border attesting to this fact, we wouldn't be hurting anyone. This is our soil and we can do whatever we goddamn well please on our soil; anyone who got blown up trying to cross it has noone to blame but themselves.

How about, anyone we catch, we deport them to an island in the south pacific [..]. Perhaps we could tranquilizer dart them, take all their possesions, and then dump em back in mexico.

getting votes from illegals

cjhsa wrote:

getting votes from illegals

by definition impossible

nimh wrote:

cjhsa wrote:

getting votes from illegals

by definition impossible

Not in San Francisco... and Boston might follow suit....

Cycloptichorn wrote:

But if we laid down a minefield all along the border, and posted huge signs on the border attesting to this fact, we wouldn't be hurting anyone. This is our soil and we can do whatever we goddamn well please on our soil; anyone who got blown up trying to cross it has noone to blame but themselves.

What's your opinion about the wall Israel is building between itself and the Palestine territories, Cyclo? What would it be if that wall were on Israel's border, exactly?

This is a complicated question because it has several different components to it. There is no clear 'border' between Israel and Palestine, at least not one accepted by the Palestinians. So there is a great deal of tension in placing the wall in the first place because the 'border' is under great dispute and involves holy cities.

From a practical standpoint, we can see that Israel has in fact built much of that wall and that terrorist attacks upon their citizens have dropped dramatically. I disagree with much of Israel's actions (and seriously question the logic which lead to it's creation) but the effects of building the wall have been what they desired.

There is zero dispute over where the border lies between the US and Mexico, so the question of where the wall would be built does not apply to us. And, for the record, I completely support whatever countries in the world building whatever defensive fortifications they please.

Also, I'm trying to see how this logic works. Say, I put big signs all around my garden saying: "anyone who enters this garden of mine, I will shoot". Someone walks into it, I shoot him. I wouldnt be hurting anyone?

Actually, in Texas, where I live, it is legal to shoot trespassers upon one's property. In the case you describe, did the intruder break into my garden? Did they jump the wall? Did I place large easy-to-read signs? Did I do everything I could to deter intruders upon my property? Did I attempt to warn the intruder that they were going to be shot using sound and hand motions? If the answers to those questions are yes, then they brought it upon themselves.

If I dig a tiger pit lined with stakes on my property, with big warning signs saying 'do not jump into this goddamn pit,' and someone does it, it isn't my fault. Do you claim that the intruder bears no responsibility for what happens to them while they are trespassing?

Cycloptichorn wrote:

How about, anyone we catch, we deport them to an island in the south pacific [..]. Perhaps we could tranquilizer dart them, take all their possesions, and then dump em back in mexico.

Ehm, ehm ... jesus.

Heh, what the hell are we going to do? Give up? Not me. I refuse to believe that we aren't allowed to have closed borders just because in the past we had a different situation than other countries did.

This is of course an extreme suggestion. As I said earlier in the thread, if we could make an impregnable wall out of pillows, I would fully support that. I don't want to hurt anyone. But when you warn people that there are serious consequences of their actions, and they choose to do them anyways, it is noone's fault but their own.

I think it's pretty easy for people who don't have to deal with the effects of illegal citizens in your society the way we do here in the American south to say that it isn't a serious problem that demands serious and strict solutions, but the fact is that it impacts peoples lives every single day, in personal and drastic ways. All I suggest is shifting the burden of problems to those who are attempting to enter the country illegally from those who have done nothing wrong.

Cheers

Cycloptichorn

Actually, in Texas, where I live, it is legal to shoot trespassers upon one's property. In the case you describe, did the intruder [..] jump the wall? Did I place large easy-to-read signs? Did I do everything I could to deter intruders upon my property? [..] If the answers to those questions are yes, then they brought it upon themselves.

I think it's pretty easy for people who don't have to deal with the effects of illegal citizens in your society the way we do here in the American south to say that it isn't a serious problem that demands serious and strict solutions

nimh, Your example is a good one; our young son stole candy from a store, and the manager called us to let us know what he did; he told our son another boy he would call the police next time. He didn't shoot them dead; thank god.

I consider crossing a border illegally in search for a better life an offense of the law comparable to shoplifting.